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Featured In accordance with the scriptures?????

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by IndigoChild5559, Jan 12, 2022 at 2:15 AM.

  1. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    The Nicene Creed states of Jesus: "For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
    he suffered death and was buried, and rose again on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures."

    My problem is, there is absolutely nothing in the Tanakh that states the Messiah will come back to life. Where are Christians getting this?
     
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  2. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein I'm not deaf, I'm just a real bad listener
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    Well, I never understood why followers of Rabbinic Judaism believe that God will send them an earthly king to rule over the land of Israel as the end plan when that is obviously not what He wanted for them in the first place:
    Bible Gateway passage: 1 Samuel 8 - Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition

    The Major Prophets in the OT seem to have something much more cosmic in mind, which Christianity recognizes.

    :shrug:
     
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  3. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    The Suffering Servant.
     
  4. mangalavara

    mangalavara Verified Account ✔
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    I presume they point to Isaiah 55 and Psalm 16 based on these verses from the Acts of the Apostles:

    And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption (Acts 13.34-35, KJV).​

    What do you think of those passages?
     
  5. Rival

    Rival Divine Adoratrice of Amun
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    The messianic stuff comes after this, such as with the idea there will always be a man to sit on the throne of David. Once there is a king, he's there to stay.

    2 Sam, 7:16
    "And your house and your kingdom shall be made sure forever before me. Your throne shall be established forever.’”

    Jer, 33:17,
    For thus says the LORD, ‘David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel.'

    The Creed was formed in 325, so I assumed it's talking about the Gospels as scripture.
     
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  6. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity ✔ a-OK RF member .99/lb
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    In my opinion the Nicene Creed could only allude to Ezekiel 37, but to allude to that would require it to be non-literal, having a secret meaning. That actually fits with the way the gospels are written, so I think its a good guess. Its not official.
     
  7. anna.

    anna. Tried and waited then got tired, that's about it

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    The Nicene Creed is quoting Paul: 1 Cor. 15:3-4:

    For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures

    Although I don't know what scriptures Paul is referring to, he would be referring to the Old Testament.
     
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  8. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    But was there not a belief in resurrection, if so, Jesus' resurrection is not the problem, but the belief that he is the promised Mesiah. As I understand it there was/is belief that the Messiah would/will not be a divinity.
     
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  9. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    By what I see, there doesn’t seem to be really anything about Messiah. At least not directly. Many so called Messiah parts are not really about the Messiah. They are about God, or Salomon or David, but not exactly anything about future Messiah.

    This is why, maybe all that was removed from there? I believe the ancient Christians had some scriptures about it, why else would they have made successfully such claims? If they would have lied, people would have immediately known that and rejected it.

    Or what do you think, is there anything at all about Messiah? If yes, please show one example.

    However, there is about new covenant.

    Behold, the days come, says Yahweh, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was a husband to them, says Yahweh. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says Yahweh: I will put my law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people: and they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know Yahweh; for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says Yahweh: for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin will I remember no more.
    Jeremiah 31:31-34

    I think that new Covenant was done through Jesus.
     
  10. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    There was no prophecy specific to the messiah that he would resurrect. And we cannot say that J coming back from the dead is part of the resurrection that happens at the end of time.
     
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  11. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Where in Ezekiel 36 does it say that the messiah will come back from the dead?
     
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  12. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Can you please quote the verses in those chapters where it says the messiah will come back from the dead? Thanks.
     
  13. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    The suffering servant is not the messiah, but Israel.
     
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  14. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity ✔ a-OK RF member .99/lb
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    37 not 36. "Where in Ezekiel 37 does it say that the messiah will come back from the dead?" It depends on what you think the messiah is, but its Ezekiel 37. That is the only passage which predicts anyone or anything returning from the dead.
     
  15. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Non answer. Please quote the verse in Ezekiel 37 where it says the messiah will come back from the dead.
     
  16. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Yes, but Christians have long argued otherwise. They've retroactively inserted Jesus into a great deal of their interpretations of the OT. Much like how they've swapped out Satan the loyal angel with Satan the rebellious devil, and have injected a Christian understand of Heaven and Hell into the OT as well.
     
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  17. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Right. Christians have been wrong about this for 2000 years.
     
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  18. PearlSeeker

    PearlSeeker Well-Known Member

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    I have thought that" according to the scriptures" means according to NT (gospels) because they describe the mentioned events.
     
  19. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    But Jesus himself said he did not come to do away with, change, or lessen the Prophets and the Laws, and he warned against teaching otherwise. And if you take Revelations to be a book of future events, not all things have been fulfilled meaning there Old Covenant still stands.
     
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  20. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    It always interests me when I learn what the Jewish beliefs actually are, and just how much Christianity has caricaturized and bastardized what Judaism is. And fascinating how just a little of corrective knowledge can dramatically change what's going on in the OT. Like Job. More or less the same words, but two totally different stories depending on Satan's role in it. And probably the most dramatic change is Genesis and Exodus, going from a Christian understanding and expectation of total, unquestioned obedience to Jehovah to the idea of Arguing with God and adding layers and depths of humanity to the story that Christianity tends to shy away from.
     
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