I'm not sure what I believe anymore re God, gods, worship

[Jainarayan]

Dont you think, Most of the Hindu deities would have been pious men who might have been deified too?

:yes: Yes, very likely. As "they" say, there is usually some true basis in myth and legend. There is some evidence (of course, the source escapes me now ) that there was a historical Krishna. There is, after all, a historical Dvārakā. There may have also been a historical Rāma, because there is a historical Ayodhyā. And it's a near certainty there was a historical Kurukshetra War, the great war of the Mahābhārata.

 

[Awoon]

When I kicked Christianity to the curb, I became an agnostic panendeist. That's not a contradiction because I always believed (the imperfective aspect) there is a God, though I cannot prove or know for a fact It exists. I can only "feel" something is there. Yet for some reason I was always drawn to the colorful depictions and stories of Hindu deities (primarily) with other smatterings of polytheism. These all represented my belief that God can and does take any form It wishes. And there was (the imperfective again) the desire to have a less than remote deistic God.

I've had a lot of good things happen, totally unexpected, to resolve things when the chips were down. Do I think there are deities that did this? I don't know. If there are real deities who've provided this help, am I turning my back on them? I don't know, but I hope not. Do I think there is cosmic karma and justice, and rebirth? That's a definite yes. What do I think of prayer, other than to say "thank you" to whomever/whatever is out there? Silliness, because God knows what we need before we ask. These are taken from the Wikipedia article and pretty much sum up my views of prayer:

• ...God has created the universe perfectly, so no amount of supplication, request, or begging can change the fundamental nature of the universe.

• 
  
  [*]...Such prayers are often appreciative (that is, "Thank you for ...") rather than supplicative (that is, "Please God grant me ...").

One exception to this is that I think that supplicative prayer is not to God, but for ourselves to be mindful. For example, the prayer of St. Francis; "asato ma sad gamaya... ", and such. I think these are more talking to ourselves than asking God for anything.

What do I think of rituals, invocations, chanting, and so on? Well, a passage from the Hua Hu Ching of Lao Tzu sums it up (let Tao = God). In part:

Chanting is no more holy than listening to the murmur of a stream; counting prayer beads no more sacred than simply breathing; religious robes no more spiritual than work clothes. If you wish to attain oneness with the Tao, don’t get caught up in spiritual superficialities. Instead, live a quiet and simple life, free of ideas and concepts. Find contentment in the practice of undiscriminating virtue, the only true power. Giving to others selflessly and anonymously, radiating light throughout the world and illuminating your own darkness, your virtue becomes a sanctuary for yourself and all beings. This is what is meant by embodying the Tao.

The Buddha said:

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

I feel nothing in temple either. I have an altar, which I've come to view only as a decorative element which reminds me of an otherworldly plane of existence. I don't think it's a special gathering place for deities, though I do light candles and incense and make a series of small bows. But I've come to neglect reciting prayers and slokas (verses). I actually have little shrines all over the house, because I've collected too many statues and murthis, and have colorful pictures of deities on almost every wall.

So where am I; what am I? I'm leaning towards agnostic panendeism again. But what the hell do I do about all my statues and pictures!?

Make up a new label or just pick one of the flavors of the month. However You will still be You.

 

[Jainarayan]

Make up a new label our just pick one of the flavors of the month.

If I had to pick a label, or rather a description, it would be what I have by my user name... Dharmic Deist and Panendeist. I believe in the basic tenets of the Dharmic religions, which really are no different than in any other religions. There's that thread of Hermeticism and Universalism: Ekaṃ sat viprāh bahudhā vadanti - "[There is] One Truth the wise know by many names." - Rig Veda 1.164.46 and "84,000 Dharma-doors" according to Buddhism.

However You will still be You.

There's the rub... I was becoming not me. I've been trying to be something I'm not, something that I've come to know doesn't suit me. At least not how it's "supposed" to be practiced. I have no problem accepting devas, angels, saints, genius loci, buddhas, bodhisattvas, and other supramundane and celestial beings. I think they are the helpers. I've always believed this, but suppressed it in the past few years.

 

[Jainarayan]

Kalicharan Tuvij asked a question in another thread that I think is best answered here.

namaste Jai ji

curious to know: the meaning of Dharmic Deism, and Panendeist?

Dharmic Deist: I hold with the ideals of Sanātana Dharma, but my deep-seated deism is surfacing again:

the acknowledgment of the existence of a god upon the testimony of reason and of nature and its laws, and the rejection of the possibility of supernatural intervention in human affairs and of special revelation.

I didn't know if Sanātana Dharmic Deism would fit in the religion field. I'll try.

Panendeist: All is in God, but a God as described above in deism.

I've really always believed that God neither needs nor requires direct worship: "Nara Seva Narayana Seva, service to man is service to God." No amount of asking, pleading, supplicating will change the course of events, because God knows what we need before we ask. This is kind of a departure (surprised!? ) from traditional deism which says that God has no interest in the world. If we pray for something, because God is within us all, I see it that we are talking to ourselves. For example, when I ask for help to overcome some obstacle, I am digging into myself to find it within myself to solve the problem. Yet prayer in deism is more of thanks and praise. I think it's less for God's benefit than it is for ours; to always be "mindful", a word Thich Nhat Hanh always uses.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

If we pray for something, because God is within us all, I see it that we are talking to ourselves. For example, when I ask for help to overcome some obstacle, I am digging into myself to find it within myself to solve the problem. Yet prayer in deism is more of thanks and praise. I think it's less for God's benefit than it is for ours; to always be "mindful", a word Thich Nhat Hanh always uses.

This.

I don't always remember it, but I try to. I try to remind myself that everything I've ever needed (To be, to know, etc) is within my capability to achieve, by the belief that God is a thread running through all of us. The constant push and pull of forgetting and remembering this is what causes a lot of strife.

I commend you for your open and honest reassessment of your beliefs. A lot of people settle for what is comfortable and rarely face any niggling doubts that maybe in the back of their minds because they fear "undoing" something important about themselves. But this willful ignorance is the work of the ego. Keep challenging it, keep facing it and one day - maybe not in this life - you'll hit on "it". We all will. That is one of the great, hopeful qualities of Dharmic religions. There is always hope.


:camp:

 

[Vouthon]

I've really always believed that God neither needs nor requires direct worship: "Nara Seva Narayana Seva, service to man is service to God." No amount of asking, pleading, supplicating will change the course of events, because God knows what we need before we ask. This is kind of a departure (surprised!? ) from traditional deism which says that God has no interest in the world. If we pray for something, because God is within us all, I see it that we are talking to ourselves. For example, when I ask for help to overcome some obstacle, I am digging into myself to find it within myself to solve the problem. Yet prayer in deism is more of thanks and praise. I think it's less for God's benefit than it is for ours; to always be "mindful", a word Thich Nhat Hanh always uses.

Hello Jain :clap

Just to say, I very much like what you've wrote above. Its so akin to what Meister Eckhart, a great mystic of my religion, preached from his own understanding that it seems to lend credence to the view that such a stage of thinking is a testament to a sharpened insight into things.

Compare what you said with what he said (and indeed his words are echoed by great minds in many different faiths and non-faiths):

"...God has stood in unmoved detachment from all eternity, and still so stands. All the prayers and good works that a human being can do in time affect God’s detachment as little as if no prayers or good works had ever occurred in time, and God never became more ready to give or more or more inclined towards a person than if that person had never uttered the prayer or performed the good works...When I pray for aught, my prayer goes for naught; when I pray for naught, I pray as I ought. When I am united with the God within which all beings exist whether past, present or future, they are all equally near and equally one; they are all in God and all in me. Then there’s no need to think of Henry or Conrad...

Human beings who love God as they ought and must (whether they would or not) must love their fellow human beings as themselves, rejoicing in their joys as their own joys, and desiring their honour as much as their own honour, and loving a stranger as one of their own...I ask, 'What is the prayer of a detached heart?'

My answer is that detachment and purity cannot pray, for whoever prays wants God to grant him something, or else wants God to take something from him. But a detached heart desires nothing at all, nor has it anything it wants to get rid of. Therefore it is free of all prayers, or its prayer consists of nothing but being uniform with God. That is all its prayer...Those who pray for anything but God or to do with God, pray wrongly: when I pray for nothing, then I pray rightly, and that prayer is proper and powerful. But if anyone prays for anything else, he is praying to a false God...I never pray so well as when I pray for nothing and for nobody, not for Heinrich or Conrad. Those who pray truly pray to God in truth and spirit, that is to say, in the Holy Spirit...

The most powerful prayer, one well nigh omnipotent, and the worthiest work of all is the outcome of a quiet mind. The more free the mind is the more powerful, the worthier, the deeper, the more telling and more perfect the prayer is. To the free mind all things are possible. What is a free mind? A free mind is one which nothing weighs on, nothing worries, which, free from ties and from all self-seeking, untroubled and unfettered by anything, is wholly merged into the will of God and dead to its own...

Apprehend God in all things, for God is in all things. Every single creature is full of God and is a book about God. Every creature is a word of God. If I spent enough time with the tiniest creature-- even a caterpillar-- I would never have to prepare a sermon. So full of God is every creature. We ought to understand God equally in all things, for God is equally in all things. All beings love one another. All creatures are interdependent...God wants nothing of you but the gift of a peaceful heart...A man may go into the field and say his prayer and be aware of God, or, he may be in Church and be aware of God; but, if he is more aware of Him because he is in a quiet place, that is his own deficiency and not due to God, Who is alike present in all things and places, and is willing to give Himself everywhere so far as lies in Him. He knows God rightly who knows Him everywhere...

People often say to me, 'Pray for me'. And I think, 'Why do you go out? Why do you not stay within yourself and draw on your own treasure? For you have the whole truth in its essence within you.' That we may thus truly stay within, that we may possess all truth immediately, without distinction, in true blessedness, may God help us...

All that God asks you most pressingly is to go out of yourself - and let God be God in you..."

- Meister Eckhart (c. 1260 – c. 1327), Catholic mystic & Dominican priest

** Above extracted from different parts of Eckhart's writings **


And from his disciple Suso:

"...People who are successful in the breakthrough, which one must anticipate by withdrawing from oneself and all things … such people's minds and hearts are so completely lost in God that they somehow have no consciousness of self except by perceiving self and all things in their first origin...In order to attain perfect union, we must divest ourselves of God...The common belief about God, that He is a great Taskmaster, whose function is to reward or punish, is cast out by perfect love; and in this sense the spiritual man does divest himself of God as conceived of by most people...And the will of God tastes so good to them, and they attain such majesty from it, that everything that God has ordained for them is so welcome to them that they neither want nor desire anything else... It [prayer] is to be understood [anew] as the ordered withdrawal from selfhood in favour of the will of the exalted Godhead..."

- Blessed Henry Suso (1300-1366), Catholic mystic & Dominican priest

The will of God is the acceptance of the present moment; the embracing of what arises in each moment with grace. No more begging or beseeching for change.

I am very impressed by this development in your spiritual cognition, Jain. Very impressed and tremendously happy for you.

Wherever the wind moves you, may you have peace my friend. :bow:

 

[The Wizard]

When I kicked Christianity to the curb, I became an agnostic panendeist. That's not a contradiction because I always believed (the imperfective aspect) there is a God, though I cannot prove or know for a fact It exists. I can only "feel" something is there. Yet for some reason I was always drawn to the colorful depictions and stories of Hindu deities (primarily) with other smatterings of polytheism. These all represented my belief that God can and does take any form It wishes. And there was (the imperfective again) the desire to have a less than remote deistic God.

I've had a lot of good things happen, totally unexpected, to resolve things when the chips were down. Do I think there are deities that did this? I don't know. If there are real deities who've provided this help, am I turning my back on them? I don't know, but I hope not. Do I think there is cosmic karma and justice, and rebirth? That's a definite yes. What do I think of prayer, other than to say "thank you" to whomever/whatever is out there? Silliness, because God knows what we need before we ask. These are taken from the Wikipedia article and pretty much sum up my views of prayer:

• ...God has created the universe perfectly, so no amount of supplication, request, or begging can change the fundamental nature of the universe.

• 
  
  [*]...Such prayers are often appreciative (that is, "Thank you for ...") rather than supplicative (that is, "Please God grant me ...").

One exception to this is that I think that supplicative prayer is not to God, but for ourselves to be mindful. For example, the prayer of St. Francis; "asato ma sad gamaya... ", and such. I think these are more talking to ourselves than asking God for anything.

What do I think of rituals, invocations, chanting, and so on? Well, a passage from the Hua Hu Ching of Lao Tzu sums it up (let Tao = God). In part:

Chanting is no more holy than listening to the murmur of a stream; counting prayer beads no more sacred than simply breathing; religious robes no more spiritual than work clothes. If you wish to attain oneness with the Tao, don’t get caught up in spiritual superficialities. Instead, live a quiet and simple life, free of ideas and concepts. Find contentment in the practice of undiscriminating virtue, the only true power. Giving to others selflessly and anonymously, radiating light throughout the world and illuminating your own darkness, your virtue becomes a sanctuary for yourself and all beings. This is what is meant by embodying the Tao.

The Buddha said:

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

I feel nothing in temple either. I have an altar, which I've come to view only as a decorative element which reminds me of an otherworldly plane of existence. I don't think it's a special gathering place for deities, though I do light candles and incense and make a series of small bows. But I've come to neglect reciting prayers and slokas (verses). I actually have little shrines all over the house, because I've collected too many statues and murthis, and have colorful pictures of deities on almost every wall.

So where am I; what am I? I'm leaning towards agnostic panendeism again. But what the hell do I do about all my statues and pictures!?

There are great truths found in many religions. Perhaps it was all of one source in the beginning. Then labels, names and dividing words split it into a million fragments to which made a compartmentalization of sorts and of wich made most of it, well, ineffective and boring. I'm with the alligator on this one. Follow the truth, forget the labels. For, it does not care on bit about what words it's called or who thinks they own it...imo.

 

[Jainarayan]

I'm on my phone right now so my editor capabilities are limited. But I want to acknowledge FH's, The Wizard's & Vouthon's posts. I appreciate your perspectives & the excerpt from Eckhart. I will read that more in depth on a real screen. Lol

Understand that I don't mean to denigrate or mock anyone's beliefs. I realized that the things I was trying very hard to believe and accept are no different than what drove me away from the Roman Catholic & Eastern Orthodox Churches! ... The must-do-must-not-do & man-made rules.

Yesterday I sat on one of those huge granite rocks at the beach, and felt that thread FH mentioned. A thread and connection running through the rock, the people, the ocean, the sand, the sky, the sun. Maybe it was an endorphin rush, but I felt a presence I never felt in any church or in temple during any Mass or puja. I realized God cannot be contained in a building or within stone or metal though he is there as well. Sitting on that rock being a lightning rod & conduit for God was my puja.

I'll still light candles, incense, & keep pictures & murtis, because they are reminders. Sri Krishna says it is difficult for embodied beings to alway be mindful of the Unmanifest; i accept that they are mindfulness tools, but for me they are no more than that.

So there's my basic beliefs, which have re-surfaced. Not mention it being a Monday morning brainfart.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

First, I'm of course going to agree with crossfire and Luis.

Second, did you say, like me, that you're Autistic? We have this unnatural and obsessive need to label and organize everything. I'm really bad about it. However, instead of trying to put yourself into a box, why don't you drop any and all labels, and just be yourself? If you are Autistic, that's much easier said than done, but you already have the tools necessary to do so, it's just going to take a little more work.

The great Zen masters taught that one should, upon reaching a certain level of enlightenment, drop all labels, even of Zen and Buddhism. I think this really applies here. Maybe you're not really searching for yourself, maybe you're dropping the false sense of ego.

 

[crossfire]

I've really always believed that God neither needs nor requires direct worship: "Nara Seva Narayana Seva, service to man is service to God." No amount of asking, pleading, supplicating will change the course of events, because God knows what we need before we ask. This is kind of a departure (surprised!? ) from traditional deism which says that God has no interest in the world. If we pray for something, because God is within us all, I see it that we are talking to ourselves. For example, when I ask for help to overcome some obstacle, I am digging into myself to find it within myself to solve the problem. Yet prayer in deism is more of thanks and praise. I think it's less for God's benefit than it is for ours; to always be "mindful", a word Thich Nhat Hanh always uses.

One statement by Thich Nhat Hahn from Living Buddha, Living Christ, the last line from Chapter Two:

When Mindfulness is in you, the Holy Spirit is in you, and your friends will see it, not just by what you say, but through your whole being."​

 

[metis]

My wife just blew my mind yesterday as she said she no longer wants to attend her church that I've attended with her for 40 years now. I told her that she could find a new church to attend and that I'd support her on that, but then she shocked me again by saying she just doesn't accept the "Jesus as savior" part any longer, nor is she convinced that Jesus was the "only son of God".

I knew she was doing a lot of questioning, but she pretty well hid how serious it had become. She said at least at this time her only services will be attending synagogue with me, but she isn't yet sure where this is all going to go.

 

[Jainarayan]

First, I'm of course going to agree with crossfire and Luis.

I've also thought about what they said, and without sounding full of myself, I feel exactly what's mentioned in the article:

Self-view - The speculative view that a so-called self exists in the five aggregates (physical forms, feelings/sensations, perception, mental formations and consciousness) is eradicated because the Sotāpanna gains insight into the selfless nature of the aggregates.

Simply put, I am not who and what I think I am, or to the phrase "I am not my body". I do believe in atman and a Self of non-dependent origin, i.e. Brahman (maybe = Adi-Buddha or Tao).

Skeptical Doubt - Doubt about the Buddha and his teaching is eradicated because the Sotāpanna personally experiences the true nature of reality through insight, and this insight confirms the accuracy of the Buddha’s teaching.

I get these fleeting feelings, like I had yesterday. I'm getting them more frequently. I'm also noticing how I'm "letting go" more. Letting go of what I think I am and where I think I am. Of course I still have attachments, e.g. caring for my pets. I worry what would happen to them if I were gone. But the Buddha, Lao Tse, Jesus and Krishna all said the same thing about the true nature of reality, and all of them were correct.

Clinging to rites and rituals - Eradication of the view that one becomes pure simply through performing rituals (animal sacrifices, ablutions, chanting, etc.) or adhering to rigid moralism or relying on a god for non-causal delivery. Rites and rituals now function more to obscure, than to support the Right View of the Sotāpanna's now opened dharma eye. The Sotāpanna realizes that deliverance can be won only through the practice of the Noble Eightfold Path.

I think this needs no further explanation.

Second, did you say, like me, that you're Autistic? We have this unnatural and obsessive need to label and organize everything. I'm really bad about it. However, instead of trying to put yourself into a box, why don't you drop any and all labels, and just be yourself? If you are Autistic, that's much easier said than done, but you already have the tools necessary to do so, it's just going to take a little more work.

I have not been clinically diagnosed, but I have virtually all the classic signs of Asperger's. But what would diagnosis do? It is what it is, and I am what I am. It's not going to change; I have to learn to work with it and manage it. I also have ocpd. So yes, I am obsessed with categorizing and labeling: mise en place twisted and run amok. Being on Weight Watchers, for example, God forbid (deist, not atheist ) I should measure out 60 g of cereal instead of the 55 g the label suggests as a serving. It is indeed hard to stop labeling and categorizing.

The great Zen masters taught that one should, upon reaching a certain level of enlightenment, drop all labels, even of Zen and Buddhism. I think this really applies here. Maybe you're not really searching for yourself, maybe you're dropping the false sense of ego.

I think you've hit on something. Again not to sound full of myself and arrogantly think I found all the answers, I think I'm finding the answers for me. Those answers have been inside me all along. But I still like the pretty pictures of the deities.

 

[Jainarayan]

One statement by Thich Nhat Hahn from Living Buddha, Living Christ, the last line from Chapter Two:

When Mindfulness is in you, the Holy Spirit is in you, and your friends will see it, not just by what you say, but through your whole being."​

Oh my goddesses, I love Thay! I have to read Living Buddha, Living Christ again. He is so simple and to the point. You know, he has a follow on book Going Home: Jesus and Buddha as Brothers: Thich Nhat Hanh: 9781573228305: Amazon.com: Books It's on my shelf waiting to be read. Paramahansa Yogananda has said very similar things.

 

[Jainarayan]

My wife just blew my mind yesterday as she said she no longer wants to attend her church that I've attended with her for 40 years now. I told her that she could find a new church to attend and that I'd support her on that, but then she shocked me again by saying she just doesn't accept the "Jesus as savior" part any longer, nor is she convinced that Jesus was the "only son of God".

I knew she was doing a lot of questioning, but she pretty well hid how serious it had become. She said at least at this time her only services will be attending synagogue with me, but she isn't yet sure where this is all going to go.

Sometimes it takes decades for these feelings to surface, and to act on them. Hey, I was 38 years old when I stopped denying being gay. I don't know exactly when I stopped accepting the Jesus-as-savior-only-son-of-God bit, but it wasn't hard to do. I love what Jesus had to say, however.

While it's true I'm coming to disbelieve in a personal God, I do believe there have been persons throughout history who have been in tune with who or what God is, and have been enlightened enough to teach.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

Just a question to promote more exploration : How difficult would it be for you, knowing your own personality, to move through the world without some kind of label (If only for your self, not necessarily something you had to announce to the world)?

I appreciate and respect those who can cast off labels. It is something I wish I could do for myself. At this juncture though, I feel like I am not prepared to "make the leap" as it were. I may not feel like I need a label, but when the rest of the world tries to "figure me out" a label gives them a starting point. Now, one can say, "World be damned!" (and I sometimes do) But the human brain's need to categorize the world as a tool for simplification seems like a tough thing to overcome.

You've got me thinking out loud, that's all, so feel free to ignore me.

:camp:

 

[Jainarayan]

Just a question to promote more exploration : How difficult would it be for you, knowing your own personality, to move through the world without some kind of label (If only for your self, not necessarily something you had to announce to the world)?

Actually, not difficult at all. You see, I am very pliable and easily influenced by others' thoughts and opinions. Hence the conflicts. Or rather, I can let myself be influenced until the novelty wears off and I think "hey, wait a minute... ".

I said either in the o.p. or early on in this thread, or somewhere else, that I was un-conflicted when I believed the deities were simply other-worldly powers and/or faces on the forces of Nature, i.e. God. It was when I tried to fit in, as it were, to a category or group or label that conflicts arose. And that's because the practices or requirements of being in that category and labeled as such were not in synch with my true beliefs.

To make a long story short (too late )... I can, having admitted it to myself, move through life without a label. So I guess that means I can't post anywhere on RF anymore. :sad4:

Seriously, I can easily use the hackneyed and oft-dismissed term SBNR... Spritual But Not Religious if someone asks my religion/beliefs. Not that it's any of their business anyway.

I appreciate and respect those who can cast off labels. It is something I wish I could do for myself. At this juncture though, I feel like I am not prepared to "make the leap" as it were. I may not feel like I need a label, but when the rest of the world tries to "figure me out" a label gives them a starting point. Now, one can say, "World be damned!" (and I sometimes do) But the human brain's need to categorize the world as a tool for simplification seems like a tough thing to overcome.

You've got me thinking out loud, that's all, so feel free to ignore me.

Valid points make, you do. :yoda: Humans seem to need to categorize. You know my penchant for studying languages. All human languages follow grammatical rules and structures, most of which are in common with totally unrelated languages. For example, Swahili has grammatical gender and verb conjugations. Hungarian has grammatical gender and verb conjugations. OK, so Chinese doesn't... there's an exception to every rule. Swahili and Hungarian are two totally unrelated languages, somehow somewhere sometime invented and codified into grammatical categories by humans. We just can't get away from categorizing, and by extension, labeling.

 

[metis]

Sometimes it takes decades for these feelings to surface, and to act on them. Hey, I was 38 years old when I stopped denying being gay. I don't know exactly when I stopped accepting the Jesus-as-savior-only-son-of-God bit, but it wasn't hard to do. I love what Jesus had to say, however.

While it's true I'm coming to disbelieve in a personal God, I do believe there have been persons throughout history who have been in tune with who or what God is, and have been enlightened enough to teach.

I hear ya, and I share your belief in that I really do believe there are many in all religions and philosophies who are enlightened in the sense that they give us somethings to really think about.

 

[Jainarayan]

Have you read about Hermeticism? A main tenet is prisca theologia

... the doctrine within the field of comparative religious studies that asserts that a single, true, theology exists, which threads through all religions, and which was given by God to man in antiquity.

This could explain the similarities of teachings over the millennia in different cultures.

 

[metis]

Have you read about Hermeticism? A main tenet is prisca theologia This could explain the similarities of teachings over the millennia in different cultures.

Yes, I have run across this before, and I guess I can say that it at the least seems like a hypothetical possibility.

 

[metis]

Just a question to promote more exploration : How difficult would it be for you, knowing your own personality, to move through the world without some kind of label (If only for your self, not necessarily something you had to announce to the world)?

I appreciate and respect those who can cast off labels. It is something I wish I could do for myself. At this juncture though, I feel like I am not prepared to "make the leap" as it were. I may not feel like I need a label, but when the rest of the world tries to "figure me out" a label gives them a starting point. Now, one can say, "World be damned!" (and I sometimes do) But the human brain's need to categorize the world as a tool for simplification seems like a tough thing to overcome.

You've got me thinking out loud, that's all, so feel free to ignore me.

:camp:

There are a great many "Buddhists" who do not like to be called "Buddhist" or do not want their leanings being called "Buddhism". What's in a name? Also, "Buddhism" is very fluid, but assigning it a name makes it sound fixed.