If the Quran sets the minimum age of marriage at 25

[danieldemol]

My copy/pasted thoughts on the issue from another thread;

Also I would like to note that although your interpretation of the Quran with respect to marriage age of 25 is an improvement over child marriage, it is not without its problems either.

For example why would a woman need prime strength and full growth rather than simply being above a minimum threshold necessary for good health of the Mother and child?

You would rob a woman of all but the final three of her best child bearing years.

Not only that why is a woman allowed to be married after her decline from prime strength but not before it. In either case she is not at prime strength. So why does it make sense to allow a 40 or 50 or 60 year old woman to marry but not an 18 year old?

Then there is the issue of many people who get married who do not give birth for personal reasons at all. Again if they have met a minimum threshold of maturity for capacity to understand what a contract involves why should they be barred from it till they have attained maximum growth/capacity?

In my opinion

 

[epronovost]

I don't know anything about Quranic demands on the age of marriage, but throughout the entire history of the Islamic world, women have married from age 12 and up with the vast majority marrying between the age of 16-20 before the 19th century and today between the age 20 and 25 a bit lower than the world's average though the main factor for early marriage remains poverty. I would find it odd that the entire Muslim world has ignored and continues to ignore this disposition.

 

[danieldemol]

I would find it odd that the entire Muslim world has ignored and continues to ignore this disposition.

I would find it unusual too, but it appears that the claim was made that the Quran says marriage is permissible at the age of full growth/prime strength. So I googled when is a human fully grown out of curiosity and got this;

'Under most laws, young people are recognized as adults at age 18. But emerging science about brain development suggests that most people don't reach full maturity until the age 25.'

Source: Brain Maturity Extends Well Beyond Teen Years.

And from here I got that prime strength occurs at age 25

Source: Science reveals when you peak at everything

So I put the question to the RF member who shall not be named do you propose an age for marriage of 25 and they replied along the lines of "if that is what the research suggests".

 

[stvdv]

Also I would like to note that although your interpretation of the Quran with respect to marriage age of 25 is an improvement over child marriage, it is not without its problems either.

IMO (for all my replies):
25 years to marry seems the wiser age

For example why would a woman need prime strength and full growth rather than simply being above a minimum threshold necessary for good health of the Mother and child?

You would rob a woman of all but the final three of her best child bearing years.

Give the mother a better chance to develop herself emotionally and educate herself seems the wise thing to do

Not only that why is a woman allowed to be married after her decline from prime strength but not before it. In either case she is not at prime strength. So why does it make sense to allow a 40 or 50 or 60 year old woman to marry but not an 18 year old?

Emotionally the majority of people are not very stable at age 18, while at age 40-60 they had much more time to find their balance in life/living

Age 18 usually the hormones dictate their choices, seems not the best to make life changing decisions to me

Then there is the issue of many people who get married who do not give birth for personal reasons at all. Again if they have met a minimum threshold of maturity for capacity to understand what a contract involves why should they be barred from it till they have attained maximum growth/capacity?

In my opinion

My previous answer applies here to. Of course if you are lucky to meet the perfect match for you and you are perfectly balanced then one could marry at 18. But I remember a thread recently from @Epic Beard Man that in the dating arena, there is quite some strange manipulative behavior or some autonomic behavior or whatever it might be

Of course it's possible that only people around 39 exhibit such behavior, but I very much doubt that. And even if such behavior would be due to failed relationships or other messed up situations only due to older age, then it is even more important to protect an 18 year old by setting the age at 25 years.

 

[danieldemol]

IMO (for all my replies):
25 years to marry seems the wiser age


Give the mother a better chance to develop herself emotionally and educate herself seems the wise thing to do

What if she doesn't want to do higher education, think of all the Jehovah's Witness marriages that would be declined.

Emotionally the majority of people are not very stable at age 18, while at age 40-60 they had much more time to find their balance in life/living

Age 18 usually the hormones dictate their choices, seems not the best to make life changing decisions to me

It seems to me you are insisting upon an unnecessarily high degree of emotional stability here. What evidence do you have that 18-24(inclusive) year olds are too unstable to have a marriage? Personally I think that marriages can be good when they are made before people get set in their ways as it enables them to grow together and compromise more easily (although I don't know of any research to support this ).

Also if you cut the allowance for under 25 year olds to marry it would add to the number of children born out of wedlock (already enough teens are pregnant out of wedlock).

...Of course if you are lucky to meet the perfect match for you and you are perfectly balanced then one could marry at 18.

Not if you lived in a society of Quranist Muslims who set the age of marriage at 25 you couldn't.

Of course it's possible that only people around 39 exhibit such behavior, but I very much doubt that. And even if such behavior would be due to failed relationships or other messed up situations only due to older age, then it is even more important to protect an 18 year old by setting the age at 25 years.

Personally I think 18 year olds are generally able to protect themselves, also this is about marriage (not relationships). Even if you set the age of marriage at 25 people are still exposed before that to manipulative relationships, so I don't see how preventing them from getting married changes this.

In my opinion

 

[Shakeel]

65:4 "And for such of your women as despair of menstruation, if ye doubt, their period (of waiting) shall be three months, along with those who have it not. And for those with child, their period shall be till they bring forth their burden. And whosoever keepeth his duty to Allah, He maketh his course easy for him."

The Quran clearly mentions the waiting period after divorce for women who have not yet menstruated.

 

[Starlight]

65:4 "And for such of your women as despair of menstruation, if ye doubt, their period (of waiting) shall be three months, along with those who have it not. And for those with child, their period shall be till they bring forth their burden. And whosoever keepeth his duty to Allah, He maketh his course easy for him."

The Quran clearly mentions the waiting period after divorce for women who have not yet menstruated.

Wow you defend child marriage. Terrible. God is against child marriage. The Quran is against child marriage. The hadiths about Aisha's age in marriage is fabricated and false by the enemies of islam. Prophet Muhammad never married a child. So you go against God.

No, the Quranic verse do not allow child marriage. The Quranic verse is talking about women who has not menstruated because of illness.

Some adult women never get menstruation because they have a illness. A friend i have, she never got menstruation. But when you she began taking medicine she got her first menstruation when she was 20. Without the medicine she would not have menstruation at all

 

[Shakeel]

Wow you defend child marriage. Terrible. God is against child marriage. The Quran is against child marriage. The hadiths about Aisha's age in marriage is fabricated and false by the enemies of islam. Prophet Muhammad never married a child. So you go against God.

No, the Quranic verse do not allow child marriage. The Quranic verse is talking about women who has not menstruated because of illness.

Some adult women never get menstruation because they have a illness. A friend i have, she never got menstruation. But when you she began taking medicine she got her first menstruation when she was 20. Without the medicine she would not have menstruation at all

What proof do you have of that? Why wouldn't it say so if it meant that?

 

[Starlight]

What proof do you have of that? Why wouldn't it say so if it meant that?

It is commen sense that the Quranic verse is talking about women that has not menstruated because of illness. Do you think it is commen sense to marry a child?

There was women that did not get menstruation because of illness when prophet Muhammad was alive also.

 

[Shakeel]

It is commen sense that the Quranic verse is talking about women that has not menstruated because of illness. Do you think it is commen sense to marry a child?

There was women that did not get menstruation because of illness when prophet Muhammad was alive also.

If it was common sense I would get it and everyone else would get it, but your common sense seems to be very rare. In other words it's not common sense at all.

We don't interpret the Quran through logic. You have to begin by what it actually says. What it actually says mentions nothing about an illness. Though I do agree it would make sense that those with such a condition would be included in the group, but nothing excludes from it those who have not yet menstruated for other reasons.

It is permissable in the sharia law to marry a child. What I think about it is irrelevant, though I would be a fool to object to something Allah has permitted.

 

[stvdv]

It seems to me you are insisting upon an unnecessarily high degree of emotional stability here. What evidence do you have that 18-24(inclusive) year olds are too unstable to have a marriage? Personally I think that marriages can be good when they are made before people get set in their ways as it enables them to grow together and compromise more easily (although I don't know of any research to support this ).

I have always thought that its better to start a relationship young, before people get set in their ways, like you describe
But, 18 years is quite young, I think its usually better that people have the opportunity to study if they want
So, I always thought 21 or 22 years old would be a better age than 18, but exceptions are there

There are exceptions, who really just want to get married and not study, then let them marry, but I think it is good to make people aware of the pitfalls of marriage, and that its not all colorful. Age 18 quite a few are very innocent when it comes to the world. They think marriage will be all wonderful, and they don't realize its usually hard work also, unless you don't mind divorce later on (divorce rate is a good indicator IMO)

How I see it personally: If I would marry, it would be for life...not to divorce later on. I would rather marry age 18, no divorce than older+divorce

 

[stvdv]

It seems to me you are insisting upon an unnecessarily high degree of emotional stability here. What evidence do you have that 18-24(inclusive) year olds are too unstable to have a marriage? Personally I think that marriages can be good when they are made before people get set in their ways as it enables them to grow together and compromise more easily (although I don't know of any research to support this ).

Below some of the numbers about divorce rate from some dutch sites about Holland, how are the statistics in Australia?:

1) In Holland the divorce rate is ca. 40%, and I read years ago that the second/third marriage score quite a bit higher
2) In Holland 80% of all divorces its the woman who takes the initiative to divorce
3) In Holland the average age of the man is 37, and of the woman 33

Within the first 10 years of marriage:
*) Man+Man: 15% split up
*) Man+Woman: 18% split up
*) Woman+Woman: 30% split up

Some other statistics (I found about Holland (in Dutch)): below age 20 and between 40-50 scores highest with divorce:

Were you not yet twenty when you said yes to your love? Then the chance that you will get a divorce is greater than with people who got married after their twentieth birthday. This is evident from figures from the Central Bureau of Statistics (CBS). Also, according to the agency, getting married between your forties and fifties – during the midlife crisis – is not the best time to promise eternal fidelity.

*) People who had a mother who did not finish school divorce 24% more often than mothers with academic degrees
*) Marry again, and chances to divorce are 40% higher
*) Parents divorced, hence children have 19% more chance to divorce
*) People living together not married, are said to have a chance to divorce which is 50% higher
*) If good friends divorce, people themselves also easier divorce
*) Big city people also divorce more often

 

[Starlight]

If it was common sense I would get it and everyone else would get it, but your common sense seems to be very rare. In other words it's not common sense at all.

We don't interpret the Quran through logic. You have to begin by what it actually says. What it actually says mentions nothing about an illness. Though I do agree it would make sense that those with such a condition would be included in the group, but nothing excludes from it those who have not yet menstruated for other reasons.

It is permissable in the sharia law to marry a child. What I think about it is irrelevant, though I would be a fool to object to something Allah has permitted.

You wrote to me that the Quranic verse do not mention illness, but the truth is the Quranic verse do not mention children either! So your argument do not make sense.

 

[Shakeel]

You wrote to me that the Quranic verse do not mention illness, but the truth is the Quranic verse do not mention children either! So your argument do not make sense.

It mentions not having periods, which is most common in children.

 

[Starlight]

It mentions not having periods, which is most common in children.

Terrible you support sexual child abuse

I hope God will change your heart soon

And you are wrong. The Quran do not support child marriage. The Quranic verse is talking about women who have never menstruated because of illness. God do not support child marriage. The Quranic verse is talking about WOMEN, not children. A child is NOT a woman.

 

[epronovost]

I would find it unusual too, but it appears that the claim was made that the Quran says marriage is permissible at the age of full growth/prime strength.

That probably would be pass the first menses as a girl was considered from entering adult age at that time in pre-industrial societies. Child marriage was a norm in almost all societies prior to industrialization. It's still the norm in several country today and legal in many others, including the US. It should not be the case, but it is. I think anybody who thinks the Quran prohibits child marriage is trying to see their own morals in a text that was absolutely uninterested in protecting girls and women from sexual abuse.

 

[Shakeel]

Terrible you support sexual child abuse

I hope God will change your heart soon

And you are wrong. The Quran do not support child marriage. The Quranic verse is talking about women who have never menstruated because of illness. God do not support child marriage. The Quranic verse is talking about WOMEN, not children. A child is NOT a woman.

The word nisaa refers to women in general regardless of age.

 

[Link]

The word nisaa refers to women in general regardless of age.

But we understand all those forbidden in Quran from marriage are not included in that for example your sisters, aunts, those women who took milk from your mother at a certain age so there is no implication it's children which too are forbidden by the age of marriage/prime strength/rushid verses. You saying it's illness, but if God wanted to say children, he would've just stated that. The fact it describes not menstruating suggests it's about the women with that particular problem.

 

[Starlight]

That probably would be pass the first menses as a girl was considered from entering adult age at that time in pre-industrial societies. Child marriage was a norm in almost all societies prior to industrialization. It's still the norm in several country today and legal in many others, including the US. It should not be the case, but it is. I think anybody who thinks the Quran prohibits child marriage is trying to see their own morals in a text that was absolutely uninterested in protecting girls and women from sexual abuse.

There has never been a norm to marry (and constumate the marriage) to a 9 year old.

Some societes allowed girls above 12-13 years old to marry. But children below 12-13 years old has never been allowed to be married in most societes

 

[epronovost]

There has never been a norm to marry (and constumate the marriage) to a 9 year old.

Some societes allowed girls above 12-13 years old to marry. But children below 12-13 years old has never been allowed to be married in most societes

That's true. The goal of marriage was to produce heirs to pass down wealth in agrarian societies. It's useless to marry a woman who can't have a child because she is too young. A 14 years old girl is still a child though. Biologically speaking, adulthood in humans occurs around 20 years old when cerebral development is completed. Men used to marry in their twenties for the first time though amongst aristocrats it could be much later due to their lengthier education. You can promise a girl in marriage at any age though. I some societies it was common for aristocrats to seek suiters for their daughters while they were still being breastfed.