Did I say that?
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Yonatan not being a Savior to Israel supports the name Yeshuah means God saves because only God is described as a Savior in the Bible.
So you make up things I did not say, and continue arguing with yourself. Enjoy.
When I said
1 Samuel 14:15 doesn't say that Jonathan was ultimately the one who delivered the people.
You said
It does, actually. Yonatan saved Israel that day.
Post 1158
rosends
Well-Known Member
You say "only God saves."
You don't say "saves what" and yet the text says thaat Yonatan saved using the word (yeshuah) you say is reserved for God. If you would like, you can revise your initial claim and clarify what you are limiting to God. Remember, on that day in Samuel, Yonatan "made salvation in Israel."
I meant only God is a Savior. the text says that Yonatan saved using the word yeshuah but it doesn't say that Yonatan is a Savior.
What you've done is capitalize the word savior. Yonatan was a savior. That's what the text says. The text uses the Hebrew word for salvation. If God is the only one who can save, why would the text use the same word for Yonatan as well?
Since we're reminding one another of posts, here's you at 1160:
That's different from saying that Yonatan was a Savior to Israel.
and me at 1161:Did I say that?
and you at 1162:Yonatan not being a Savior to Israel supports the name Yeshuah means God saves because only God is described as a Savior in the Bible.
Yonatan did things that saved Israel but that doesn't mean that he was ultimately was the one who saved them. The text uses the Hebrew word for salvation in connection to Yonatan but that's different from saying that he was ultimately the one who saved Israel.
So what did Yonatan do?
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
If he didn't say what he means, his words can't be trusted.
He said to hate your parents to compel people to follow him. That's what he said in context.
This is reflected across multiple gospel stories.
God used Yonatan as a vessel to save Israel but ultimately it was God who saved Israel.
So why was the word Yeshuah used about Yonatan?
The context of what Jesus was saying was a metaphor. What did Jesus mean when He instructed us to hate our father and mother (Luke 14:26)? | GotQuestions.org
That is reflected by Jesus saying to take up your cross and follow him.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
No, you're writing your own scripture. Your version is better. Your words are holier than what Jesus said. Well done.
His actions helped to save Israel but he ultimately wasn't the one who saved them.
So why was the word Yeshuah used about Yonatan?
rosends
Well-Known Member
@Skywalker
"The text uses the Hebrew word for salvation in connection to Yonatan but that's different from saying that he was ultimately the one who saved Israel."
How is it different? Who decides that it is different? Why is it different?
If the text uses the same word to refer to God doing the same thing why do you insist that there is difference?
"The text uses the Hebrew word for salvation in connection to Yonatan but that's different from saying that he was ultimately the one who saved Israel."
How is it different? Who decides that it is different? Why is it different?
If the text uses the same word to refer to God doing the same thing why do you insist that there is difference?
The word Yeshuah was used about Yonatan but that's different from saying he was Yeshuah.
The text didn't call Yonatan Yeshuah. That would be calling him a Savior. Only the Messiah saves.