If you don't believe in the Quran why do you think it was written?

[sealchan]

The Quran is not a story.

I doubt that.

 

[QuestioningMind]

In the world of the Arabs the Quran rather liberated the society.

I HARDLY see the Muslim world as being anything close to 'liberated'. In fact they represent some of the most repressive governments in the world.

 

[England my lionheart]

War booty and slaves? How so?

Quran 33.51

O Prophet, We have made lawful to thee thy wives whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesses from among those whom Allah has given thee as gains of war... (33:51)

There's Hadith too about war booty and slaves.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

For personal reasons. I don't have time to ask all questions a human can ask.

My curiosity comes from the fact that the Quran criticises the people of the book a lot. So if someone believes it is made up, what do they suppose is the reason they - the writer/writers - wanted to do this? It was quite a task for them. It wasn't an accident. Someone somehow decided to change the entire world to do something like this and sacrifice lives for it. It isn't a minor affair.

There must be a reason bigger than "to write a book". Besides this, there is no doubt the Quran is a book of high quality whether you consider it divine or not. So again, taking also into account how old it is - it is no minor affair.

You surprise me. Why do religious innovators go to all the trouble? To gain control over the lives of others. And with that control, you are guaranteed steady income (often immense, complete with Rolls Royce autos and mansions), and a flock of people who will yield to your every wish...and that has often included yielding up sons and daughters for sacrifice, or for sexual purposes. Note that Mohammed married Aisha at the age of 6 or 7, and consummated that marriage when she was only 9 or 10. Joseph Smith wrote a "revelation" (later included in the Mormon book "Doctrine and Covenants" justifying polygamy...likely because he'd been with his first wife long enough to be bored.

Throughout human history, with zero exceptions, some men have tried every imaginable means of gaining such control over the lives of their fellows. Some have been very successful, like Mohammed and St. Paul, or Joseph Smith, others less so (like Sun Myung Moon, or David Koresh, or Jim Jones, or Marshall Applewhite).

 

[Remté]

I HARDLY see the Muslim world as being anything close to 'liberated'. In fact they represent some of the most repressive governments in the world.

I was speaking of the time of the revelation.

 

[Remté]

I doubt that.

It isn't even in the form of a story.

 

[sealchan]

It isn't even in the form of a story.

No wonder I haven't seen the movie version...

 

[Ajarn]

It was written to force ignorant people into submission.
Hence the title.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I wonder about this excuse. Some say it isn't real and it was made up, but if so why do you think they would do such a thing?

For the exact same reason like all the other religious scriptures of mutually exclusive religions were written.

I think the originators of these religions, especially in ancient times, definatly were sincere and really believed what they preached and wrote.

So why did they write it down? Because they believed it and considered it important.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Why? Those who say that the Quran is forged mostly seem to claim it is made based on the Bible. So why would it be written again so it goes against the bible?

I think all religions are made up.
But that doesn't mean that those who made it up weren't sincere.

"made up" has many ways in which it can come about.
"made up" doesn't only refer to sitting down and actively and consiously inventing a story like a fiction writer would do.

"made up" can also refer to simply magical thinking/reasoning and superstition resulting in full blown stories or adaptions of stories.

I mean, it's not like the quran was invented completely out of thin air.
In many many ways, it's simply plagiarism of the bible, with some arabic sauce on top.

Not much different from Mormonism in that sense. As Sam Harris once said "mormonism is just christianity to which a couple rather stupid ideas were added"

 

[QuestioningMind]

I don't think it was made up because I've read the Quran and alittle bit of the Hadith and from reading the description of the prophet Muhammad's reactions after he encountered the angel or after he had a vision (which would cause him to convulse), it is very evident that he was terrified (and even thought he was being tormented by demons). Also, early on in his prophethood, he was severely persecuted for prophesying and preaching so why would he endure this if it was made up?

Because people who suffer from mental delusions aren't aware that the hallucinations they have aren't real. That's like asking why would the mental patient who thinks he's Napoleon endure having to live in a mental institution if their delusions aren't real.

 

[sooda]

I HARDLY see the Muslim world as being anything close to 'liberated'. In fact they represent some of the most repressive governments in the world.

Where did you live in the Muslim world?

The Koran was written to get the people of the Arabian peninsula to return to the God of Abraham. That's the theme of most of Muhammed's sermons.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Where did you live in the Muslim world?

The Koran was written to get the people of the Arabian peninsula to return to the God of Abraham. That's the theme of most of Muhammed's sermons.

I do not live in the Muslim world. However, I do have access to Google and found this on Wikipedia:

"Human rights in Muslim-majority countries have been a hot-button issue for many decades. International non-governmental organizations (INGOs) such as Amnesty International (AI) and Human Rights Watch (HRW) consistently find human rights violations in Muslim-majority countries. Amongst the human rights issues that are frequently under the spotlight are gay rights, the right to consensual sex outside of marriage, individual freedom of speech and political opinion.[1] The issue of women’s rights is also the subject of fierce debate.[1]"

This is how I have concluded that the 'Muslim world' hardly seems to be liberated, when compared to the rest of the world. How have you come to the conclusion that nations that suffer so many human rights violations are 'liberated'?

 

[sooda]

Because people who suffer from mental delusions aren't aware that the hallucinations they have aren't real. That's like asking why would the mental patient who thinks he's Napoleon endure having to live in a mental institution if their delusions aren't real.

Do you draw the same conclusions about the Jewish patriarchs who had visions, encounters with angels and burning bushes?

 

[sooda]

You surprise me. Why do religious innovators go to all the trouble? To gain control over the lives of others. And with that control, you are guaranteed steady income (often immense, complete with Rolls Royce autos and mansions), and a flock of people who will yield to your every wish...and that has often included yielding up sons and daughters for sacrifice, or for sexual purposes. Note that Mohammed married Aisha at the age of 6 or 7, and consummated that marriage when she was only 9 or 10. Joseph Smith wrote a "revelation" (later included in the Mormon book "Doctrine and Covenants" justifying polygamy...likely because he'd been with his first wife long enough to be bored.

Throughout human history, with zero exceptions, some men have tried every imaginable means of gaining such control over the lives of their fellows. Some have been very successful, like Mohammed and St. Paul, or Joseph Smith, others less so (like Sun Myung Moon, or David Koresh, or Jim Jones, or Marshall Applewhite).

Aisha was born before the Call so she would have been at least 17.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Aisha was born before the Call so she would have been at least 17.

Al-Tabari says she was nine at the time of marriage, which was consummated a year later. Sahih al-Bukhari's hadith says that she was six years old at marriage, but the marriage was not consummated until later, and many others also mention early age.

 

[sooda]

Al-Tabari says she was nine at the time of marriage, which was consummated a year later. Sahih al-Bukhari's hadith says that she was six years old at marriage, but the marriage was not consummated until later, and many others also mention early age.

She wasn't. She was born before the Call. .. and had previously been engaged.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

She wasn't. She was born before the Call. .. and had previously been engaged.

Your source?

 

[sooda]

Your source?

Here's one. The Arabs were herders and merchants.. They NEVER bred animals too early …. and historically girls did NOT marry until after the onset of the menses.

Age of Aisha (ra) at time of marriage - Muslim
www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm

 

[QuestioningMind]

Do you draw the same conclusions about the Jewish patriarchs who had visions, encounters with angels and burning bushes?

Why would I accept such fantastical unverifiable claims, just because they came from a Jewish patriarch?