Ignorance Doesn't Excuse Your Sin Sonny. Off to Hell You Go

[Ben Avraham]

I believe Jesus said a person will be judged by what he says. I believe those who love their sin prefer it. I believe I am glad to hear it. I believe athiests are a mixed bag. I believe Jesus saves me from sin and all others who receive Him as Lord and Savior. I believe that is not something that can be backed up with evidence.

Sin by definition is the transgression of Law. How can one prefer to be always paying for the consequences of having transgressed the Law. I would never, if you asked me. The dead can no longer be lord or savior. Believes can be backed up only by faith.

 

[Ben Avraham]

I believe the breath of life is an analogy for the spirit. Jesus breathes on his disciples and says receive the spirit. I believe so. I believe you expressed half the word as though it were the whole story. In that way you excerpted the word away from God into your own meaning. I believe in relation to Hell cremation i something people are apt to experience before they ever get to Hell. I would like to spare people from the horror of waking up buried thinking they are still alive when it is only the spirit that is alive and similarly I would like to spare people from going through the fire of cremation.

The breath of life is literal. What is an analogy is to embellish the breath of of life with being a spirit. Cremation is hell-fire but there is no further hell-fire after cremation. Before going into cremation, one is no longer alive... I hope! So, being really dead, one is absolutely unconscious about any kind of further suffering.

 

[Jenny Collins]

I d

That is hilarious, and OBVIOUSLY WRONG.

All you have to do is read the posts from "most" of the Christians here, to see the error in your words.

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on't know what you two are talking about but there are those words "most Christians" again! The Bible says that mainstream believers are not God's chosen people! "Broad and spacious is the road leading to destruction" "Narrow and cramped is the the road leading to life" "Go into the narrow gate" "Many will say to me in that day, "Lord, lord, did we not perform miracles in your name?" "I will say to them, 'Get away from me you workers of lawlessness" Do you want to know what MOST "Christians" do? I don't know the statistic today but at one time priests were dying at 4 times the rate as the general population and it may have been more, because some were covering up the reasons of death!

Most "Christians" do not wait for marriage to have sex! Of the 1 plus billion Catholics in the world, a lot are not practicing their religion, because you don't see too many Catholic parents with 12 kids anymore! They mostly use birth control and polls have agreed with that!

Another thing that most "Christians" do is not agree with each other! There are so many various beliefs, even about Hell! Catholics originiated the idea of eternal torture, now say it is separation although other Catholics still think it is literal fire! But while the church that originated this heinous doctrine is backing off, the evangelical type of "Christians" who borrowed it from Catholics enthusiastically embrace it!

Most "Christians" do not follow 1 Cor 1:10, so forgive me if I don't go to most "Christians" for advice on what the Bible teaches! I choose the "narrow gate leading to life" and reject ad populum opinion!

 

[Jenny Collins]

That is hilarious, and OBVIOUSLY WRONG.

All you have to do is read the posts from "most" of the Christians here, to see the error in your words.

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Need to correct mistake! I left out a word! Priests are dying at 4 times the rate from AIDS than the general population! That statistic may not be current, but I save clippings and found that recently

 

[Jenny Collins]

Oh most exalted one, I believe you are most generous to tell God what He can do and not do to please you.

I believe you should explicate this since I have no idea about which scriptures you are referring to and why you believe they mean something else.

I believe that means Hell.

Any God who would burn people for eternity would be evil, and I have explained scriptures earlier in this post, if you want go back and find them

 

[Jenny Collins]

I believe "cutting the hands off is hyperbole. Jesus is simply explaining how serious one must be in avoiding sin because the end result is a serious matter.

I don't believe it matters how hell is depicted. If Gehenna is a metaphor for Hell I believe that makes more sense than believing Jesus literally throws people into a burning garbage dump.

I believe this is a non-sequitur. How one interprets one phrase has nothing to do with how one interprets another phrase.

Of course cutting ones hands off is hyperbole, and that was my point! So is the fire and Gehenna! They are mentioned together! Why do you believe in torture? Would you torture your children, and when you face child protective services, tell them "I didn't torture him, he tortured himself" because he had been naughty! Would you add "I warned him"? I can't dissuade anyone from believing in eternal, excruciating, agonizing, heinous, torture, but I can shine a flashlight in their ear and light would come come out the other one, if they are so dumb to accept that a loving, just and merciful God would create people without their permission and if they fail tests, give a red faun with a tail and pitchfork authority to roast and toast them!

 

[Jenny Collins]

I believe "cutting the hands off is hyperbole. Jesus is simply explaining how serious one must be in avoiding sin because the end result is a serious matter.

I don't believe it matters how hell is depicted. If Gehenna is a metaphor for Hell I believe that makes more sense than believing Jesus literally throws people into a burning garbage dump.

I believe this is a non-sequitur. How one interprets one phrase has nothing to do with how one interprets another phrase.

"I believe this" "I believe that" "I believe this" and so on! What you believe is irrelevant! What the Bible SAYS is what counts! The Bible says in Jeremiah that "God punishes to the proper degree" The context is not about Hell, but the words describe God! Rev 20:14 calls the "lake of fire" the "second death" Death is cessation of activity or the end to something! That scripture also says: "Death and Hades (grave) will be thrown into the lake of fire" Since when can a condition like death burn? Can the grave burn? Only flammable materials like wood can burn! Although human bodies can burn, they burn up, don't burn on forever! Plus when a person dies, they give up their bodies? If they became a spirit, which they actually don't, but if they did, spirits cannot burn! If you saw a ghost (they don't exist of course) could you throw gasoline on it and set it on fire? Think about it! Hell is the lie that made God cruel

 

[Jenny Collins]

Revelations 20
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

If death and Hell were thrown into the fire, how can a condition like death burn? How can Hell be thrown into Hell? The word that should be in place of Hell is Hades which means the grave! The bible says in Isaiah the "death will be swallowed up forever" and Revelation 21:3, 4 says that all suffering will end and so will death! Which explains why "death and the grave will be thrown into the lake of fire" They will be destroyed completely and thoroughly, just as if they were incinerated

 

[Ingledsva]

I don't know what you two are talking about but there are those words "most Christians" again! The Bible says that mainstream believers are not God's chosen people! "Broad and spacious is the road leading to destruction" "Narrow and cramped is the the road leading to life" "Go into the narrow gate" "Many will say to me in that day, "Lord, lord, did we not perform miracles in your name?" "I will say to them, 'Get away from me you workers of lawlessness" Do you want to know what MOST "Christians" do? I don't know the statistic today but at one time priests were dying at 4 times the rate as the general population and it may have been more, because some were covering up the reasons of death!

Most "Christians" do not wait for marriage to have sex! Of the 1 plus billion Catholics in the world, a lot are not practicing their religion, because you don't see too many Catholic parents with 12 kids anymore! They mostly use birth control and polls have agreed with that!

Another thing that most "Christians" do is not agree with each other! There are so many various beliefs, even about Hell! Catholics originiated the idea of eternal torture, now say it is separation although other Catholics still think it is literal fire! But while the church that originated this heinous doctrine is backing off, the evangelical type of "Christians" who borrowed it from Catholics enthusiastically embrace it!

Most "Christians" do not follow 1 Cor 1:10, so forgive me if I don't go to most "Christians" for advice on what the Bible teaches! I choose the "narrow gate leading to life" and reject ad populum opinion!

If you don't know what we are talking about, - why are you replying like this?

For your information -

I was replying to the reply that we get a lot, from Christians whom can't prove what they are saying the Bible says.

They say we don't understand that what they say is correct, and what we say is wrong, because we aren't filled with the Holy Spirit. As if that is all that is needed to counter research, looking up the Greek or Hebrew, giving information from theologians, historians, archaeologists, even Biblical Archaeology Magazine (I often quote articles from it), etc.

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[Ingledsva]

Need to correct mistake! I left out a word! Priests are dying at 4 times the rate from AIDS than the general population! That statistic may not be current, but I save clippings and found that recently

Again! What does this have to do with out debate?

Also - "The Star" sent out that survey, to which only 800 of 46,000 USA priests responded.

They came to an obviously flawed conclusion. The numbers are WRONG.

Also - people seem to have missed the "hidden" in there.

In other words with their flawed survey they were saying that priests are dying of Aids at 4 times the general population, - because of it being hidden (not getting proper care, etc.) - not because they have 4 times the rate of Aids.

People really need to look at where their information originated, and read it with a critical eye.

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[Muffled]

If you thi

If you think that the Bible teaches Hell fire you don't understand it very well! I have an idea you are going to bombard me with a plethora of scriptures like the rich man and Lazarus parable, "weeping and gnashing of teeth" "lake of fire" and so on and so forth! I really am getting sick of these long debates, but if you want me to tell you what those mean, I will

I beleive you are wrenching the scripture around to fit your desires. That is never going to help you in any way.

 

[Muffled]

J

Jude 1:7 does not prove Hell! The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by fire and those cities no longer exists! They are not burning somewhere and the people of that time are dead!

2 Thess says "everlasting destruction" not eternal fire! Just death

You mention the "lake of fire" It says in Rev 20:14 that the lake of fire "means the second death" which is not fire but the final end of! Also says in that verse that "death and the grave will be hurled into the lake of fire" Since death and the grave are not flammable materials like firewood, it can't be literal fire

I believe you must not be considering what graves are made of ie earth, wood, stone. All of that can be consumed by intense heat. Death may seem like a condition but the condition does not exist without temporal man, so if temporal man is sent into the fire then death no longer exists.

 

[Muffled]

True that in the very beginning, Moses meant only added troubles unto the Israelites in Egypt but with time, not too long, God was breathed into them through Moses and the Israelites were finally taken over with the Spirit of God which soon caused the Exodus.

I believe that never happened.

 

[Ben Avraham]

I believe that never happened.

Well, you have all the right in the world not to!