Is a meaningless universe enough of a reason to adopt a religion?

[Thief]

Of course. Anything can happen.

Humans never have access to 100% knowledge. So we assess likelyhoods as best we can and live by that.

As I said earlier, the scenario you describe is possible but, to me it looks very, very, very, ......., very unlikely.

and you have a better scenario

something more likely?

 

[Tabu]

I think the meaning of life is to live peacefully and to let others live peaceful , and this is possible only if there are some guidelines which all have to adhere to , and this is why all the great souls and their teachings are for.
But some mischief creeps in by which people distort these teachings and create confusions.

 

[Thief]

I think the meaning of life is to live peacefully and to let others live peaceful , and this is possible only if there are some guidelines which all have to adhere to , and this is why all the great souls and their teachings are for.
But some mischief creeps in by which people distort these teachings and create confusions.

how about....?

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you

 

[Tabu]

how about....?

Do unto others as you have them do unto you

Like that ,
"When I do good I feel good . When I do bad I feel bad. That is my religion." Abraham Lincoln.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

If you believed that the truth of the universe was that it was meaningless and that human life was a mere accident is this a good enough reason to try and adopt a different set of beliefs? Is It enough of a reason that someone who thinks all this is depressing and that existing would at least be a little bit better with belief in god even if that god doesn't exist to try and believe in a god?

You could argue that belief in a god or anything supernatural won't help if it's forced. I would have to argue that I've seen people who at the very least live a better life on the outside when they pretend. And I do know a few pretenders. What exactly would be the point in affirming nihilism and a meaningless universe? If these things are truly meaningless then why not adopt something that might make you feel better?

Just a question that's popped into my head Is all.

I'd say that 'preference' for a belief cuts both ways, there can be a certain comfort and intellectual gratification, in believing in purely spontaneous, naturalistic forces governing everything.

 

[Twilight Hue]

If you believed that the truth of the universe was that it was meaningless and that human life was a mere accident is this a good enough reason to try and adopt a different set of beliefs? Is It enough of a reason that someone who thinks all this is depressing and that existing would at least be a little bit better with belief in god even if that god doesn't exist to try and believe in a god?

You could argue that belief in a god or anything supernatural won't help if it's forced. I would have to argue that I've seen people who at the very least live a better life on the outside when they pretend. And I do know a few pretenders. What exactly would be the point in affirming nihilism and a meaningless universe? If these things are truly meaningless then why not adopt something that might make you feel better?

Just a question that's popped into my head Is all.

No need for pretending. The universe already works. We are here. Our composition is ancient and timeless making us ancient and timeless.

I find that religion is not really all that nessessary when you take into consideration that the universe can be and is, mysterious and bizarre enough as it stands.

I can't speak for others but I'd prefer not to settle and pretend that something is there when in fact it's clearly not in any givin context.

 

[fi11222]

and you have a better scenario

something more likely?

Not necessarily a "better" one in the sense that it is more pleasant. But a more likely one certainly. Based on what we know from the historical and ethnological study of religion, it is highly likely that religious practice is a form of masturbatory behavior (as I argued in another thread). Since the evidence for that scenario is now quite overwhelming, it makes sense for us to take it into account when making our life choices.

 

[Thief]

Not necessarily a "better" one in the sense that it is more pleasant. But a more likely one certainly. Based on what we know from the historical and ethnological study of religion, it is highly likely that religious practice is a form of masturbatory behavior (as I argued in another thread). Since the evidence for that scenario is now quite overwhelming, it makes sense for us to take it into account when making our life choices.

your thinking symptom

I was asking real life scenario
non-belief leads to a grave....a dead end...literally

that your scenario?

 

[sealchan]

Our meaning in life comes from many sources. Certainly we prefer that which works to give us a sense of value or meaning. This isn't masturbation but the simple act of assessing value.

One way of understanding truth is that truth works in the context of the knower who contemplates or assesses it. In some ways that truth may or may not be appreciated personally, but if it works then it deserves it's portion of "truthiness".

Another way is that it makes us feel good, it gives us strength, it helps us take on suffering or new challenges. It's provability may not be as strong as it's usefulness or motivational strength. But what is often needed is what is useful to ourselves and not some abstract statement of truth that has no apparent personal application

For obvious reasons this can seem to open the door to much that is self-service...And it does. However, I think that door has always been open and closing it was never an option. Subjective truth is a personal and cultural responsibility that requires on-going effort to maintain and improve as our personal and collective need for meaning changes over time.

That is where our authors, artists and musicians come in. They are the muses of our current cultural need for meaning. Our religion or faith should be nurtured by our artists.

 

[fi11222]

non-belief leads to a grave....a dead end...literally

that your scenario?

I have belief, faith even. But not in God as he is traditionally depicted. That language no longer works. It was beautiful and did a lot of good but there is no point in hanging on to it now that it is discredited.

The fact is that all the stories about the One God of the Bible no longer impress us. They are no longer able to drive us in the right direction as they once did because the worldview they are based on is now too far from us. In a way these stories succeeded so well that they transformed us into a new humanity. They really saved us and uplifted us. But in the process they became obsolete. We have to face this honestly and move on.

What the Bible taught us is still alive. We just have to reformulate it in another way and that is indeed what I am trying to do.

The basis of the Biblical message is man's sinful nature, i.e. the reason why he needs to be saved from the anger of a righteous God. This idea is fundamentally sound. We need to hear that we are worthless scumbags. Otherwise our sucesses (i.e. "the mercy of God") inevitably turns our minds to hubris. There is no way out. Our big problem is that we are no longer impressed by the word "sin". Even the most apparently devout Christian today is not really impressed. I am talking from experience. Therefore we need to reformulate the idea of sin in some kind of wording that does impress us.

This is what I am trying to do when I say that we all masturbate. Religion is masturbation but there are many other things which are too and often with far worse side effects than those of religion (think of Communism, Nazismn Jihadism). "We are all jerking off" is, I think, the best possible translation of "we are all sinners".

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I'd find people's concerns about a finite life being meaningless if they actually spent the life they do have doing more than watching TV and scratching their butts.

 

[Revoltingest]

If you believed that the truth of the universe was that it was meaningless and that human life was a mere accident is this a good enough reason to try and adopt a different set of beliefs? Is It enough of a reason that someone who thinks all this is depressing and that existing would at least be a little bit better with belief in god even if that god doesn't exist to try and believe in a god?

You could argue that belief in a god or anything supernatural won't help if it's forced. I would have to argue that I've seen people who at the very least live a better life on the outside when they pretend. And I do know a few pretenders. What exactly would be the point in affirming nihilism and a meaningless universe? If these things are truly meaningless then why not adopt something that might make you feel better?

Just a question that's popped into my head Is all.

I don't need the universe to provide me with meaning.
Doing what I want is enuf.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

and where else would i be?

Somewhere else. How the heck would you know?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Sure. I often feel like that, when my clinical depression bleeds over into existential depression. I kind of feel like that right now. Life is not "fun" to many of us and "having a beer" doesn't take the pain away. Some of the posts in this thread read like oblivious, callous codswallop. Um, good for your privileged *** for having such a nice life while others suffer?

 

[Rival]

No. One would only be hiding behind a façade. Just accept that generic you can't believe in a god and accept the meaninglessness of life.

 

[Thief]

I have belief, faith even. But not in God as he is traditionally depicted. That language no longer works. It was beautiful and did a lot of good but there is no point in hanging on to it now that it is discredited.

The fact is that all the stories about the One God of the Bible no longer impress us. They are no longer able to drive us in the right direction as they once did because the worldview they are based on is now too far from us. In a way these stories succeeded so well that they transformed us into a new humanity. They really saved us and uplifted us. But in the process they became obsolete. We have to face this honestly and move on.

What the Bible taught us is still alive. We just have to reformulate it in another way and that is indeed what I am trying to do.

The basis of the Biblical message is man's sinful nature, i.e. the reason why he needs to be saved from the anger of a righteous God. This idea is fundamentally sound. We need to hear that we are worthless scumbags. Otherwise our sucesses (i.e. "the mercy of God") inevitably turns our minds to hubris. There is no way out. Our big problem is that we are no longer impressed by the word "sin". Even the most apparently devout Christian today is not really impressed. I am talking from experience. Therefore we need to reformulate the idea of sin in some kind of wording that does impress us.

This is what I am trying to do when I say that we all masturbate. Religion is masturbation but there are many other things which are too and often with far worse side effects than those of religion (think of Communism, Nazismn Jihadism). "We are all jerking off" is, I think, the best possible translation of "we are all sinners".

and for the most part....I agree

and to compare religion to an 'urge' that requires repeated gesture of the hand....
you are correct

but to influence the mind of your fellow man....I suggest
taking aim at his head
rather than his hand

I have noted many times the word sin....as a Spanish word
it means.... without

and to live without God is to live in sin
you need not be ignorant of the bible for that to happen
you need not be a lawbreaker for that to happen
you might even good things continually.....and it can still happen

there are many who do good things...even in the Name of the Lord....and He knows them not
(so it is written)

 

[fi11222]

but to influence the mind of your fellow man....I suggest
taking aim at his head
rather than his hand

Masturbation is chiefly in the head, through porn/fantasies. The hand is just the visible sign.

"You are all sinners" was a salutary blow to the head. And I belive that "you all jerk off" can be too.

I am glad you agree.

 

[Thief]

Masturbation is chiefly in the head, through porn/fantasies. The hand is just the visible sign.

"You are all sinners" was a salutary blow to the head. And I belive that "you all jerk off" can be too.

I am glad you agree.

yeah but......my agreement is not colored by your sense of wordplay

 

[fi11222]

yeah but......my agreement is not colored by your sense of wordplay

Sure. Yet agreement is valuable, even if not complete.

 

[fantome profane]

I'd find people's concerns about a finite life being meaningless if they actually spent the life they do have doing more than watching TV and scratching their butts.

Don't judge my lifestyle!