Is Community a Part of Your Belief or Faith?

[bobhikes]

Yes but that's not the point. The point is that it is possible to believe in G-d without other people. We agree on this!

Sure if you are insane. Lots of insane people (only) hear the voice of God.

The only was edited in, I realized the wording implied hearing the voice of god as being insane. Only hearing the voice of god is insane.

 

[stvdv]

The isolation from community will drive you crazy. There are plenty of scientific studies that support this.

There is plenty of proof that Saints living in solitude got Self Realized. They finally transcended the biggest craziness "Running like madmen after sex+++"

 

[Rival]

Sure if you are insane. Lots of insane people hear the voice of God.

What are you talking about? This troll attempt is futile and you will soon be on my ignore list for talking nonsense.

 

[bobhikes]

What are you talking about? This troll attempt is futile and you will soon be on my ignore list for talking nonsense.

That's fine, I would like to point out before you ignore me that I edit the text to include only hear the voice of god. As community is defined by me as other humans.

 

[bobhikes]

There is plenty of proof that Saints living in solitude got Self Realized. They finally transcended the biggest craziness "Running like madmen after sex+++"

There's living in solitude and not living with any other humans. Did someone provide there shelter, someone provide there food ...etc. After they were self realized did they share there knowledge with the community.

You can for a period of time live in isolation but at some point depending on the person you will go insane.

 

[Rival]

That's fine, I would like to point out before you ignore me that I edit the text to include only hear the voice of god. As community is defined by me as other humans.

You called people who believe in G-d insane and you talked rubbish, so that's enough.

​

 

[stvdv]

There's living in solitude and not living with any other humans. Did someone provide there shelter, someone provide there food ...etc. After they were self realized did they share there knowledge with the community.

You can for a period of time live in isolation but at some point depending on the person you will go insane.

I did notice your line "Opinions are powerful, they have and still do shape the world. You don't always need facts."
Obviously your reply is not based on facts, this is just your own opinion. I disagree with it.

Definitely it's not true, unless you define "go insane" creatively as "go in sane"

 

[sojourner]

Yes but that's not the point. The point is that it is possible to believe in G-d without other people. We agree on this!

Wait...
Just how did you come to a belief in something you can’t detect through external sensory input? Did you read about it in a book that someone else wrote, someone else published and someone else sold? Did your parents tell you about it? did you see it on a TV show that someone else produced and wrote, transmitted via equipment someone else built to a TV that someone else manufactured? I don’t think it is possible — again, in the grand scheme — to believe in God without other people involved in the process somewhere along the line. it may be a possibility to maintain a belief in such a thing without other people, but probably not possible to formulate such a belief in the first place that is consistent with what what others, also, believe.

 

[sojourner]

There is plenty of proof that Saints living in solitude got Self Realized. They finally transcended the biggest craziness "Running like madmen after sex+++"

How do we know that happened unless, at some point, they shared that realization somehow with a community?

 

[Rival]

Wait...
Just how did you come to a belief in something you can’t detect through external sensory input? Did you read about it in a book that someone else wrote, someone else published and someone else sold? Did your parents tell you about it? did you see it on a TV show that someone else produced and wrote, transmitted via equipment someone else built to a TV that someone else manufactured? I don’t think it is possible — again, in the grand scheme — to believe in God without other people involved in the process somewhere along the line. it may be a possibility to maintain a belief in such a thing without other people, but probably not possible to formulate such a belief in the first place that is consistent with what what others, also, believe.

In my belief system, G-d reveals Himself to some who then pass the message. Or to large groups, such as the Hebrews/Israelites. So yes, it is possible in my worldview to come to believe in G-d without needing other people. I'm not sure what your view is on this, but this is mine.

 

[sojourner]

In my belief system, G-d reveals Himself to some who then pass the message. Or to large groups, such as the Hebrews/Israelites. So yes, it is possible in my worldview to come to believe in G-d without needing other people. I'm not sure what your view is on this, but this is mine.

So, how was the message passed to you? By internal revelation? If so, how do you think that’s possible for your internal revelation to closely match that of others? Especially given that internal revelation comes in the form of metaphor, which is driven by cultural imagery?

 

[Rival]

So, how was the message passed to you? By internal revelation? If so, how do you think that’s possible for your internal revelation to closely match that of others? Especially given that internal revelation comes in the form of metaphor, which is driven by cultural imagery?

The message was passed to me by others, as I have mentioned in my previous response; then, as you correctly stated, one does not need others to continue in the belief. I, however, believe in a G-d that reveals Himself, so it would be entirely possible for Him to reveal Himself to me without my needing other people. So for me this could go either way. Therefore it still follows that my belief system does not require other people, at G-d's discretion; such as how he revealed himself to Avraham and others.

 

[sojourner]

The message was passed to me by others, as I have mentioned in my previous response; then, as you correctly stated, one does not need others to continue in the belief. I, however, believe in a G-d that reveals Himself, so it would be entirely possible for Him to reveal himself to me without my needing other people. So for me this could go either way. So it still follows that my belief system does not require other people, at G-d's discretion; such as how he revealed himself to Avraham and others.

Fair enough.

 

[SalixIncendium]

IOW, “I clearly did not win the argument, so I’m going to blame it all on you, pick up my marbles, and go home.”

If that helps you sleep better at night.

I’m “stubbornly injecting” dictionary definitions so we can all come to a clear understanding of what we’re talking about. If you don’t want to be clear, that’s your problem, not mine.

Both terms were clearly defined previously for the purpose of this thread. If you are unclear about how I am defining them, ask me, don't tell me. I'm responsible for what I post, not for what you understand.

A society is, by definition, community. So your argument that we’re talking about society, not community is a bogus argument.

I think @Rival did a very nice job correcting your error in her post here:

A community is a subset of a society... so of course society and community are tied together in this way, but not the same thing.

Repeating the same error does not make it any more correct.

My intention here is to get the OP to see the bigger picture of what constitutes community, because I think that, that way, the poster might be able to better answer her/his own question.

I can assure you that the OP has a clear understanding of what constitutes community.

I’m not sure, in the grand scheme, that we are able to separate our beliefs from a world view that clearly includes other people.

I never suggested otherwise.

 

[SalixIncendium]

How do you define community? For me it could be a family, a club, or a religion and I have a very loose definition for family.

Please refer to this post on how I'm defining community for the purpose of this thread: Is Community a Part of Your Belief or Faith?

 

[SalixIncendium]

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You have some need of community. You aren't a hermit all the time.

In real life, outside of work, I am.

And while I do participate here, I'm not here for the purpose of gathering and sharing with those who have shared my experiences or, as a result, have a similar worldview or belief structure, though I have enjoyed and learned from the discourse I've had with them. There are likely no more than a handful here that actually know what I hold to be true as far as spirituality is concerned beyond 'nondualism,' because I tend not to speak about it unless asked directly.

 

[SalixIncendium]

The isolation from community will drive you crazy. There are plenty of scientific studies that support this.

 

[stvdv]

How do we know that happened unless, at some point, they shared that realization somehow with a community?

That has nothing to do with my reply.
That has to do with a discussion you are having with Rival.

 

[Rival]

I swear I should be paid for posting here, because G-d knows it's hard work sometimes.

 

[sojourner]

That has nothing to do with my reply.
That has to do with a discussion you are having with Rival.

Yes it does. You mentioned “saints living in solitude.” My comment shows that, at some point, solitude must be ended in order for anyone else to know whether the saint had attained what you claim. Solitude only goes so far.