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Imam Ali's prediction About ISIS(Sunna says)

mojtaba

Active Member
وَقُلِ اعْمَلُوا فَسَيَرَى اللَّهُ عَمَلَكُمْ وَرَسُولُهُ وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ وَسَتُرَدُّونَ إِلَى عَالِمِ الْغَيْبِ وَالشَّهَادَةِ فَيُنَبِّئُكُمْ بِمَا كُنْتُمْ تَعْمَلُونَ

فَسَيَرَى is a future tense, it isn't like saying إن الله يرى , Do you think deeds (اعملو) is the same as calling , such as saying "وادعو الرسول والمؤمنيين فهم يسمعونكم"
So you say that Allah Ta'ala sees our coducts in the future?!! No brothe.Holy Qur'an, 10:61, You do not engage in any work, neither do you recite any part of the Quran, nor do you perform any deed without Our being witness over you when you are engaged therein.

So this verse says that, O people, go on working, and know when you will do a doing, Allah and His apostle and the faithful will see it.

Don't you think that Allah is better than the 12 Imams, I believe that Allah loves the person who seeks him for forgiveness and not asking
it from his prophets or from the 12 Imams, what do you think ?
You said: "I believe that Allah loves the person who seeks him for forgiveness and not asking it from his prophets or from the 12 Imams, what do you think ?"

But Holy Qur'an says another thing:
[4:64]We did not send any apostle but to be obeyed by Allah’s leave. Had they, when they wronged themselves, come to you and pleaded to Allah for forgiveness, and the Apostle had pleaded for them [to Allah]for forgiveness, they would have surely found Allah allclement, all-merciful.

[12:97, 98]
They(i.e., the sons of Prophet Ya'ghub(Jacob) ) said, ‘Father! Plead [with Allah] for forgiveness of our sins! We have indeed been erring.’ (97) He said, ‘I shall plead with my Lord to forgive you; indeed He is the All-forgiving, the All-merciful.’(98)

And also other verses. Insha'allah, I will creat a thread about Tawassul.


It's God the one saying in the quran Peace be to Abraham ..etc, not us, does it say "قل سلاما على", say peace be to ..
Yes. But when you are reciting that verses, you are who says "Peace be to Nuh, Abraham or Moses .... ".

If God hear our sounds then why not calling him directly than calling one of the Imam, God is merciful and he likes his servants to ask for his help and for his forgiveness, that's what i believe and that's what i think.
[12:97, 98]
They(i.e., the sons of Prophet Ya'ghub(Jacob) ) said, ‘Father! Plead [with Allah] for forgiveness of our sins! We have indeed been erring.’ (97) He said, ‘I shall plead with my Lord to forgive you; indeed He is the All-forgiving, the All-merciful.’(98)

We can ask from Allah directly and also undirectly. In both cases, we indeed call Him.

Will it convert the dead to a Muslim or will it change anything ? IOW do you think the dead can still convert to Islam by hearing such words..
No. 'Your dead ones' in these Hadiths means faithful ones, not Kaffirs. The word ' your' makes this sense.
However when we recite to faithful dead the Tawhid Word(i.e., there is no god but Allah), they( their souls or spirits ) hear it and in Barzakh when angles ask them about their believes, our reciting may helps them.
 
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FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
So you say that Allah Ta'ala sees our coducts in the future?!! No brothe.Holy Qur'an, 10:61, You do not engage in any work, neither do you recite any part of the Quran, nor do you perform any deed without Our being witness over you when you are engaged therein.

So this verse says that, O people, go on working, and know when you will do a doing, Allah and His apostle and the faithful will see it.

Yes my brother, God will see our records and what we have done, yes everything is recorded and preserved for the judgement day.


You said: "I believe that Allah loves the person who seeks him for forgiveness and not asking it from his prophets or from the 12 Imams, what do you think ?"

But Holy Qur'an says another thing:
[4:64]We did not send any apostle but to be obeyed by Allah’s leave. Had they, when they wronged themselves, come to you and pleaded to Allah for forgiveness, and the Apostle had pleaded for them [to Allah]for forgiveness, they would have surely found Allah allclement, all-merciful.

Do you know Arabic, they didn't ask the messenger to tell God to forgive them but they asked the forgiveness from God and the messenger forgave them too.
Read the explanation http://www.alro7.net/ayaq.php?aya=64&sourid=4

[12:97, 98]
They(i.e., the sons of Prophet Ya'ghub(Jacob) ) said, ‘Father! Plead [with Allah] for forgiveness of our sins! We have indeed been erring.’ (97) He said, ‘I shall plead with my Lord to forgive you; indeed He is the All-forgiving, the All-merciful.’(98)

Read the verses in Arabic

قَالُوا يَا أَبَانَا اسْتَغْفِرْ لَنَا ذُنُوبَنَا إِنَّا كُنَّا خَاطِئِينَ 12:97
They asked their father to forgive them, that is between him (the father) and his sons, the next verse
12:98 قَالَ سَوْفَ أَسْتَغْفِرُ لَكُمْ رَبِّي ۖ إِنَّهُ هُوَ الْغَفُورُ الرَّحِيمُ

Which means he forgave them by asking God to forgive them too, as God is the all-forgiving, the all-merciful.
Do you ask the dead Imams to forgive you or you asked it from the all-forgiving,the all-merciful





Yes. But when you are reciting that verses, you are who says "Peace be to Nuh, Abraham or Moses .... ".

Why only Nuh and/or Abraham..etc, shouldn't we send peaces to all the messengers one by one, and do you think they need it from us ?



No. 'Your dead ones' in these Hadiths means faithful ones, not Kaffirs. The word ' your' makes this sense.
However when we recite to faithful dead the Tawhid Word(i.e., there is no god but Allah), they( their souls or spirits ) hear it and in Barzakh when angles ask them about their believes, our reciting may helps them.

If he listens after death then we should keep calling him and repeat the words to him so he won't forget what he has to say in the Barzakh.
Does that make sense to you ?
 
yes
I dont care what a rafidhi believes.

In our belief we confirm that sahaba cannot predict futures. So he got this information from prophet Muhammad PBUH.
yes.
we proud that we proud that we follow way of prophet mohammad and Ahlul Bait.
stay in your unknowing my brother but in other world you should answer about your frigid opinions.;)
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The Teacher of Imam Bukhari(Sunna Imam), Naeem Bin Hammad quoted this Hadeeth from Hazrat Ali in his book "Kitab Al Fitan"

please see all of it.:heart:


Excellent video. We need to see more like this here In America. All lives are precious to God and it is a horrible thing that Isis is doing to Christian and Muslim alike. God bless this man for speaking out against such evil. Thank you for sharing this.
 

mojtaba

Active Member
I dont care what a rafidhi believes.

In our belief we confirm that sahaba cannot predict futures. So he got this information from prophet Muhammad PBUH.

"The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) called 'Ali on the Day (of the battle) of At-Ta'if, and spoke privately with him, so the people said: 'His private conversation with his cousin has grown lengthy.' So the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'I did not speak privately with him, rather Allah spoke privately with him.'"
(Tirmidhi, the author of the book says: Abu 'Isa said: This hadith is Hasan( good )...

Jami` at-Tirmidhi, Book 49, Hadith 4092.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Islam has no branches, division in Islam is a man made.
I understand that. I am familiar with the names Sunni and Shia and since his comment was negative toward both of those I was just curious. No offence intended toward anyone.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Yes, he's just a Muslim like me.
So like in Christianity you can be a Christian without being associated with a denomination, you can likewise be a Muslim without a brand name such as Sunni or Shia? I get it. I learn something new every day. Thanks
 

mojtaba

Active Member
They are liars, if they want to feel what Huseyin had felt, they can go to Syria and fight against other groups.
Brother I believe that you are ignorant about the facts.

We as shia are fighting with ISIS and I have friends who went to Syria and fought with them.
We have very Martyrs in this battle.

See: http://presstv.com/Detail/2015/10/13/433268/Iran-Syria-IRGC-Mokhtarband-Hassounizadeh
http://presstv.com/Detail/2015/10/12/433066/Iran-Hamedan-Hamedani-IRGC-funeral-procession-Jafari
 

mojtaba

Active Member
Except that shias will beat each other tomorrow until they bleed :D

Ashura is Bloody Day for Rafidhis. They will slice their own backs and walk like zombies.
A religion is what its scholars say.

Fatwas of Ayatollah Khamenei:

Q1439: Is there any basis in religion for piercing one’s body with weights dangling therefrom, all in the name of commemorating the martyrdom of the Imam Ḥusayn (a.s.)?
A: These acts, which are, inevitably, bound to portray our school of thought in a negative shade, are impermissible.

Q1450: Is hitting oneself with swords ḥalāl if it is done in secret? Or is your fatwā in this regard universal?
A: In addition to the fact that it is not held in the common view as manifestations of mourning and grief and it has no precedent at the lifetime of the Imams (a.s.) and even after that and we have not received any tradition quoted from the Infallibles (a.s.) about any support for this act, be it privately or publicly, this practice would, at the present time, give others a bad image of our school of thought. Therefore, there is no way that it can be considered permissible.

Reference: http://www.leader.ir/tree/print.php?catid=23&nodeid=n5731
 

TunnelPalestine

New Member
Brother I believe that you are ignorant about the facts.

We as shia are fighting with ISIS and I have friends who went to Syria and fought with them.
We have very Martyrs in this battle.

See: http://presstv.com/Detail/2015/10/13/433268/Iran-Syria-IRGC-Mokhtarband-Hassounizadeh
http://presstv.com/Detail/2015/10/12/433066/Iran-Hamedan-Hamedani-IRGC-funeral-procession-Jafari


Really ? So you are figthing ISIS ? US+60 coalition countries + Iran + Cuba + China + Russia VS Isis

but still cant defeat.
 

mojtaba

Active Member
Yes my brother, God will see our records and what we have done, yes everything is recorded and preserved for the judgement day.

Brother, the first part of the verse is about this world and is not about the Hereafter.

Holy Qur'an, Sura At-Tawba, verse 105:

Part one{And say, ‘Go on working: Allah will see your conduct, and His Apostle and the faithful [as well],} Part two {and you will be returned to the Knower of the sensible and the Unseen, and then He will inform you concerning what you used to do.'}


Allah says: 'O people, go on working and know that when you will perform any doing, Allah and His Apostle and the faithful will see your conduct in this world, and you will die( and leave this world) and be returned to Allah and then He will inform you concerning what you used to do.


If your interpretation was correct, the verse should be:

And say, ‘Go on working: You will be returned to the Knower of the sensible and the Unseen, and Allah will see your conduct, and His Apostle and the faithful [as well] and then He will inform you concerning what you used to do.'


Also the verse 10:61 proves that Allah sees our conduct now, not in the judgement day .(You do not engage in any work, neither do you recite any part of the Quran, nor do you perform any deed without Our being witness over you when you are engaged therein.)

But why Apostle and the faithful see our conducts?
Because they are the witnesses of the judgement day.
Holy Qur'an, 39:69
And the earth will shine with the light of its Lord, and the record [of deeds] will be placed, and the prophets and the witnesses will be brought, and it will be judged between them(people) in truth, and they will not be wronged.

Do you know Arabic, they didn't ask the messenger to tell God to forgive them but they asked the forgiveness from God and the messenger forgave them too.

Read the explanation http://www.alro7.net/ayaq.php?aya=64&sourid=4
Brother, I read the link. It proves my opinion!. I translate two parts of the text of the link:
وقوله: { ولو أنهم إذا ظلموا أنفسهم} الآية، يرشد تعالى العصاة والمذنبين إذا وقع منهم الخطأ والعصيان أن يأتوا إلى الرسول صلى اللّه عليه وسلم فيستغفروا اللّه عنده ويسألوه أن يستغفر لهم​
And the saying of Allah:{Had they, when they wronged themselves, come to you and pleaded to Allah for forgiveness, and the Apostle had pleaded for them [to Allah]for forgiveness, they would have surely found Allah all-clement, all-merciful.}, Allah Ta'ala recommends the sinners that when they do a sin, they should go to the Apostle and when they are with him, they should ask the forgiveness from Allah and ask the Apostle to he also plead with Allah to forgive them.

وقد ذكر جماعة منهم الشيخ أبو منصور الصباغ في كتابه (الشامل) الحكاية المشهورة عن العتبي قال: كنت جالساً عند قبر النبي صلى اللّه عليه وسلم فجاء أعرابي فقال: السلام عليك يا رسول اللّه، سمعت اللّه يقول: { ولو أنهم إذ ظلموا أنفسهم جاءوك فاستغفروا اللّه واستغفر لهم الرسول لوجدوا اللّه تواباً رحيما} وقد جئتك مستغفراً لذنبي مستشفعاً بك إلى ربي​
and a group that Sheykh Abu Mansur is between them[ in his book(i.e. Al-Shamil)], mentioned a famous story from Al-'Utba: I was siting by the grave of the Messenger of Allah, then an Arab came and said: ' Peace to you O Messenger of Allah. I heard form Allah that said( on Qur'an ):'Had they, when they wronged themselves, come to you and pleaded to Allah for forgiveness, and the Apostle had pleaded for them [to Allah]for forgiveness, they would have surely found Allah all-clement, all-merciful.'.

Read the verses in Arabic
قَالُوا يَا أَبَانَا اسْتَغْفِرْ لَنَا ذُنُوبَنَا إِنَّا كُنَّا خَاطِئِينَ 12:97
They asked their father to forgive them, that is between him (the father) and his sons, the next verse
12:98 قَالَ سَوْفَ أَسْتَغْفِرُ لَكُمْ رَبِّي ۖ إِنَّهُ هُوَ الْغَفُورُ الرَّحِيمُ
Which means he forgave them by asking God to forgive them too, as God is the all-forgiving, the all-merciful.
Do you ask the dead Imams to forgive you or you asked it from the all-forgiving,the all-merciful
My brother, you are Arab and you should know the difference between 'اسْتَغْفِرْ' and 'اغْفِرْ'. The first(i.e. اسْتَغْفِرْ) is in the Bab of the Istif-'al(اِسْتِفْعال) and means 'Plead for forgiveness ' and the other(i.e.اغْفِرْ ) is in the Bab of the 'If-'al(اِفْعال) and means 'Forgive'.

So we read the verse in Arabic:
قَالُوا يَا أَبَانَا اسْتَغْفِرْ لَنَا ذُنُوبَنَا إِنَّا كُنَّا خَاطِئِينَ 12:97
They asked their father that he pleads [with Allah] for forgiveness of their sins.
12:98 قَالَ سَوْفَ أَسْتَغْفِرُ لَكُمْ رَبِّي ۖ إِنَّهُ هُوَ الْغَفُورُ الرَّحِيمُ
And their father, prophet Jacob said to them: I shall plead with my Lord to forgive you.

You asked: "Do you ask the dead Imams to forgive you or you asked it from the all-forgiving,the all-merciful".
Brother, I said you that Prophet and 12 infallible Imams are not dead( Note that They died, exept Imam Mahdi, but not the death that you describe it) *. Also we do not ask Imams to forgive us. We ask the divine Imams to plead with Allah for our forgiveness.

*
Holy Qur'an, Sura Al-i-Imran:
Do not suppose those who were slain in the way of Allah to be dead; no, they are living and provided for near their Lord, (169) exulting in what Allah has given them out of His grace, and rejoicing for those who have not yet joined them from [those left] behind them, that they will have no fear, nor will they grieve.(170)

Why only Nuh and/or Abraham..etc, shouldn't we send peaces to all the messengers one by one, and do you think they need it from us ?
Two questions:
1.Why only Nuh and/or Abraham..etc, shouldn't we send peaces to all the messengers one by one?

A:Holy Qur'an, 37:181
Peace be to the all Apostles!

2.Do you think they need it from us?

A:Ask your question from Allah. Because He hisself says you that you should send peace to your Prophet:
Holy Qur'an, 33:56
Indeed Allah and His angels bless the Prophet; O you who have faith! Invoke blessings on him and invoke Peace upon him in a worthy manner.

If he listens after death then we should keep calling him and repeat the words to him so he won't forget what he has to say in the Barzakh.
Does that make sense to you ?
The Hadith on my post:
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (sawaws) as saying:
Recite" There is no god but Allah" to your deads(before graving them).
If you read the part which is in parenthesis(i.e. before graving them), you would not ask me this question.

Before graving( and also some times after that), the soul and spirite of the dead is in Barzakh world( with a Barzakh body ), but his/her soul has some tendencies towards this world(i.e. his terrestrial body). So reciting the Tawhid Word(i.e. there is no god but Allah) to his/her terrestrial body may be helpul for him/her(i.e. his/her soul and spirite with Barzakh body), if he/she(i.e. his/her soul and spirite with terrestrial body) was a good Muslim.

The following verse can prove this:
[9:84] And never pray over any of them when he dies, nor stand at his graveside. They indeed defied Allah and His Apostle and died as transgressors.
 
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FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Brother, the first part of the verse is about this world and is not about the Hereafter.

Holy Qur'an, Sura At-Tawba, verse 105:

Part one{And say, ‘Go on working: Allah will see your conduct, and His Apostle and the faithful [as well],} Part two {and you will be returned to the Knower of the sensible and the Unseen, and then He will inform you concerning what you used to do.'}

Allah says: 'O people, go on working and know that when you will perform any doing, Allah and His Apostle and the faithful will see your conduct in this world, and you will die( and leave this world) and be returned to Allah and then He will inform you concerning what you used to do.

If your interpretation was correct, the verse should be:

And say, ‘Go on working: You will be returned to the Knower of the sensible and the Unseen, and Allah will see your conduct, and His Apostle and the faithful [as well] and then He will inform you concerning what you used to do.'

Brother, the sentence is very clear except if we want to make it otherwise, think it yourself and don't depend on what some scholars say or said.

"Allah will see" means future tense, it means later on, "he's watching your deeds" is different than saying "he'll watch your deeds" and then saying when you come to me i'll show you what you used to do which means your deeds were recorded, don't complicate it just to satisfy some scholars, they aren't angels, they're similar to me and you, they do mistakes too.

Also the verse 10:61 proves that Allah sees our conduct now, not in the judgement day .(You do not engage in any work, neither do you recite any part of the Quran, nor do you perform any deed without Our being witness over you when you are engaged therein.)

Yes all our deeds are recorded and will be seen in the judgement day.

That Day, We will seal over their mouths, and their hands will speak to Us, and their feet will testify about what they used to earn.(36:65)
 
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