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Ignorance Doesn't Excuse Your Sin Sonny. Off to Hell You Go

Reggie Miller

Well-Known Member
Revelations 20
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
 

Jenny Collins

Active Member
Revelations 20
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
This showsthe fire is not literal. How can "deat and hell burn?"
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Revelations 20
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

It is the grave/holding place they are talking about, Hades/Sheol, not Hell.

Death and Sheol are cast into the destroying fire, - because they are no longer needed.

Sheol/grave which holds people from the FIRST DEATH (normal,) is no longer needed to hold the dead that are awaiting the messiah. And obviously no more death.

To be cast into the fire means to be totally destroyed.

*
 

Reggie Miller

Well-Known Member
It is the grave/holding place they are talking about, Hades/Sheol, not Hell.

Death and Sheol are cast into the destroying fire, - because they are no longer needed.

Sheol/grave which holds people from the FIRST DEATH (normal,) is no longer needed to hold the dead that are awaiting the messiah. And obviously no more death.

To be cast into the fire means to be totally destroyed.

*

I'll go with the interpretation of those filled with the Spirit in the Church, but thank you all the same.
 

Jenny Collins

Active Member
I'll go with the interpretation of those filled with the Spirit in the Church, but thank you all the same.
Ehat church? Your own? Who are you going to believe, your clergy or the Bible? Does a god who would torture people forever, for the sins of a mere lifespan seem loving or merciful?
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
I'll go with the interpretation of those filled with the Spirit in the Church, but thank you all the same.

LOL! This is from a well known CHRISTIAN Pastor, Theologian, & Biblical Scholar -

John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible.

"and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them; "death", which is here represented as a person, and elsewhere as a king, reigning and having power over men, signifies death in general, and every kind of death of which men have died, whether natural or violent, over whom it will now have no longer dominion, but will be obliged to deliver up all its subjects; and "hell" signifies the grave, which will now be opened, and deliver up all its prisoners, all that have been buried in the earth; ..."

*
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
here in this world.....ignorance is no excuse....
off to jail you go

in the next life....you fit in wherever you fit in

off to hell you go
 

Jenny Collins

Active Member
What a lacksadaisacal, indifferent response to other people's suffering. First of all, it isnt rooted in truth. People have just shown the Bible doesnt teach it. Secondly, It is a very cruel doctrine. Why on eart do you so badly want eternal torture to exist? I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Your attitude is "Oh well" and "Whatever" God gave you a brain and ability to reason. Now mull it over? How on earth could a loving God do that to people? And you better not say: "God doesn't send you there, you send yourself." Not only is that mantra incredibly overused, it is also a horrible, lame and unsatisfying answer. Somebody made that horrible explanation up, and then the brainwashed parrot ut over and over. People may choose to act badly, but it would be God doing the sentencing. Fortunately, the book of Jeremiah says He "punishes to the proper degree."
 

Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
What a lacksadaisacal, indifferent response to other people's suffering. First of all, it isnt rooted in truth. People have just shown the Bible doesnt teach it. Secondly, It is a very cruel doctrine. Why on eart do you so badly want eternal torture to exist? I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Your attitude is "Oh well" and "Whatever" God gave you a brain and ability to reason. Now mull it over? How on earth could a loving God do that to people? And you better not say: "God doesn't send you there, you send yourself." Not only is that mantra incredibly overused, it is also a horrible, lame and unsatisfying answer. Somebody made that horrible explanation up, and then the brainwashed parrot ut over and over. People may choose to act badly, but it would be God doing the sentencing. Fortunately, the book of Jeremiah says He "punishes to the proper degree."

IMHO, what you read in the Tanach, especially the Prophets that "HaShem punishes to the proper degree" is not literally that one is being punished by God but by oneself. That's called the law of cause and effect. When we ourselves cause something evil, we ourselves will suffer the consequences thereof. And don't believe either that hell-fire is a punishment by God because it does not exist. The only hell that exists is called Sheol aka the grave, the eternal home of the dead. (Psalms 49:12,20) Read it to see what I am talking about.
 

Jedster

Well-Known Member
IMHO, what you read in the Tanach, especially the Prophets that "HaShem punishes to the proper degree" is not literally that one is being punished by God but by oneself. That's called the law of cause and effect. When we ourselves cause something evil, we ourselves will suffer the consequences thereof. And don't believe either that hell-fire is a punishment by God because it does not exist. The only hell that exists is called Sheol aka the grave, the eternal home of the dead. (Psalms 49:12,20) Read it to see what I am talking about.
Sounds to me a bit like karma.
Maybe said prophets had teachers from India who taught them spirituality and they returned to their communities who were more primitive and so had to speak in more primitive ways. I

Karma (Sanskrit: कर्म; IPA: [ˈkərmə] ( listen); Pali: kamma) means action, work or deed;[1] it also refers to the spiritual principle of cause and effect where intent and actions of an individual (cause) influence the future of that individual (effect).[2]Good intent and good deed contribute to good karma and future happiness, while bad intent and bad deed contribute to bad karma and future suffering.[3][4] Karma is closely associated with the idea of rebirth in many schools of Asian religions.[5]In these schools, karma in the present affects one's future in the current life, as well as the nature and quality of future lives - one's saṃsāra.[6]
With origins in ancient India, karma is a key concept in Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism,[7] and Taoism.[8]
Karma - Wikipedia
 

Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
here in this world.....ignorance is no excuse.... off to jail you go in the next life....you fit in wherever you fit in off to hell you go

Here, it is true; we have jails and, ignorance is no excuse to crimes, I mean when one is caught. So, off to jail! But in the afterlife, the hell is Sheol aka the grave, the eternal home of the dead. (Psalms 49:12,20) Whether in life we paid or not for the consequences thereof, death evens out all we have done. HaShem has nothing to do with the dead as He is God of the living, not of the dead. (Ecclesiastes 9:5,6)
 

Reggie Miller

Well-Known Member
LOL! This is from a well known CHRISTIAN Pastor, Theologian, & Biblical Scholar -

John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible.

"and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them; "death", which is here represented as a person, and elsewhere as a king, reigning and having power over men, signifies death in general, and every kind of death of which men have died, whether natural or violent, over whom it will now have no longer dominion, but will be obliged to deliver up all its subjects; and "hell" signifies the grave, which will now be opened, and deliver up all its prisoners, all that have been buried in the earth; ..."

*

The scriptures speak for themselves. If you are led by the Spirit you will know truth, if not you will not.
 

Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
Not the spirit, THE Spirit, the Holy Spirit. The spirit of man knows nothing but self-gratification and evil.

Yes but, this works for you and people of the same faith. For people of another faith is totally different. For instance, when Jesus said, "You will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free." (John 17:17) What he had in mind was the Truth of the Word of God which, according to Psalms 147:19,20 was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth. The NT, he never even dreamed it would ever rise. He was born, lived his span of life and died and never heard
about the NT.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Here, it is true; we have jails and, ignorance is no excuse to crimes, I mean when one is caught. So, off to jail! But in the afterlife, the hell is Sheol aka the grave, the eternal home of the dead. (Psalms 49:12,20) Whether in life we paid or not for the consequences thereof, death evens out all we have done. HaShem has nothing to do with the dead as He is God of the living, not of the dead. (Ecclesiastes 9:5,6)
assuming the grave to be a blanket penalty for all sins...great and small?
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
There is no consciousness in the grave. Therefore, no punishment for any thing at all... great or small.
if I fail to escape the flesh.....I hope your right

but it's not my belief

the will to live is likely to allow each one of us to stand.....in spirit
and then ( as written in the book of Job).......we present ourselves to God
 
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