firedragon
Veteran Member
What do you like about it personally?
Its a tool to mock.
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What do you like about it personally?
I didn't seem to bother Amanaki. There is a place in the Bible that also says "If God wills" - but those are in every day situations.
Oh, they were mocking Islam (or attempting to) by showing that song? I don't get it. Maybe they were mocking themselves like "Haha, you all know me, and wouldn't it be funny if I thought this song was my favorite song", but I don't know them, so its like "oh ok". Maybe then they were like "no, no, I don't really like the song, you see, if you knew me, you would know that there is no way that a song like that is my favorite song", and I'd say "Oh, yeah, but I don't know you, so I just assumed you were telling the truth, something about yourself, the first I've heard of you actually", and they could be like "Well, that was a lie, it wasn't true", and I might be like "So all we know about you so far is that you don't like the song you said was your favorite", "Yes".
"So what was that all about?", "I guess I'm just really bored, and I wanted to get in on the action in this thread, so I typed in "Insha'Allah into the Youtube search engine and that video came up, and I thought it would be funny to post that here and maybe get in on the conversation", "that is great, but have you noticed that I'm actually doing most of the typing for you, and you have actually said very little yourself?" "Yes, I realize that, I've actually said none of this myself, it has all been you talking as if you are me", "Does that happen often to you? That people end up just creating dialogue for you since they know so little about you and the only thing you might say about yourself are things which aren't even true or accurate?", "Actually no, most people don't speak as if they are me, I don't have that many conversations in a day, and the ones I do have are sort of boring and miserable to be honest", "That sounds terribly sad, do you find that you end up talking to yourself a lot?" "No, not at all really", "So this is the most you've typed in a while", "I guess it is, yeah, and thank you for helping me get all that off my chest", "It is my pleasure really".
Where in the Bible do you get "I know what God wills"?
I just explained it to you.
free will Dictionary:
1. The mental faculty by which one deliberately chooses or decides upon a course of action: championed freedom ofwill against a doctrine of predetermination.
2.
a. Diligent purposefulness; determination: an athlete with the will to win.3. A desire, purpose, or determination, especially of one in authority: It is the sovereign's will that the prisoner bespared.
b. Self-control; self-discipline: lacked the will to overcome the addiction.
4. Deliberate intention or wish: Let it be known that I took this course of action against my will.
5. Free discretion; inclination or pleasure: wandered about, guided only by will.
6. Bearing or attitude toward others; disposition: full of good will.
7.
a. A legal declaration of how a person wishes his or her possessions to be disposed of after death.Any time it matches any of the above... it is God's will
b. A legally executed document containing this declaration.
I gave you an example:My question was where in the Bible does it say you know what God wills?
I gave you an example:
To quote again:
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
There are many such statements.
\Luke 10:37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
If He gives a command... then that is His will
and so on and so one. If you read the scriptures, you can find plenty of them.
I just explained it to you.
free will Dictionary:
1. The mental faculty by which one deliberately chooses or decides upon a course of action: championed freedom ofwill against a doctrine of predetermination.
2.
a. Diligent purposefulness; determination: an athlete with the will to win.3. A desire, purpose, or determination, especially of one in authority: It is the sovereign's will that the prisoner bespared.
b. Self-control; self-discipline: lacked the will to overcome the addiction.
4. Deliberate intention or wish: Let it be known that I took this course of action against my will.
5. Free discretion; inclination or pleasure: wandered about, guided only by will.
6. Bearing or attitude toward others; disposition: full of good will.
7.
a. A legal declaration of how a person wishes his or her possessions to be disposed of after death.Any time it matches any of the above... it is God's will
b. A legally executed document containing this declaration.
Hi, I'm the other person who was in this thread earlier and had asked you some things and you explained them to me, thank you for the explanation. Fire Dragon is another person, but my display picture is also hot looking. I read what you wrote here, and most people in the world seem to believe in what they call "free will" and believe that it is important somehow. Can you show me some verses that you are familiar with which emphasize and confirm the existence of true "free will" according to the Bible and if that is ever interfered with or anything?
I am of a very small minority of people in the world who one way or another deny the existence of true free will, though I can't deny the apparent impression of free will, because we seem to make decisions and all that and it appears to us "we could have done something else" even though we didn't and probably really couldn't have since with identical conditions an identical result may be expected due to identical influences that moment.
So for me, in some ways, since I am a theist and believe in an active living powerful intelligence behind everything, I say that everything whatsoever is "God's will" however terrible it may seem to be, and thus God's will can not be in any way reasonably considered omnibenevolent or favorable to all people based on our opinion of the outcomes involved.
So, and I'm sorry if I seem a little confused, but maybe this could help clarify it even further for, could you explain in the simplest fashion possible (like you might to a person who is of little understanding and language ability), the difference between my notion that "Everything whatsoever is God's will" and what is excluded in your version from God's will? I suspect what you are maybe at least excluding are the thoughts and actions of human beings? Is there anything else you are excluding? Could you list everything that is God's will or if it is easier, everything that is not God's will and why you think so or how you came to such an understanding or what in the scriptures you prefer or believe in it seemed to say so and why you prefer to believe such or how it matches up to your experience of reality?
The reason I don't believe in true and actual free will for human beings is for a number of reasons, but one of the main reasons why it seems so solidly true for me is my thinking back about things, thinking back on decisions, on mistakes, or achievements, and when I think about these things, it seems to lead to a whole chain of events and conditions which I didn't put into play, and if even one piece of the puzzle was missing or a domino didn't fall the exact way it did, everything could have been different or a different decision might be made or a different thing might have popped into the mind that moment and so a person says or does something different, and it all seems pretty much, when I think about it, really not truly anyone's fault how the rain falls and where it falls and who it falls on and when, and what that does, and what that leads to.
So, most people don't seem to believe or think to themselves or have the personal understanding that every little rain drop and where it falls and who it falls on, is deliberately orchestrated and generated by God with a purposeful intent, and that such has any influence on them (making God responsible for every detail of an experience), but rather, it seems most people think that things are just put into play, or happening somehow, and that there is a "sharing" going on, a kind of co-creating, where everyone and everything is participating in generating the experience somehow or contributing by their own force and will and thoughts and energy, and that God is, if anything, mainly a remote witness to this, and does not make the rain drop specifically fall here or there, but may have invented rain at some point, and then let it loose, for Chaos or Luck or Chance or Probability or Nature or any other name to linguistically be considered the responsible agent for this or that to happen the way it.
My views are very simple, they are that God is whatever is actually doing it all, and so there is only God, and God's Will is the only true Free Will, unconditioned, baseless, generating things as obscure and uncalled for as air and noses and butterflies and whatever else, and our opinions of them as well, and emotions, and whatever other weird stuff, ex nihilo, right now, moment to moment (occasionalism), and we are within God in a sense (panentheism), and God can freely think up anything to seem this way or that in a moment, even an entire history we completely believe occurred and of which there seems to be ample evidence for, just in that moment (Berkeley's Idealism).
Yes you DO have a great avatar!! And I would be happy to offer my view. I hope I am clear and let me know if I need to clarify.
Of course, we could always go in a circle by saying "I decided not to do this" and say - you were destined to say that. And then say "Well then, I will do it to prove you wrong" and we would respond by saying "you were destined to change your mind"
But looking at the Bible and its perspective, I would offer the following:
1) Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
There are 62 references of choosing in the TaNaKh (the Old Testament)
I can't conceive that one can "choose" if one does not have a free will.
2) Then you have various scriptures that basically say this: 1 Tim 2:
3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior,
4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
If God wants all people to come to the knowledge of truth, how can there be people who don't unless they have a choice?
So examples like these abound.
So, if you just read what Jesus did, you will find that all he did was destroy the works of the devil. So by the nature of destroying the works of the devil, it sets apart the reality that there are some things that are of God and some things that are not.
Sometimes people asked, "If you want to, you can..." How can you want to unless you have a choice? Or he would ask, "what do you want?" a question that is a choice.
LOL... It would be hard to make a list of "everything". But here is a few, unless you give me a particular question. I am giving one scripture but there are more.
We are not excluded from difficulty be we are included in be delivered from them. John 16:33
As mentioned before, it isn't God's will that any should perish (scripture already mentioned)
We cannot be delivered from dying... we are all going to die. (Heb 9:27)
He doesn't want you to worry, but you have a choice to do it (Luke 12: 22-34)
He wants people healed Luke 9:2
If you gave me something in particular, I would let you know.
PS... He doesn't care what color car you buy, what type of clothes you wear, and whether or not you like peanut butter
yes, there is a domino effect on things and there is a cause and effect that sometimes happen. But, when God is in the picture, He changes everything. So, you might have a lemon in your life and He can change it into a lemonade.
Then, (since I believe there are demon spirits as Jesus and Paul said), have you ever considered sometimes what is happening IS a planned series of event unless you know how to stop it and turn things around it comes to pass?
Yes... there are people that believe that. Personally, I do believe in personal will. I remember when Jesus was surprise that he COULDN'T do any miracles though he wanted to, but he put the blame of the people's choice.
Ok. I would say it this way... there are certain things that ARE going to happen period because He knows that it will come to pass because of people's nature. But those are exceptions rather than a rule.
Well... that is my perspective. Hopefully something to think about. Keep what you like and throw out what you don't and ask any question you want.
I'm going to open a different thread since I think we are derailing the OP.That was a great and very thorough answer, I think it satisfies me and I believe in that sort of choice, the choices you listed there as being choices available to us, like saying "choose your God, I choose The Lord" and stuff like that.
Your writing brought up some things that are more interesting to me than free will though (as it is a sort of dead end topic anyway for reasons you mentioned and how it can end up going in circles). Of more interest to me are:
1. Who is the Lord,
2. who are the Other Gods or Options,
3. How does one choose or prove they have chosen the Lord,
4. who is the Devil,
5. what are the works of the Devil,
6. how were the works of the Devil revealed or exposed and
7. how were they destroyed,
8. what are demons exactly,
9. what is the form/appearance/activities of the Devil and of the demons,
10. what happens to people who choose gods other than the Lord you described above,
11. how do we know we are dealing with the Lord and not some imposter or that it is right,
12. what form do the demons take today and how are they followed or worshipped or harming people today and
13. how did they do so in the past in comparison,
14. is there only a particular name of God that is appropriate to use or consider or can other names be used (like the names used by Amorites),
15. is it the concept we have in our mind that counts or our activities or ritual performances or name we use or what exactly counts to indicate our party/choice,
16. how do we live a good life,
17. what happens after we die and why do you think so,
18. how do we attain a good afterlife,
19. what benefit is choosing the Lord (what do I get out of it, how do I know, and what if anything do you think the Lord gets out of it?),
free will Dictionary:
1. The mental faculty by which one deliberately chooses or decides upon a course of action: championed freedom ofwill against a doctrine of predetermination.
2.
a. Diligent purposefulness; determination: an athlete with the will to win.
b. Self-control; self-discipline: lacked the will to overcome the addiction.
3. A desire, purpose, or determination, especially of one in authority: It is the sovereign's will that the prisoner bespared.
4. Deliberate intention or wish: Let it be known that I took this course of action against my will.
5. Free discretion; inclination or pleasure: wandered about, guided only by will.
6. Bearing or attitude toward others; disposition: full of good will.
7.
a. A legal declaration of how a person wishes his or her possessions to be disposed of after death.
b. A legally executed document containing this declaration.
There seems to be another side to this though, in that it should be termed Limited Free-will. Limited and thus not in actuality Free given the limited choices each circumstance presents.....limited awareness limits the exercise of free-will.
should that not be a more promising direction to investigate further, or is it prudent to hash over the same intel that so far hasn't cracked the case open yet..?
the reducing valve analogy [Huxley] appliesYeah, like even if people think they can choose, they can't just walk through walls or defy all the limitations or make Walmart have something Walmart doesn't even have. They also don't seem to choose what pops up into their minds or even know exactly how it does in every case.