Is Ayn Rand the McDonald's Hamburger of American Philosophers?

[Sunstone]

Consider Ayn Rand's notion of human nature... "Objectivism rejects any form of determinism... Man is a rational being..." Can such a medieval notion of human nature be informed by science?

It seems to me that, to embrace Rand's notion of human nature, you must turn your back on science. You must deny or ignore what is known to psychology, to neuroscience, to neurochemistry, to biophysics, to physics, etc., -- you must somehow reduce that huge body of science to Rand's mumbo jumbo of "volitional consciousness".

So, is Rand's reduction of science to nonsense the work of a serious thinker? I suppose that might depend on whether you require of your "serious thinkers" that their notions at least be compatible with established science. But why wouldn't you?

 

[Smoke]

Privately, between you and me, I don't either. She's too superficial. Middle-school. But I don't consider McDonald's a real hamburger, either.

I remember when they opened the first Burger King in Sheboygan, and my grandparents wanted to go see what it was all about. My grandfather embarrassed my grandmother, my brother and me by directing a loud stream of profanity toward the poor girl at the register, beginning with, "You call this a hamburger?" And a Burger King hamburger is gourmet fare compared to McDonald's.

Each year, she sells more copies of her books than any other American philosopher.

In that case, it's probably fair to say that she is indeed the McDonald's hamburger of American philosophers.

 

[Smoke]

So, is Rand's reduction of science to nonsense the work of a serious thinker? I suppose that might depend on whether you require of your "serious thinkers" that their notions at least be compatible with established science. But why wouldn't you?

A serious thinker may not be up to date on science, but should at least be amenable to correction by actual facts. Rand seems to me to be as dogmatic as any Christian sect.

 

[Kerr]

Five Ayn Rand fans on a train .

 

[Kerr]

As of the subject, Ayn Rand is that popular? Do not like her ideas myself, and I find them to be a bit intolerant and sometimes extreme.

 

[Buttons*]

McDonald's isn't the best hamburger, but it's the most popular. Ayn Rand isn't the best philosopher, but she's the most popular. But did she ever say anything truly profound? If so, what was it?

I think she's just a character of interest - and probably just for "Right Wingers". Ayn Rand is only "popular" in the States. Even then, I don't know anyone who had even heard of her - except for my father. He's into business, so that makes sense that he would read her philosophy, and enjoy it. *shrug* But honestly, no one else has ever talked about her with me, unless it was to say that she was stupid or evil.... but that they'd never read her books. *LOL*

Anyway, I don't really care. I'd say there's a lot of pseudo-philosophy out there. Ayn Rand is not the bottom of the barrel for philosophers, I can tell you that for sure. I've always thought the most popular American philosopher would be Thomas Paine. (Even though he's originally English)

Perhaps people are purchasing Ayn Rand for differing reasons than people LOVING her philosophy. I doubt a ton of people really enjoy her works. I don't enjoy them all that much... she's on par with Marx in terms of idealism imo. Just because they're entertaining and idealistic doesn't make them good or bad.... but it doesn't make them McDonalds.

For McDonalds philosophy, you'd need something bland. If you want bland and popular.... well, "The Secret" is a pretty good place to start.

 

[YmirGF]

For McDonalds philosophy, you'd need something bland. If you want bland and popular.... well, "The Secret" is a pretty good place to start.

Now that is an almost perfect comparrison, Ash. Well done. Btw: I agree with your sentiments about Rand too. Spot on, really.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I pretty much assumed that objectivism, like communism, was an ideology that appealed primarily to people of certain personality types in their teens and early-20's - it's basically something that you outgrow as your worldview becomes more developed and mature. I would simultaneously pity and fear someone who held objectivism as a serious "philosophy," as an adult. I'd have to wonder what their damage was.

 

[MissAlice]

I pretty much assumed that objectivism, like communism, was an ideology that appealed primarily to people of certain personality types in their teens and early-20's - it's basically something that you outgrow as your worldview becomes more developed and mature. I would simultaneously pity and fear someone who held objectivism as a serious "philosophy," as an adult. I'd have to wonder what their damage was.

Very well said.

 

[Sunstone]

I pretty much assumed that objectivism, like communism, was an ideology that appealed primarily to people of certain personality types in their teens and early-20's - it's basically something that you outgrow as your worldview becomes more developed and mature. I would simultaneously pity and fear someone who held objectivism as a serious "philosophy," as an adult. I'd have to wonder what their damage was.

Authoritarian personality types?

 

[dust1n]

Your opinion is most instructive. Thank you for your time.

My opinion on Ayn Rand is about as instructive as Ayn Rand is on any of her opinions. Example:

"If concern for human poverty and suffering were one’s primary motive, one would seek to discover their cause. One would not fail to ask: Why did some nations develop, while others did not? Why have some nations achieved material abundance, while others have remained stagnant in subhuman misery? History and, specifically, the unprecedented prosperity-explosion of the nineteenth century, would give an immediate answer: capitalism is the only system that enables men to produce abundance—and the key to capitalism is individual freedom."

:YAAaAWWNN:

Capitalism is the only system that enables men to produce abundance, really...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

To compare her to a McDonalds hamburger: both are cheap, both are not very filling, and at times, both make me kinda sick to my stomach. Not very original or satisfying either.

 

[Buttons*]

To compare her to a McDonalds hamburger: both are cheap, both are not very filling, and at times, both make me kinda sick to my stomach. Not very original or satisfying either.

You don't think she's original at all? I've never read any works that are similar to hers in terms of her idealisms.... perhaps you could fill me in? And don't be dissing the McRib.... even though I've never had one....

 

[yossarian22]

I'd hardly describe her trashy writing as philosophy.

Objectivism states that you should act for your own benefit. Objectivism provides the most benefit for perfect beings (defined by Galt). As an imperfect being it is not in my interest to believe in objectivism. I should therefore not believe in objectivism.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You don't think she's original at all? I've never read any works that are similar to hers in terms of her idealisms....

Not really. Her ideas of acting on your own, for your own benefit, can be traced back further than Objectivism.

 

[Apion]

Regardless of Rand's quirks reading up on Objectivism, especially Peikoff's works, is a great aid for organizing one's thinking.

Still, I really love the McDonald's analogy. :coffee2:

 

[Mr Cheese]

McDonald's isn't the best hamburger, but it's the most popular. Ayn Rand isn't the best philosopher, but she's the most popular. But did she ever say anything truly profound? If so, what was it?

she said selfishness is a goosd thing...

thats truly profound for selfish people

:flirt:

 

[dust1n]

I just wanted to state at this point, that Ayn Rand was extremely wealthy and popular, because she willed it to happen. Her hard work and determination, along with her character traits allowed her to come out on top. As far as all of those poorer people, well, they just weren't as great as her. Mind you they started off in the world with the exact set of circumstances, which is why we are able to judge people by their circumstance later in the road.

 

[Smoke]

And don't be dissing the McRib.... even though I've never had one....

I've had one, or part of one. I couldn't finish it. It is to pork what Chicken McNuggets are to chicken.

 

[Humanistheart]

McDonald's isn't the best hamburger, but it's the most popular. Ayn Rand isn't the best philosopher, but she's the most popular. But did she ever say anything truly profound? If so, what was it?

I've never even heard of her.