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Featured If you don't believe in the Quran why do you think it was written?

Discussion in 'Quranic Debates' started by Remté, Feb 22, 2019.

  1. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Baconist
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    [​IMG]
     
  2. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    From what I have read Muhammed was a reluctant messenger. I think his mission was to return the people of the Arabian peninsula to the God of Abraham.
     
  3. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    All Avatars, or Messengers from God, as you might prefer, come to move humanity forward. Typically after that figure is gone, people seek to commemorate and spread what was said and done and create a scripture based on the original message. Such scriptures reflect to a greater or lesser extent the original message.

    So I neither "believe" nor "disbelieve" in the Quran. To me it's not a matter of belief. It's a question of to what degree a scripture reflects the current level of spiritual evolution.

    And as is easily demonstrable, translations can be vastly different in certain passages and encoded meanings easily lose.

    As one example, if you were to translate the word "light" into a language where the choice had to be between "light" as weight vs "light" as illumination, something would be lost because "light" could be experienced as a feeling of illumination and weightlessness at the same time.
     
  4. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    I have read that God has sent many messengers over the ages.
     
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  5. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    I know this is a tangent, but do you think any scripture reflects our current level of spiritual evolution?

    At least as far as Abrahamic scripture goes, I think it's all far, far, behind how our morals, ethics, and spirituality have evolved. It might have been "state of the art" centuries or millennia ago, but it's all showing its age these days.
     
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  6. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    In total, no. In parts, yes. Those are the parts that are said in different words by different scriptures but express the same essence. This is one example of two points I found.
    Capture.PNG
     
  7. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    Look at the economic power of story in today's world...movies, fiction, electronic gaming, tv...stories have always been highly valued commodities. In the distant and not so distant past stories have been used for political purposes to control and manipulate people who are only wanting meaning and value.
     
  8. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    If you look at what was happening during the period that the Quran was alledgedy reavealed it was a way of uniting the tribes although there was some division when uthman standardised it and the split of Sunni and Shia.

    I think you can see why people say it was plagiarized,pretty obvious really but with a few tweaks,it also offers war booty and slaves which back then was a good incentive to follow Islam and of course land from invasion.

    Muhammed and the companions did very well out of the Quran and I think the reason for the writing of the Quran was to gain power and control,there were a few hiccups like the so called satanic verses but otherwise a success imo.
     
  9. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    For the same reason that anyone writes any religious text, as a means of controlling society.
     
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  10. Tranquil Servant

    Tranquil Servant Was M.I.A for a while

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    I don't think it was made up because I've read the Quran and alittle bit of the Hadith and from reading the description of the prophet Muhammad's reactions after he encountered the angel or after he had a vision (which would cause him to convulse), it is very evident that he was terrified (and even thought he was being tormented by demons). Also, early on in his prophethood, he was severely persecuted for prophesying and preaching so why would he endure this if it was made up?
     
  11. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...

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    Why do you ask this about the Qur'an, and not about the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Granth Guru Sahib, the Analects of Confucius, or all of the many, many other books claimed to have been inspired by gods, but ultimately written by (and possibly invented by) humans?

    Why is any book written? Usually, because the author thinks they have something important to say, and want others to hear it. Does that always, never or only sometimes mean that they have been inspired by God? And how would you know?
     
  12. Neuropteron

    Neuropteron Member

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    Careful reader of the Qur'an have seen that the Torah, the Psams and the Gospels are time and again shown to be God's Word. In the one hundred fourteen Suras, (chapters), of the Qur'an, at least sixty-two verses point out that these three writings come from God.
    And at least twelve other verses say that the Qur'an was written for the purpose of confirming these books.
     
  13. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    That is certainly the underlying assumption made, but is it one we allow ourselves to question?

    Do we allow ourselves to critically examine the Quran to see if it contains manmade material?
     
  14. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    What do you propose? Go ahead, examine. Tell us what you think.
     
  15. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    For personal reasons. I don't have time to ask all questions a human can ask.
    My curiosity comes from the fact that the Quran criticises the people of the book a lot. So if someone believes it is made up, what do they suppose is the reason they - the writer/writers - wanted to do this? It was quite a task for them. It wasn't an accident. Someone somehow decided to change the entire world to do something like this and sacrifice lives for it. It isn't a minor affair.

    There must be a reason bigger than "to write a book". Besides this, there is no doubt the Quran is a book of high quality whether you consider it divine or not. So again, taking also into account how old it is - it is no minor affair.
     
  16. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    Well there is the proposition he was crazy, in which case a person might go to any lengths for something that isn't real. However, people who are severely psychotic are generally not very consistent, while Muhammad managed to be consistent for a good twenty years.
     
  17. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    In the world of the Arabs the Quran rather liberated the society.
     
  18. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    War booty and slaves? How so?
     
  19. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    The Quran is not a story.
     
  20. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Sorry for engaging you across 2 threads, but I feel that post #182 in the other thread is relevant here, rather than repeat the post I will link to it, you may reply to it in the other thread if you wish;
    If you say you don't need God
     
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