In accordance with the scriptures?????

[mangalavara]

Can you please quote the verses in those chapters where it says the messiah will come back from the dead? Thanks.

Here is the one in Isaiah 55 that the Acts of the Apostles refers to regarding the supposed resurrection of the Messiah:

Incline your ear, and come unto Me; hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David. Behold, I have given him for a witness to the peoples, a prince and commander to the peoples. Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and a nation that knew not thee shall run unto thee; because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel, for He hath glorified thee (Isaiah 55.3-5, JPS 1917).​

Here is the one in Psalm 16 that the Acts of the Apostles refers to regarding the supposed resurrection of the Messiah:

I have set the LORD always before me; surely He is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.
Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth; my flesh also dwelleth in safety;
For Thou wilt not abandon my soul to the nether-world; neither wilt Thou suffer Thy godly one to see the pit.
Thou makest me to know the path of life;
in Thy presence is fulness of joy, in Thy right hand bliss for evermore (Psalm 16.8-11, JPS 1917).​

In the passage from Isaiah, the audience is Am Yisrael. There appears to be a promise to renew the Davidic covenant. It may involve either a resurrected David or the reign of his descendants. In the passage from the Tehillim, David does not seem to speak of resurrection but of being protected from death. Indeed, the first verse in the Psalm itself says, 'Preserve me.'

 

[Brickjectivity]

Non answer. Please quote the verse in Ezekiel 37 where it says the messiah will come back from the dead.

Since at least one passage exists which predicts a resurrection of some kind all that is needed to explain the creed is a non-literal interpretation of it. A passage exists in Ezekiel 37 predicting a resurrection, and that explains the creed very well. Those who don't like this interpretation of the Nicene cannot provide another, and can either only allege that there must be some other passage or can deny that the creed has any intention of citing a passage in your canon. It does though. It refers to Ezekiel 37.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I presume they point to Isaiah 55 and Psalm 16 based on these verses from the Acts of the Apostles:

And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption (Acts 13.34-35, KJV).
What do you think of those passages?

They help, too. Good eye.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Since at least one passage exists which predicts a resurrection of some kind all that is needed to explain the creed is a non-literal interpretation of it. A passage exists in Ezekiel 37 predicting a resurrection, and that explains the creed very well. Those who don't like this interpretation of the Nicene cannot provide another, and can either only allege that there must be some other passage or can deny that the creed has any intention of citing a passage in your canon. It does though. It refers to Ezekiel 37.

No you are mistaken. The general resurrection happens at the end of time. Jesus, IF he resurrected (I don't think so) cannot be included in that group.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Here is the one in Isaiah 55 that the Acts of the Apostles refers to regarding the supposed resurrection of the Messiah:

Incline your ear, and come unto Me; hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David. Behold, I have given him for a witness to the peoples, a prince and commander to the peoples. Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and a nation that knew not thee shall run unto thee; because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel, for He hath glorified thee (Isaiah 55.3-5, JPS 1917).​

Here is the one in Psalm 16 that the Acts of the Apostles refers to regarding the supposed resurrection of the Messiah:

I have set the LORD always before me; surely He is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.
Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth; my flesh also dwelleth in safety;
For Thou wilt not abandon my soul to the nether-world; neither wilt Thou suffer Thy godly one to see the pit.
Thou makest me to know the path of life;
in Thy presence is fulness of joy, in Thy right hand bliss for evermore (Psalm 16.8-11, JPS 1917).​

In the passage from Isaiah, the audience is Am Yisrael. There appears to be a promise to renew the Davidic covenant. It may involve either a resurrected David or the reign of his descendants. In the passage from the Tehillim, David does not seem to speak of resurrection but of being protected from death. Indeed, the first verse in the Psalm itself says, 'Preserve me.'

Neither of these passages concern the messiah.

 

[Brickjectivity]

No you are mistaken. The general resurrection happens at the end of time. Jesus, IF he resurrected (I don't think so) cannot be included in that group.

Regardless of the meaning of 'The general resurrection' don't rely upon protestant innovations -- modern ideas, to explain ancient words. Using their terms about general resurrections isn't shedding light on ancient wording, and protestants rejected the priests who wrote the Nicene creed, their authority to teach and their secrets if any. They walked away. Nicene creed says that your scriptures talk about the resurrection of Jesus. You only have so many scripture to pick from, so it can only be referring to Ezekiel 37. The implication is that Jesus is in this sense not a man but is Israel or a remade Israel. It aligns very tightly with the way that Matthew keeps saying Jesus fulfills scriptures that are about Israel.

 

[cataway]

i wonder if you are familiar with something called the ''sacred secret''
COLOSSIANS 1:26 NWTHS

 

[pearl]

Regardless of the meaning of 'The general resurrection'

Jesus himself, in a conversation with Mary and Martha differentiates between the 'general resurrection' and his own. John II:25

 

[Brickjectivity]

Jesus himself, in a conversation with Mary and Martha differentiates between the 'general resurrection' and his own. John II:25

I didn't say I had a flawless plan. The nature of the NT arguments is difficult to determine.

Are you referring to this?

[Jhn 2:19-21 NIV] 19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days." 20 They replied, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?" 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body.
​

Just before John again refers to him as Israel:

[Jhn 1:51 NIV] 51 He then added (To Nathanael), "Very truly I tell you, you will see 'heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on' the Son of Man."
​

Another possibility is that the creed refers to Jesus as Israel, as if at the time of Jesus all of Israel has collapsed and only one person remains of it. There is a story about Moses where this almost occurs with him, but he intercedes for the Israelites so that they aren't cut off. I don't think that is what it means though.

 

[pearl]

I didn't say I had a flawless plan. The nature of the NT arguments is difficult to determine.

It helps to remember that NT arguments are all from post resurrection faith, and were written 'after' the fact so they are not really predictions. As for the 'general resurrection' I think you are correct in siting Ezekiel 37;
Thus says the Lord GOD to these bones: Listen! I will make breath enter you so you may come to life.
6I will put sinews on you, make flesh grow over you, cover you with skin, and put breath into you so you may come to life. Then you shall know that I am the LORD.
7I prophesied as I had been commanded. A sound started up, as I was prophesying, rattling like thunder. The bones came together, bone joining to bone.
8As I watched, sinews appeared on them, flesh grew over them, skin covered them on top, but there was no breath in them.
Then he said to me: Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man! Say to the breath: Thus says the Lord GOD: From the four winds come, O breath, and breathe into these slain that they may come to life.

To me it simply means that God is greater than death.

 

[Redemptionsong]

The Nicene Creed states of Jesus: "For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried, and rose again on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures."

My problem is, there is absolutely nothing in the Tanakh that states the Messiah will come back to life. Where are Christians getting this?

The coming of Jesus was, as John's Gospel tells us, the coming of 'the true Light' [John 1:9]. The Lord enlightens the understanding 'For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ' [John 1:17].

What did Jesus have to say about his own resurrection? He said [Matthew 12:39,40] ' and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:'

What was 'the sign of the prophet Jonas'?
In the book of Jonah we learn that Jonah was swallowed by a great fish, that he descended into 'sheol' and remained there for three days and nights before being vomited, alive, onto dry land.

Some people try to claim that Jonah did not die physically, but he would not have cried out from 'sheol' (the grave) had he not been physically dead. His soul remained alive and he was able cry out to his Father in His 'holy temple'. Finally, in Jonah 2:9, it says, 'Salvation is of the LORD.' So, how can this be a story of salvation if Jonah was not in need of saving from death?

There are many other Tanakh references that link to the crucifixion and to salvation from death. But, one of the most explicit passages of Tanakh scripture refers to the ascension of the Son of man [Daniel 7:13]. How is it that the Son of man 'came to the Ancient of days'? It is not possible to ascend to God without being either resurrected or translated. So, tell me, how did the Son of man get to be in heaven without being raised from the dead?

In Zechariah 12:9-14 we are told about the return of the Messiah. Why does it say, 'and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him'? Who are they (the inhabitants of Jerusalem) mourning? How did the Messiah, who brings with him 'the spirit of grace and supplications' come to be 'pierced'? Where was the Messiah appearing from at this time?

 

[1213]

But Jesus himself said he did not come to do away with, change, or lessen the Prophets and the Laws, ....

Yes, and I think he didn't do that. I think he confirmed them. The new covenant doesn't change the law, it "writes it to persons heart".

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes, and I think he didn't do that. I think he confirmed them. The new covenant doesn't change the law, it "writes it to persons heart".

How can that be the case when most Christians do not know how or when to observe the Laws? Especially considering Christians are the Abrahamics without a dietary code?

 

[YoursTrue]

There was no prophecy specific to the messiah that he would resurrect. And we cannot say that J coming back from the dead is part of the resurrection that happens at the end of time.

Well, I read most of the answers and would like to mention that many were hoping Rabbi Schneerson would be resurrected, isn't that right? (There's more about Jesus, but perhaps another time...) Not sure what you mean about Jesus being resurrected at the "end of time." Where did you get that one from? But let's go back to Rabbi Schneerson for a moment. Are some still waiting by his grave?

 

[YoursTrue]

I have thought that" according to the scriptures" means according to NT (gospels) because they describe the mentioned events.

It took me a while to learn what the scriptures are saying (the Tanach in particuilar) regarding the appearance and return of the Messiah.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Well, I read most of the answers and would like to mention that many were hoping Rabbi Schneerson would be resurrected, isn't that right? (There's more about Jesus, but perhaps another time...) Not sure what you mean about Jesus being resurrected at the "end of time." Where did you get that one from? But let's go back to Rabbi Schneerson for a moment. Are some still waiting by his grave?

The Jews that believe that R. Shneerson will come back are considered Heretics. We still love them.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

In Zechariah 12:9-14 we are told about the return of the Messiah. Why does it say, 'and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him'? Who are they (the inhabitants of Jerusalem) mourning? How did the Messiah, who brings with him 'the spirit of grace and supplications' come to be 'pierced'? Where was the Messiah appearing from at this time?

What verse in Zechariah 12:9-14 specifically says that the Messiah will come back from the dead? Please quote it for us. Thanks.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Regardless of the meaning of 'The general resurrection' don't rely upon protestant innovations -- modern ideas, to explain ancient words. Using their terms about general resurrections isn't shedding light on ancient wording, and protestants rejected the priests who wrote the Nicene creed, their authority to teach and their secrets if any. They walked away. Nicene creed says that your scriptures talk about the resurrection of Jesus. You only have so many scripture to pick from, so it can only be referring to Ezekiel 37. The implication is that Jesus is in this sense not a man but is Israel or a remade Israel. It aligns very tightly with the way that Matthew keeps saying Jesus fulfills scriptures that are about Israel.

Please quote the verse(s) in Ezekiel 37 that spell out that the messiah will come back from the dead.

 

[YoursTrue]

The Jews that believe that R. Shneerson will come back are considered Heretics. We still love them.

Considered heretics? By whom? And more importantly, why? That is really the important question. Anyway, as I said, it took time for me to realize what the Bible (specifically the Tanach) was saying about the appearance of the Messiah.

 

[YoursTrue]

What verse in Zechariah 12:9-14 specifically says that the Messiah will come back from the dead? Please quote it for us. Thanks.

Now of course Maimonides did teach and believe in 'a' resurrection, did he not? But of course I don't think it was aligned with the 2nd appearance of the Messiah. A very interesting concept. Anyway, have a nice evening.