If the Quran sets the minimum age of marriage at 25

[Saint Frankenstein]

you seem very ignorant of both your bible and history.

I'm not a Jew or Christian. It's not "my Bible". Evangelicals teach and condone all kinds of loony garbage, and those groups often are basically cults . Child marriage was never permitted by Catholicism, Orthodoxy and so on, the main and most ancient Christian bodies.

They were allowed to marry at 12/13 because that's when they are traditionally considered to be adults in the Jewish community. People are typically going through puberty then. Mary, the mother of Jesus, was likely about 13 or so when she gave birth to him. It was common for people around the world to marry around that age. We didn't live very long then. But that's not the same as marrying a 6 year old.

 

[danieldemol]

No one spoke of laws. Thats not the topic.

So "YOU THINK". Should I be surprised why you didnt do any googling about this age of 18? Well, now you can I suppose.

I didn't google it because I didn't forsee it being a point of contention.
I haven't heard of women suffering adverse effects from giving birth at 18.
In Australia if I recall the age of marriage coincides with the age of majority. So if my societal consensus is that a person aged 18 can enter contracts without a guardian why would it specifically be a problem for marriage contracts?
As for 18 being old enough to avoid being taken advantage of, again I derived this information from the fact that my society's consensus seems to be that 18 is the age of majority.

What question do you propose that I ask of google specifically?

In my opinion.

 

[firedragon]

I didn't google it because I didn't forsee it being a point of contention.
I haven't heard of women suffering adverse effects from giving birth at 18.
In Australia if I recall the age of marriage coincides with the age of majority. So if my societal consensus is that a person aged 18 can enter contracts without a guardian why would it specifically be a problem for marriage contracts?
As for 18 being old enough to avoid being taken advantage of, again I derived this information from the fact that my society's consensus seems to be that 18 is the age of majority.

What question do you propose that I ask of google specifically?

In my opinion.

Maybe a question like "research on marital age. 18 or 25". Obviously. You are trying to argue 18 is better. 25 you wish to debunk with research, 18 you wish to embrace without any.

Anyway, that's the end of that discussion. Its nice to know when people do their research in any topic. And this is a very important one. Even if we cannot change laws or social norms, we can learn something. And maybe make our own bed.

Cheers.

 

[danieldemol]

Maybe a question like "research on marital age. 18 or 25". Obviously. You are trying to argue 18 is better. 25 you wish to debunk with research, 18 you wish to embrace without any.

Anyway, that's the end of that discussion. Its nice to know when people do their research in any topic. And this is a very important one. Even if we cannot change laws or social norms, we can learn something. And maybe make our own bed.

Cheers.

I googled exactly that and this came top of the list Women’s Marriage Age Matters for Public Health: A Review of the Broader Health and Social Implications in South Asia

It was an article about women's marriage age in South Asia, and of interest because it included Pakistan. I'm still reading it, however in the introduction it states, 'Marriage before 18 years is considered to be a harmful practice because it denies girls the right to the highest attainable standard of general, sexual, and reproductive health, and to a life free from violence (1, 2). Under-age marriage also constrains evolving physical, emotional, and personal maturity required to safely and successfully transition to adulthood (3, 4). It places restrictions on opportunities in life, such as the right to education. Under-age marriage also restricts women’s ability to fully participate in family, socio-cultural, and civic activities (3). Collectively, these consequences have major implications for public health.'

And no, I'm not asserting 18years old is a better age to get married than 25, I'm asserting that legislating a minimum age of 18 is better than legislating a minimum age of 25 for reasons I went into in my exchange of ideas with @stvdv in posts #5, #12, #36 and #50 of this thread.

In my opinion.
Cheers

 

[Shakeel]

I was explaining the word iddha as known in the islamic world. Whatever world you are from, since you are so ignorant about it, I explained it.

Tell me something. This I really don't think I know. What does a widow have to wait for three months for after her husband has died when they weren't married?

 

[Shakeel]

I'm not a Jew or Christian. It's not "my Bible". Evangelicals teach and condone all kinds of loony garbage, and those groups often are basically cults . Child marriage was never permitted by Catholicism, Orthodoxy and so on, the main and most ancient Christian bodies.

They were allowed to marry at 12/13 because that's when they are traditionally considered to be adults in the Jewish community. People are typically going through puberty then. Mary, the mother of Jesus, was likely about 13 or so when she gave birth to him. It was common for people around the world to marry around that age. We didn't live very long then. But that's not the same as marrying a 6 year old.

That's child marriage in modern terms.

 

[firedragon]

I googled exactly that and this came top of the list Women’s Marriage Age Matters for Public Health: A Review of the Broader Health and Social Implications in South Asia

It was an article about women's marriage age in South Asia, and of interest because it included Pakistan. I'm still reading it, however in the introduction it states, 'Marriage before 18 years is considered to be a harmful practice because it denies girls the right to the highest attainable standard of general, sexual, and reproductive health, and to a life free from violence (1, 2). Under-age marriage also constrains evolving physical, emotional, and personal maturity required to safely and successfully transition to adulthood (3, 4). It places restrictions on opportunities in life, such as the right to education. Under-age marriage also restricts women’s ability to fully participate in family, socio-cultural, and civic activities (3). Collectively, these consequences have major implications for public health.'

And no, I'm not asserting 18years old is a better age to get married than 25, I'm asserting that legislating a minimum age of 18 is better than legislating a minimum age of 25 for reasons I went into in my exchange of ideas with @stvdv in posts #5, #12, #36 and #50 of this thread.

In my opinion.
Cheers

Thats great. I also shall try and read that linked source fully. Thank you very much.

 

[firedragon]

Tell me something. This I really don't think I know. What does a widow have to wait for three months for after her husband has died when they weren't married?

Who said "when they weren't married"? How can there be a husband "when they weren't married"?

Anyway, I was giving you the traditions muslims worldwide have and had just to make you understand the word "iddha". I was not trying to say this is the practice that justifies everything. So maybe you didnt understand the whole point of that post.

Anyway, you speak of Fikh right? Now before you get angry about using Arabic words, it is Islamic jurisprudence. Which Fikh do you follow? Do you have a particular Fikh or are you neutral in that matter?

 

[Shakeel]

Who said "when they weren't married"? How can there be a husband "when they weren't married"?

That's what I thought when you said

The second reason for the Iddha is if the husband dies. Where ever she is living, if the husband dies today, for three months from tomorrow she cannot be sent out of that place.

And I said

It's four months and ten days for a widow.

2:234 "And those who are taken in death among you and leave wives behind - they, [the wives, shall] wait four months and ten [days]. And when they have fulfilled their term, then there is no blame upon you for what they do with themselves in an acceptable manner.

And you said

Mate. Thats for marriage

What is this three month waiting period for widows which is not about marriage?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That's child marriage in modern terms.

In modern terms. Only small cults on the fringes of Christianity would promote such things today. I'm not aware of any Jewish groups supporting child marriage, but all groups have their crazies. Regardless, that is not the normative view of either Judaism or Christianity these days.

 

[firedragon]

What is this three month waiting period for widows which is not about marriage?

Thats the only explanation I gave about Iddha in this whole thread. So I think you should go back and read what was said.

 

[Shakeel]

Thats the only explanation I gave about Iddha in this whole thread. So I think you should go back and read what was said.

It's perfectly clear you made a mistake.

 

[Shakeel]

In modern terms. Only small cults on the fringes of Christianity would promote such things today. I'm not aware of any Jewish groups supporting child marriage, but all groups have their crazies. Regardless, that is not the normative view of either Judaism or Christianity these days.

So you consider Africans to be part of small cults? What's the name of that cult? The truth is Africans are much more honest at this than you are. They don't invent limits on age nor on the number of wives.

 

[firedragon]

It's perfectly clear you made a mistake.

Haha. Whats the mistake? Well, it perfectly could be that I made a mistake. But could you explain what mistake I made with sources to show that I made a mistake? Thanks in advance.

 

[Shakeel]

Haha. Whats the mistake? Well, it perfectly could be that I made a mistake. But could you explain what mistake I made with sources to show that I made a mistake? Thanks in advance.

I already did. I'm not surprised you're too proud to admit it. It doesn't make you any more convincing to be unable to admit obvious errors.

 

[firedragon]

So you consider Africans to be part of small cults? What's the name of that cult? The truth is Africans are much more honest at this than you are. They don't invent limits on age nor on the number of wives.

Let me ask you.

1. Do you believe a 6 year old is a child or a grown person mature enough to give permission for marriage?
2. In Islamic law, is it necessary to take permission or consent of the bride for marriage or can they be forced into a marriage?

 

[firedragon]

I already did. I'm not surprised you're too proud to admit it. It doesn't make you any more convincing to be unable to admit obvious errors.

I will ignore your ranting of course. I will not address them because maybe you lack something generally and you are trying to satisfy that by making some insults. So out of pity to people like that, I will just let you rant without responding to them in the future. Hope that's okay with you.

You did what? Can you please explain what you did?

 

[Shakeel]

Let me ask you.

1. Do you believe a 6 year old is a child or a grown person mature enough to give permission for marriage?
2. In Islamic law, is it necessary to take permission or consent of the bride for marriage or can they be forced into a marriage?

I'll just ignore your ranting.

 

[firedragon]

I'll just ignore your ranting.

Those are questions. You dont know to answer right? Simple, basic questions.

Please. Avoid the question and make another rhetoric. Pls. Its interesting to see.