Important Questionnaire #8: Reporting Rules Violations

[Jim]

I consider it a real tricky subject to think of ideas for, because the Games section is mostly banter, and people seem to usually be comfortable with that considering its got its base of users which come often.

Outside of the Games section, I consider there to be two types of insults - ones in which there is no reason for them. People are often unprepared for them and they can be a bit hurtful. The other is members who kind of already maybe formed a connection in the Games section, then feel comfortable brawling it out when they get to more serious subjects.

What would it hurt for people not to rate those bantering and brawling posts outside of the Games forum, not to display approval or admiration for them in comments, and not to argue or protest against them in the same thread, even if they are perfectly innocent and harmless?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

What would it hurt for people not to rate those posts, not to display approval or admiration for them in comments, and not to argue or protest against them in the same thread?

It could work. But I can think of a situation where it doesn't:

Person X in the Games section says something a little disturbing but funny to me. I can either rate it as Funny to let them know I got the joke, found it funny, am a good sport about it, etc. Or I can keep quiet and that member could end up thinking that they hurt my feelings. Which in my experience, is what usually happens. I mean, I don't mind getting PMs from members, it's fun, but I would rather avoid PMs from several members thinking they upset me when they didn't.

 

[Jim]

I’m thinking that bantering and brawling outside of the Games forum, however innocent it might be, jams the moderation radar, and is used as camouflage and a smokescreen for actual insults and personal attacks.

 

[Jim]

It could work. But I can think of a situation where it doesn't:

Person X in the Games section says something a little disturbing but funny to me. I can either rate it as Funny to let them know I got the joke, found it funny, am a good sport about it, etc. Or I can keep quiet and that member could end up thinking that they hurt my feelings. Which in my experience, is what usually happens. I mean, I don't mind getting PMs from members, it's fun, but I would rather avoid PMs from several members thinking they upset me when they didn't.

I revised that post. See what you think now. Besides, what you’re saying is not a reason for rating insults and personal attacks against other people besides you.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I revised that post. See what you think now.

I think the revised post is sound as far as ideas go.

I’m thinking that bantering and brawling outside of the Games forum, however innocent it might be, jams the moderation radar, and is used as camouflage and a smokescreen for actual insults and personal attacks.

You're probably right. Eventually it may jam radars especially taking into light that each staff member may not have unlimited time to analyze each post.

 

[Jim]

I think the revised post is sound as far as ideas go.

You're probably right. Eventually it may jam radars especially taking into light that each staff member may not have unlimited time to analyze each post.

Also, if the banter and brawling really is pure and innocent, it can be done in ways that make it obvious to everyone that it’s genuinely friendly and not intended seriously. Even then, what harm is there in other people not responding to it?

 

[Secret Chief]

You can volunteer to be staff for a while, then your name will be green when you resign your staff position.

People volunteer to do that stuff? Are you paid after for the fees of the therapist?

 

[Secret Chief]

Admins are red

Mods are bright blue

Start with your trolling

And they'll delete you.

 

[Jim]

I’m thinking that the possibilities for reducing the amount of insults and personal attacks will be much better if that is considered in a context of wanting the forums to be more friendly, fun and beneficial for every person who is reading and posting here, as an end in itself, more than just a way to keep people coming back; and appealing to any sense of moral and social responsibility that anyone might have, to put some time and effort into helping that happen, with what they say and how they say it, in their posts.

 

[Jim]

When I say “insults and personal attacks,” I’m thinking of disparaging people’s character and capacities, and vilifying their motives and intentions. Besides what people can do to help reduce the amount of insults and personal attacks, I’m thinking that anyone who wants to can help reduce and counteract some of their harmful effects by giving some friendly attention to people when they might be adversely affected by them.

 

[Jim]

I’ve been thinking about what might make the most difference in helping to reduce the amount of insults and personal attacks. As I said, when I say that, I’m thinking of disparaging people’s character and capacities, and vilifying their motives and intentions. I’m not sure about any of this, but here’s what I think might make the most difference:
- Considering the issue in a context of wanting the forums to be more friendly, fun, and beneficial for everyone, as an end in itself and not only to keep people coming back.
- Appealing to any sense of moral and social responsibility that anyone might have, to help improve life in the forums for everyone, with what they say and how they say it, in their posts.
- People training themselves to not respond in any way to insults and personal attacks, not even to argue or protest against them.
- Training for those purposes, for anyone who wants it, and as a requirement for being able to post, for some of the worst offenders, no matter if they’re doing it intentionally or not.

Insults and personal attacks might continue to be popular far into the future, no matter what anyone does. Meanwhile anyone who wants to can give some friendly attention to people when they might be adversely affected by insults and personal attacks. That might do more than anything else to reduce and counteract the harmful effects of insults and personal attacks.

I discussed not responding at all in any way to insults and personal attacks, as a way of helping to reduce their popularity. That might also be a good way to help keep threads from being derailed by all kinds of distracting behavior.

 

[Polymath257]

Another thing:

If you have reported someone in a thread, there is no good reason to report the same person for the same violation in the same thread.

Generally speaking, when we get a report, we look over the thread to see what is going on. If we moderate based on a post, we generally clean up the rest of the offending posts in a thread. Doing multiple reports for the same person in the same thread just makes unnecessary work since they will all get merged anyway.

And yes, NOT responding to offensive posts (except for reporting) is the best response. It would just add to our cleanup if you do.

 

[Revoltingest]

yeah......like the search controls still don't work

That's beyond the control of staff.
But sometimes "nothing can be done" is a choice.

 

[Terry Sampson]

If you have reported someone in a thread, there is no good reason to report the same person for the same violation in the same thread.

LOL! That happens???

NOT responding to offensive posts (except for reporting) is the best response

Uhhh, .... What if the OP is the offensive post?
E.g.

• Hi, I'm a member of an Abrahamic sect whose purpose is to promote love, peace, and harmony which requires that everyone who isn't a member of my sect stop taking everything in the Bible literally and believe what my sect believes, and I have a civil, respectful question for other Abrahamics who don't believe what my sect believes: Why do you take anything, much less everything, in the Bible literally, when any sane, rational, reasonable person would realize that the Bible was written two thousand or more years ago and is only useful if taken metaphorically, except the parts that confirm the superiority of my sect?
• Hi, I'm a recovering sex addict and alcoholic, and I want to know why so many Christians worship the Sun and celebrate Christmas.
• Hi, I believe that Jesus was the Archangel Michael before he came to Earth, was conceived in a virgin without any male human input, died, was resurrected, was raised up into heaven, and will return in my lifetime to send everybody who doesn't believe what I believe to Hell, and I have a civil, respectful question for Jews: So, tell me, why don't you believe in Jesus?
• Hi, I believe that Jesus showed up in ancient Israel and then, again, here in North America, that he has a Father God and a Mother God, each of whom also had a Father God and a Mother God, ad infinitum, and I believe that someday I'm going to get to be a God too, and I have a civil, respectful question for Trinitarian Christians: Why do you believe nonsense?

 

[Rival]

Uhhh, .... What if the OP is the offensive post?

Report it.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

LOL! That happens???

Uhhh, .... What if the OP is the offensive post?
E.g.

• Hi, I'm a member of an Abrahamic sect whose purpose is to promote love, peace, and harmony which requires that everyone who isn't a member of my sect stop taking everything in the Bible literally and believe what my religion believes, and I have a civil, respectful question for other Abrahamics who don't believe what my sect believes: Why do you take anything, much less everything, in the Bible literally, when any sane, rational, reasonable person would realize that the Bible was written two thousand or more years ago and is only useful if taken metaphorically, except the parts that confirm the superiority of my sect?
• Hi, I'm a recovering sex addict and alcoholic, and I want to know why so many Christians worship the Sun and celebrate Christmas.
• Hi, I believe that Jesus was the Archangel Michael before he came to Earth, was conceived in a virgin without any male human input, died, was resurrected, was raised up into heaven, and will return in my lifetime to send everybody who doesn't believe what I believe to Hell, and I have a civil, respectful question for Jews: So, tell me, why don't you believe in Jesus?
• Hi, I believe that Jesus showed up in ancient Israel and then, again, here in North America, that he has a Father God and a Mother God, each of whom also had a Father God and a Mother God, ad infinitum, and I believe that someday I'm going to get to be a God too, and I have a civil, respectful question for Trinitarian Christians: Why do you believe nonsense?

It is not offensive for someone to believe anything at all nor to state those belief in a thread.
It is not the purpose of these forums to proscribe any belief.
They are perfectly free to believe that they are the only ones to be "saved" and every on else will end up in hell.
They can have the seemingly most outlandish beliefs and state them, with out breaking any rules.
The staff do not sit in judgement of beliefs but only of behaviour.
The staff of RF have been drawn from all religions and none.

we have no right not to be offended.

None of your examples break any rules of them selves.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

OPTION FIVE: I report none or almost none of the serious rules violations that I notice.

I'm surprised that I'm expected to report rules violations. Able to is one thing, but expected to? My values are not RF's values. I don't care if a poster proselytizes or uses profanity, for example. There are few to no serious rules violations for me, so I have no desire to report anybody for any posting, but would be willing to in order to help out if the process was more user-friendly.

The only two times I tried it was regarding the same poster, who I found very offensive, and thought he needed a rebuke. I got no feedback from the site - don't know if my complaint was received or how it was evaluated. Did the moderators agree with my complaint or did they find it was petty or without merit? If there were repercussions to the poster, I never saw them. It's a pretty unsatisfying process, so I stopped doing that.

Hope that helps.

 

[Augustus]

AFAIK I've only ever reported ridiculous spamming of meaningless posts to the extent that the site becomes almost unusable.

I don't care what people say to me, and feel it's up to other people to report anything directed at them that they find unacceptable. Imo it's better to leave it up to the people involved to decide whether it's a problem rather than others taking it upon themselves to police 3rd parties who may have no issue with it.

 

[McBell]

My Opinions...

Reporting posts is needed to keep the forum up to the Forum Mission.
That means that members need to report posts that break the rules.
Why?
Because it is not realistic to expect the staff to read every post in every thread.

I sure do not go from thread to thread looking for violations.
But I will report violations that I come across whilst doing my own thing on the forum.
It matters not what thread it is in, or who created the violation.

I tend to avoid most of the political threads.
I also tend to avoid the DIRs I am not a member of.
But I do haunt some threads I am not allowed to post in because something in said thread sparked my interest.

 

[Terry Sampson]

1. It is not offensive for someone to believe anything at all nor to state those belief in a thread.
2. It is not the purpose of these forums to proscribe any belief.
3. They are perfectly free to believe that they are the only ones to be "saved" and every on else will end up in hell.
4. They can have the seemingly most outlandish beliefs and state them, with out breaking any rules.
5. The staff do not sit in judgement of beliefs but only of behaviour.
6. The staff of RF have been drawn from all religions and none.
7. we have no right not to be offended.
8. None of your examples break any rules of them selves.

#1. Whether or not it is offensive for someone to believe anything at all is one thing. Whether or not one may state one's beliefs in a thread is another thing. And, how many times someone may consciously choose to state one's beliefs, when the beliefs are a well-known, and/or often stated fact, when there is no hope of adding anything new, informative, or persuasive to the statement of those beliefs is third thing. It is the third thing that I object to.
#2. You wanna bet?
#3. I agree. However, as you so clearly fail to recognize, saying so, even in this most liberal of forums that I have participated in, is--I argue--a violation of Rule #9.
#4. The beliefs that one may have without breaking any rules is one thing. Whether stating those beliefs breaks a rule or not is another thing.
#5. Well said. The staff has no responsibility to judge an unstated belief. The moment a belief gets posted, however, the posting of the belief is behavior and, as such, should be judged by someone.
#6. So what? What religions they themselves have and whether or not they were "drawn" from a religion is irrelevant.
#7. The problem with your version of what folks have a right to be offended by and what folks don't have a right to be offended by is that your version suffers from the "all or none" and the "never ever"
fallacy. Ergo, you err.
#8. Sez you. We'll see about that.