In accordance with the scriptures?????

[kaninchen]

Psalms 16:10

"For You shall not forsake my soul to the grave; You shall not allow Your pious one to see the pit."

Perhaps Christians should keep 'Proof Texts' to themselves?

 

[kaninchen]

Christianity picks and chooses it's scriptures anyway.

It was a pretty good way of inventing new ones.

 

[oldbadger]

It was a pretty good way of inventing new ones.

Although I feel sure that Jesus was a real person, standing with folks like the Baptist against extreme corruption amongst the Priesthood and Temple, etc........ I have no interest in Christianity, it's constructs or its beliefs at all. It was liked because it could control masses of people by threatening them with everlasting torture, not just a three day death on stake or cross. Clever, really. And it worked.
And for many hundreds of years if anybody even questioned any part of it, torture and horrible deaths were the reward.

 

[Bree]

Yeah, but my point is that you are just taking their word for it that they were inspired by God. You are only taking their word for it that the message is pure. Or even that there was a message.

when the prophets words come true in all their detail, then you know you can trust their writing is true. The bible writers were 'inspired' to write their letters. They often had no idea what the prophecy meant themselves.... but when the prophecy came true, then people knew the prophet was a true prophet of God.

Now we are in a unique position because we can look back on history and see how the prophecies have come to pass. We can see the historical evidence which proves the writer was truly writing with Gods direction.

Perhaps if you like I can create a thread that looks at various prophecies that are 100% verifiable in history.... and then you can see why so many people trust the bible writers.

Would you be willing to look at that if i post it?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Why? (At least you believe in a resurrection of the dead...I think...)

Because you can't take someone from thousands of years before an event and say that it is the same event.

As for my personal beliefs, I take no stance on an afterlife. It is utterly irrelevant to me. I obey God simply because he is God and worthy of my love and obedience. Not to gain heaven and escape hell.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Psalms 16:10

Psalms 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

This verse refers to King David going through the general resurrection. It is not a messianic passage.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Psalms 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

This verse refers to King David going through the general resurrection. It is not a messianic passage.

I appreciate your amicable response.

I see a problem attributing this verse as applying solely to King David.... at death, his body did experience corruption, it experienced decay.

Take care.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I appreciate your amicable response.

I see a problem attributing this verse as applying solely to King David.... at death, his body did experience corruption, it experienced decay.

Take care.

It's talking about his resurrected body, which is something that has yet to occur.

 

[YoursTrue]

opinions are like .....what? and every one has one

Hi. Without getting sarcastic if you don't mind, one may feel unconvinced, have no opinion. Sometimes. Let's put it this way re: opinions: one may take something prescribed by the doctor and feel better, therefore more than likely (note the words 'more than likely') the patient will say the medication worked. That is his opinion. On the other hand, tests of that medication with varieties of patients may come up with mixed results. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. My opinion is that the Bible is the word of God after reading it and researching it as much as possible. I believe it is inspired of God. It works in my life. I am glad I did not reject it when I studied iwith Jehovah's Witnesses. It works for me. That means -- my life became better. And without further detail, perhaps some other time I'll say how it became better. But that's for another day. Catholicism didn't 'work.' Other religions, Buddhism, Judaism, Protestantism, didn't 'work' for me. (Neither did atheism.)

 

[YoursTrue]

Yeah........ That and this 'coming back to life' after many many hours left unattended in a tomb......
Christianity picks and chooses it's scriptures anyway.

As I continued discussing the "eternal virgin" proposition with those who believe what the Catholic church plus more tells them, I will say that not all those calling themselves Christian are choosing the proper way as far as I am concerned. It's kind of like what the Bible says -- people were in a religion but did not believe or understand or obey what they were supposed by the covenant.
I am pretty sure that there are those within the various sects of Christendom who are convinced their teaching is right without doubt. I am glad I had that discussion with firm believers or teachers of the 'perpetual virginity' of Mary on these forums and I have come to some conclusions that not everyone will be happy to hear. So -- with that in mind -- have a good day.

 

[ppp]

when the prophets words come true in all their detail, then you know you can trust their writing is true. The bible writers were 'inspired' to write their letters. They often had no idea what the prophecy meant themselves.... but when the prophecy came true, then people knew the prophet was a true prophet of God.

Now we are in a unique position because we can look back on history and see how the prophecies have come to pass. We can see the historical evidence which proves the writer was truly writing with Gods direction.

Perhaps if you like I can create a thread that looks at various prophecies that are 100% verifiable in history.... and then you can see why so many people trust the bible writers.

Would you be willing to look at that if i post it?

Sure. Not be happy to. But let let me give you some caveats so that you don't feel sandbagged once you start the thread.

• I don't accept prophecies that are trivial. e.g. Wars and rumors of wars are something that any human could have made at any point over the course of human history.
• I don't accept so-called Jewish prophecies where the Jews, themselves, do not consider the text of prophecy.
• Provide explicit and narrow time frame in the prophecy as to when it will occur.
• Provide place that it will occur.
• Unambiguous language. No metaphors. No interpretation.
• Specific completion criteria that can only be answered by exactly one event.
• I don't consider that to be a fulfilled prophecy if people who knew the prophecy were trying to fulfill it. If I prophesize that a really tall purple building will be built and a thousand years later, my millions and millions of followers build a really tall purple building That's not a prophecy. That's a commission.
• Establishing that a prophecy was actually fulfilled does not demonstrate the origin of the prophecy.

If you're okay all that, then sure, I'd be happy to look at your list.

 

[1213]

Have you read the Torah at all? The laws continue after the ones on the tablets. It starts talking about slavery laws.

But the words of the covenant speak only about the ten.

Yahweh said to Moses, "Come up to me on the mountain, and stay here, and I will give you the tables of stone with the law and the commands that I have written, that you may teach them."
Exodus 24:12
Yahweh said to Moses, "Write you these words: for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel." He was there with Yahweh forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread, nor drank water. He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
Exodus 34:27-28

Because of that, I think it I possible that the God’s law is the ten commandments, and the other rules are something else. However, even if the others would not be the God’s law, I think they can be good.

 

[Rival]

But the words of the covenant speak only about the ten.

Yahweh said to Moses, "Come up to me on the mountain, and stay here, and I will give you the tables of stone with the law and the commands that I have written, that you may teach them."
Exodus 24:12
Yahweh said to Moses, "Write you these words: for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel." He was there with Yahweh forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread, nor drank water. He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
Exodus 34:27-28

Because of that, I think it I possible that the God’s law is the ten commandments, and the other rules are something else. However, even if the others would not be the God’s law, I think they can be good.

Here's another translation:

The Lord said to Moses: "Inscribe these words for yourself, for according to these words I have formed a covenant with you and with Israel."

The tablets are the physical evidence of the covenant, the sealing of it. But there are piles more laws, such as laws for eating, laws for washing, laws for housing, laws for death, laws for kings, laws for women, laws for priests, slaves, clothing etc. Do you think Jews just pull these laws from nowhere? Eat kosher for no reason?

 

[Brickjectivity]

Psalms 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

This verse refers to King David going through the general resurrection. It is not a messianic passage.

Or it might refer to David being buried honorably as opposed to having a shameful death like Absalom's who is hung on a tree. King Saul almost sees his body decay or for a time does until his corpse is mercifully buried. David could be expressing the hope that he will not be rejected as ruler. The idea behind his song could be just that. As a King he is dethroned, but then he is restored. The nation forgives him and puts him back in the chair. Of course he's going to put this into his songs.

 

[kaninchen]

It was liked because it could control masses of people by threatening them with everlasting torture, not just a three day death on stake or cross. Clever, really. And it worked.

There was another 'pie in the sky when you die' aspect to it though - many people slaved (metaphorically or literally) throughout their lives within religious contexts where they weren't going to get anything out of it from an afterlife perspective, Christianity offered paradise if you believed in precise ways.

 

[oldbadger]

There was another 'pie in the sky when you die' aspect to it though - many people slaved (metaphorically or literally) throughout their lives within religious contexts where they weren't going to get anything out of it from an afterlife perspective, Christianity offered paradise if you believed in precise ways.

Yes.....true.
Everlasting comfort in heaven if you obey meekly. Everlasting agony on hell if you don't.
I think that was what Saul's blinding idea was all about.

 

[Bree]

It's talking about his resurrected body, which is something that has yet to occur.

can i ask you where does the Messiah fit into the general resurrection? Does he come before it?

 

[Bree]

Sure. Not be happy to. But let let me give you some caveats so that you don't feel sandbagged once you start the thread.

• I don't accept prophecies that are trivial. e.g. Wars and rumors of wars are something that any human could have made at any point over the course of human history.
• I don't accept so-called Jewish prophecies where the Jews, themselves, do not consider the text of prophecy.
• Provide explicit and narrow time frame in the prophecy as to when it will occur.
• Provide place that it will occur.
• Unambiguous language. No metaphors. No interpretation.
• Specific completion criteria that can only be answered by exactly one event.
• I don't consider that to be a fulfilled prophecy if people who knew the prophecy were trying to fulfill it. If I prophesize that a really tall purple building will be built and a thousand years later, my millions and millions of followers build a really tall purple building That's not a prophecy. That's a commission.
• Establishing that a prophecy was actually fulfilled does not demonstrate the origin of the prophecy.

If you're okay all that, then sure, I'd be happy to look at your list.

well because im a stubborn woman and i like a challenge i'll give it a whirl.

 

[cataway]

Yes.....true.
Everlasting comfort in heaven if you obey meekly. Everlasting agony on hell if you don't.
I think that was what Saul's blinding idea was all about.

if only those thoughts did not have so many conflicting scriptures

 

[Trailblazer]

My problem is, there is absolutely nothing in the Tanakh that states the Messiah will come back to life. Where are Christians getting this?

I assume form the New Testament gospels that say that Jesus rose form the dead.