Ignorance Doesn't Excuse Your Sin Sonny. Off to Hell You Go

[arthra]

In another thread one of the members said "A lot of sin is done out of ignorance."

Question: If what one does out of ignorance of its status as a sin, is it truly sinning? Wouldn't ignorance be a mitigating factor of sinning? Or does god go along with the legal principle of Ignorantia juris non excusa, ignorance of the law excuses not?
"Too bad you were unaware that foolish talking is a sin blabbermouth (Ephesians 5:4) Off to hell with you now."
.

If you read Ephesians 5:4 it says

4 nor filthiness, nor foolish talking, or jesting, which are not befitting: but rather giving of thanks.

We should probably check what Ephesians 5:3 says as well...

3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as becometh saints;

So in my view the verse above appears to be one of proper comportment "as becometh saints" than it does to your topic.

Is there some foolishness and jesting going on...? Probably so...

 

[Thief]

Yes i have experienced Truth, but I cannot tell you what it is, because it was an experience in Truth, as soon as I try to conceptualize it, its is no longer the Truth, this is why no religion can hold the truth.

i have no religion

i suppose you do not?

 

[psychoslice]

i have no religion

i suppose you do not?

No I don't, It can be a good thing for those when starting of, its like a stepping stone, you just keep stepping from one stone to the next, until you are home.

 

[Muffled]

[QUOTE="Skwim, post: 5088052, member: 23688"]Just as there's the possibility that they won't be informed. And, exactly where is the justice for those who've been saddled with honest questions and doubts about the veracity of the sin/salvation operation, have decided it isn't true, and went on with their lives believing so, when compared to the lucky soul who's just died, has met god himself, and has no stake in not believing--the stake being remaining honest to one's self despite the threat of hell. If given the option, I'd prefer not to hear of the sin/salvation operation, live my life unencumbered with questions and doubts, and be asked at the very last moment if I accepted Jesus as my savior, the answer of which would impose no burden on me whatsoever.

Nope, the sin/salvation operation as you imagine it is a flawed one, unless that is, god doesn't give a fart in the wind about compassion and fairness, which truthfully, having read about some of the stuff he did, isn't hard to imagine at all.


.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps but I believe it isn't something that you may ascertain. Only GOd knows whether people will be informed or not and what that means for their future.

I believe that is a choice. One can choose to believe in sin or one can choose to believe in salvation from sin. A person is responsible for his choices.

I believe it looks a lot more like lying to oneself.

I doubt God will allow you to play that kind of deceitful game with Him. It might be what you would prefer but it isn't going to work with the God who knows your every thought and motive.

I believe your conclusions do not follow because your premises are incorrect.

 

[Skwim]

Perhaps but I believe it isn't something that you may ascertain. Only GOd knows whether people will be informed or not and what that means for their future.

But the "perhaps" remains. You still can't say with any kind of certainty that everyone is informed, leaving the possibility that some people truly don't know how to avoid hell. And the possibility that they will be informed is still just a possibility, which means that there's the possibility that god will assign people to hell although they are ignorant of how to avoid it.

I believe that is a choice. One can choose to believe in sin or one can choose to believe in salvation from sin. A person is responsible for his choices.

So you believe everyone thinks alike? Ever ask yourself why everyone doesn't vote the way you do? Is it because, without good reason, they simply choose to do so, willy nilly? Or could it be that after considering all the factors before them they simply came to a reasoned, but far different, conclusion? Why is it that your way of assessment and reasoning has to be the only correct one, which, if you ask me, would be pretty egotistical.

I believe it looks a lot more like lying to oneself.

Of course it does because only your way of thinking is truthful and correct.

And that people who lie to themselves knowingly do so. Ever hear of people knowingly deceive themselves on purpose. "I know X is true, but I'm going to deceive to myself into thinking X is false." Can you understand how ridiculous this is? Which brings up the point of culpability. Think god should hold people culpable for choosing X rather than Y when their thinking processes are such that they could never choose Y? Suppose god doesn't think the way you voted was right. Think he should hold you culpable for not voting other than the way you did?

I doubt God will allow you to play that kind of deceitful game with Him. It might be what you would prefer but it isn't going to work with the God who knows your every thought and motive.

Please reread. It isn't a decision one makes, but a preference of condition. If there are two distinct possibilities over which I have no control I prefer that condition A prevail rather than condition B.

I believe your conclusions do not follow because your premises are incorrect.

Just to be fair to you, exactly which premises are these?


.

 

[Thief]

they, who are not informed...are ignorant
they, who choose to ignore are profoundly ignorant

you can fix the first.....not the second

 

[Ben Avraham]

Ignorance doesn't excuse your sin sonny; so, off to hell you go.

True that ignorance does not excuse any one of his sins but, one does not go to hell aka the grave because he has committed a sin. Thousands of children throughout the world go to hell without having ever committed a single sin. The grave is the only hell that exists. That's what is called Sheol in Hebrew.

 

[Thief]

True that ignorance does not excuse any one of his sins but, one does not go to hell aka the grave because he has committed a sin. Thousands of children throughout the world go to hell without having ever committed a single sin. The grave is the only hell that exists. That's what is called Sheol in Hebrew.

I hear the Chinese have a loooonnnnng list of hells

but that's beside the point.....and the point is.....

if there is life after death....
someone (and probably many) will be unhappy

depends I think, on who is willing to spend a loooonnnng time with you

 

[Ben Avraham]

I hear the Chinese have a loooonnnnng list of hells but that's beside the point.....and the point is.....if there is life after death....someone (and probably many) will be unhappy
depends I think, on who is willing to spend a loooonnnng time with you

Since there will be no life after death, no one will be unhappy. Isn't that marvelous! With me will be only those who want to rest from his life on the upper side of the earth. That's called reality. To die thinking on life after death is called
delusion caused by Christian preconceived notions. I can prove my view and you can't prove yours. Pity!

 

[Thief]

Since there will be no life after death, no one will be unhappy. Isn't that marvelous! With me will be only those who want to rest from his life on the upper side of the earth. That's called reality. To die thinking on life after death is called
delusion caused by Christian preconceived notions. I can prove my view and you can't prove yours. Pity!

yeah well....if there is no after life.....

where do you think God is?

 

[Ben Avraham]

yeah well....if there is no after life.....where do you think God is?

HaShem is the God of the living, not of the dead. Once dead, no one will ever return from the grave if you read II Samuel 12:23; Psalms 49:12,20; Isaiah 26:14; Job 7:9. HaShem is the Primal Cause of the Universe. Had He not caused the Universe to exist, we would not be here today sharing our ideas in this forum with each other about Him.

 

[Thief]

HaShem is the God of the living, not of the dead. Once dead, no one will ever return from the grave if you read II Samuel 12:23; Psalms 49:12,20; Isaiah 26:14; Job 7:9. HaShem is the Primal Cause of the Universe. Had He not caused the Universe to exist, we would not be here today sharing our ideas in this forum with each other about Him.

so you intend to be with God?....in His realm

 

[Ben Avraham]

so you intend to be with God?....in His realm

I am already. I don't have to die first in order to be. God has no connection with the dead. Only the living can praise Him. Jesus once, talking about the realm of God, he said that it is with and within ourselves if you read Luke 17:21.

 

[Ben Avraham]

yeah well....if there is no after life.....where do you think God is?

Everywhere, especially with those whom He has chosen as His peculiar People. (Exodus 19:5,6)

 

[Thief]

Everywhere, especially with those whom He has chosen as His peculiar People. (Exodus 19:5,6)

God is Spirit.

and you don't believe in life beyond your last breath?

 

[Ben Avraham]

God is Spirit. and you don't believe in life beyond your last breath?

Why should I? Do you know what comes beyond the last breath? Death and a trip to the eternal home of the dead if you read Psalms 49:12,20. If I can't change reality, why should I disturb my peaceful state of mind with Christian preconceived notions?

 

[Thief]

Why should I? Do you know what comes beyond the last breath? Death and a trip to the eternal home of the dead if you read Psalms 49:12,20. If I can't change reality, why should I disturb my peaceful state of mind with Christian preconceived notions?

the Carpenter might be my Inspiration.....
but I have no religion

God is Spirit
the Sons of God are spirit
the kingdom is not of this world

this thing called Man is a means to generate unique spirit
individuals

no point if each one crumbles to dust....altogether

 

[Ben Avraham]

the Carpenter might be my Inspiration.....but I have no religion
God is Spirit the Sons of God are spirit the kingdom is not of this world this thing called Man is a means to generate unique spirit individuals no point if each one crumbles to dust....altogether

The Carpenter is dead, Thief. How can the dead still inspire you? The Son of God is not spirit, he is Israel if you read Exodus 4:22,23. "Israel is My Son," said the Lord. The Kingdom of God is not OF this world but it is IN this world. It is Israel if you read Exodus 19:5,6. And the capital of God's Kingdom is Jerusalem. Baruch HaShem! Regarding crumbling to dust, won't we all soon or later? Whether we are sinners or righteous, we will all crumble to dust.

 

[psychoslice]

The Carpenter is dead, Thief. How can the dead still inspire you? The Son of God is not spirit, he is Israel if you read Exodus 4:22,23. "Israel is My Son," said the Lord. The Kingdom of God is not OF this world but it is IN this world. It is Israel if you read Exodus 19:5,6. And the capital of God's Kingdom is Jerusalem. Baruch HaShem! Regarding crumbling to dust, won't we all soon or later? Whether we are sinners or righteous, we will all crumble to dust.

Are you being biased because of your own beliefs >

 

[Ben Avraham]

Are you being biased because of your own beliefs >

I am glad to see that you have noticed how proud and happy I am of the way I serve the Lord.