Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That depends upon who you are talking to, a Jew or a Christian.The suffering servant is not the messiah, but Israel.
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That depends upon who you are talking to, a Jew or a Christian.The suffering servant is not the messiah, but Israel.
And Jews have been wrong about Jesus for over 2000 years. Imo.Right. Christians have been wrong about this for 2000 years.
Not sure what you mean by hell. Furthermore, if you say you can't believe what someone wrote thousands of years ago as part of the tanach, then you can't believe what Moses and the prophets wrote either.Because you can't take someone from thousands of years before an event and say that it is the same event.
As for my personal beliefs, I take no stance on an afterlife. It is utterly irrelevant to me. I obey God simply because he is God and worthy of my love and obedience. Not to gain heaven and escape hell.
So if a person believes what was written about that, then he believes Jesus arose from...the dead. And spoke to some. And arose and went to heaven after some days.I assume form the New Testament gospels that say that Jesus rose form the dead.
We all have our own interpretations of scriptures. Christians believe Daniel 7:13-14 is about Jesus and Baha’is believe they are about Baha’u’llah. Now I am hearing that Jews believe that that these verses are about Israel when it is obvious they are referring to a man.The "one like unto a son of man" refers to the nation of Israel, not to the messiah.
Even if none of the Jewish and Christian interpretations of the Bible are true, that has nothing to do with God's track record. Try to think about why.If none are true, then there is no track record.
Conversely, if a person disbelieves what was written about that, then he disbelieves Jesus arose from...the dead. And spoke to some. And arose and went to heaven after some days.So if a person believes what was written about that, then he believes Jesus arose from...the dead. And spoke to some. And arose and went to heaven after some days.
Obviously. Each one will be tested or examined by God accordingly. I feel blessed because God Almighty answered my prayers, I know He is the righteous judge and I wait for him.Conversely, if a person disbelieves what was written about that, then he disbelieves Jesus arose from...the dead. And spoke to some. And arose and went to heaven after some days.
If you want me to know it, then you will tell me. Otherwise, not.Even if none of the Jewish and Christian interpretations of the Bible are true, that has nothing to do with God's track record. Try to think about why.
Know what? Who will tell you?If you want me to know it, then you will tell me. Otherwise, not.
As I studied religion I was horrified to see what "religious" people did to others. That includes all sorts of atrocities, including war. It (by 'it,' I mean the world and its horrifically awful teachings) infiltrates virtually every facet of humanity. Today I was passing by some ultra-rich sections of this area of the U.S. It was a nice sunny day today where we live. And I was disgusted with the fact that there were such fabulously rich homes, people that used cleverness to subvert payment of taxes, etc. and more to become fabulously wealthy. I live in a reasonably pleasant place. When I went to school I was not religious. Didn't really believe in God although I was a member of a religion (which I later changed). I am so glad I learned what the Bible says. Remember that it was a devastating crime for the common person to read the Bible centuries ago. And -- accordingly -- time must pass by for eventualities to take place.Although I feel sure that Jesus was a real person, standing with folks like the Baptist against extreme corruption amongst the Priesthood and Temple, etc........ I have no interest in Christianity, it's constructs or its beliefs at all. It was liked because it could control masses of people by threatening them with everlasting torture, not just a three day death on stake or cross. Clever, really. And it worked.
And for many hundreds of years if anybody even questioned any part of it, torture and horrible deaths were the reward.
Not if one understands what they mean.if only those thoughts did not have so many conflicting scriptures
But I'm glad that my interest in Jesus ended with the gospel tales, thus saving me from wasting my time on Paul's stuff.if only those thoughts did not have so many conflicting scriptures
As I studied religion I was horrified to see what "religious" people did to others. That includes all sorts of atrocities, including war. It (by 'it,' I mean the world and its horrifically awful teachings) infiltrates virtually every facet of humanity. Today I was passing by some ultra-rich sections of this area of the U.S. It was a nice sunny day today where we live. And I was disgusted with the fact that there were such fabulously rich homes, people that used cleverness to subvert payment of taxes, etc. and more to become fabulously wealthy. I live in a reasonably pleasant place. When I went to school I was not religious. Didn't really believe in God although I was a member of a religion (which I later changed). I am so glad I learned what the Bible says. Remember that it was a devastating crime for the common person to read the Bible centuries ago. And -- accordingly -- time must pass by for eventualities to take place.
We all have our own interpretations of scriptures. Christians believe Daniel 7:13-14 is about Jesus and Baha’is believe they are about Baha’u’llah. Now I am hearing that Jews believe that that these verses are about Israel when it is obvious they are referring to a man.
I just heard on another forum that Jews also believe that Isaiah 53 refers to Israel when it is obviously about a man who will be the Messiah. Every verse says "He" or "Him." He and Him is not a nation, it is a man. There is no way Jews can make Isaiah 53 to be about a nation without defying logic and reason altogether. I do not believe that Isaiah 53 is about Jesus because Jesus did not do all of what the verses say so the Rabbis were right about that. However, Baha'u'llah did do everything the verses say so I believe the chapter is about Baha'u'llah.
...Do you think Jews just pull these laws from nowhere? ...
So what do you think the other 3 books that follow Exodus are for? Voluntary practices?By what the Bible tells, they were not in the ten commandments that were in the stone tablets. That is why I think they are separate thing and have a different meaning. But, I don’t say that they are not good or valid.
I totally agree with you that Isaiah is speaking of an individual and not a nation of people.
Bree for the winI totally agree with you that Isaiah is speaking of an individual and not a nation of people.
But there is a problem with the idea that the messiah can be someone from any other nation other then Israel.
The Messiah was foretold to come from among the brothers of Jacobs 12 sons.
He was specifically to be born from the tribe of Judah.
Baha'u'llah was not and Israeli. Nor was Mohammad. So neither of them can be the messiah.
Did Jesus come from among the brothers of Jacobs 12 sons? Was Jesus born from the tribe of Judah?I totally agree with you that Isaiah is speaking of an individual and not a nation of people.
But there is a problem with the idea that the messiah can be someone from any other nation other then Israel.
The Messiah was foretold to come from among the brothers of Jacobs 12 sons.
He was specifically to be born from the tribe of Judah.
Baha'u'llah was not and Israeli. Nor was Mohammad. So neither of them can be the messiah.