If the Quran sets the minimum age of marriage at 25

[firedragon]

It says no such thing.

Lol. So idda is without marriage? According to what is Idda without marriage? Please explain.

 

[firedragon]

'Under most laws, young people are recognized as adults at age 18. But emerging science about brain development suggests that most people don't reach full maturity until the age 25.' (for source see post #3). In other words, scientists are including brain development as part of being fully grown.

Okay. So scientists are considering 25 as "fully grown" right? Alright. Lets take that as a premise since you make the case. No problem.

But you claim the Quran is wrong in making that such an old age to get married and are depriving women of a younger birthing age marriage. So you think women should get married at a younger age.

Whats the minimum age you think is good for marriage?

 

[firedragon]

This is not about what I want, I'm just highlighting that words mean what they really mean, so if you are going to retrofit your modern interpretations into the Quran at least do so following the meaning of the words to their logical conclusion.

Nope. YOU either want the Quran to marry them off as children, or too old. Those are the only cases you have made so far. Either young, or too old. Nothing in the middle.

Okay. So what is the classical interpretation of the language. Can you explain linguistically?

Can you define linguistically?

 

[firedragon]

It says women the same way women's restrooms say women.

When people are ignorant of language, but pretend, this is an outcome.

 

[Shakeel]

When people are ignorant of language, but pretend, this is an outcome.

OK. Feel free to prove me wrong. Or rather just prove yourself right for once.

 

[danieldemol]

Okay. So scientists are considering 25 as "fully grown" right? Alright. Lets take that as a premise since you make the case. No problem.

But you claim the Quran is wrong in making that such an old age to get married and are depriving women of a younger birthing age marriage. So you think women should get married at a younger age.

Whats the minimum age you think is good for marriage?

I think most women are sufficiently grown for childbearing purposes by the time they are 18, and old enough to understand what a contract entails by the time they are 18, and old enough to protect themselves from being taken advantage of by the time they are 18 even though they haven't reached the maximum growth necessary to be scientifically defined as fullly grown. In other words I don't see any need to change existing laws.

 

[Shakeel]

Lol. So idda is without marriage? According to what is Idda without marriage? Please explain.

You think using words other can't understand makes you look smart, but it just makes others tired of trying to understand. Just use the translations. They exist.

 

[firedragon]

OK. Feel free to prove me wrong. Or rather just prove yourself right for once.

Yep. Tell me, whats the difference between Unsaa and Nisaa in the Qur'an?

 

[firedragon]

You think using words other can't understand makes you look smart, but it just makes others tired of trying to understand. Just use the translations. They exist.

Its right there in the same verse.

You dont know what Iddha means? What? I have never met a Muslim who did not know this word, even if they live in a far away land in a non-arab society. Never heard of one. I dont think I will hear of one in the future.

Unless of course he is a very recent Muslim. Then I understand.

 

[firedragon]

I think most women are sufficiently grown for childbearing purposes by the time they are 18, and old enough to understand what a contract entails by the time they are 18, and old enough to protect themselves from being taken advantage of by the time they are 18 even though they haven't reached the maximum growth necessary to be scientifically defined as fullly grown. In other words I don't see any need to change existing laws.

No one spoke of laws. Thats not the topic.

So "YOU THINK". Should I be surprised why you didnt do any googling about this age of 18? Well, now you can I suppose.

 

[Shakeel]

Yep. Tell me, whats the difference between Unsaa and Nisaa in the Qur'an?

You have these exchanges everyday. For some weird reason some people actually bother with you, but never once have I ever seen you post evidence so I'm not going waste time on you with that kind of expectations.

If you have proof you can post it. Not in a million years, right?

Its right there in the same verse.

You dont know what Iddha means? What? I have never met a Muslim who did not know this word, even if they live in a far away land in a non-arab society. Never heard of one. I dont think I will hear of one in the future.

Unless of course he is a very recent Muslim. Then I understand.

You use the same words with everyone. It's not for my benefit, but for the people in general. For those who bother to debate you, but whom with you don't have the courtesy to use the English language.

 

[firedragon]

You have these exchanges everyday. For some weird reason some people actually bother with you, but never once have I ever seen you post evidence so I'm not going waste time on you with that kind of expectations.

If you have proof you can post it. Not in a million years, right?

So you have no clue. Showing anger is a good way in your world I suppose, but it still remains you dont know what you are talking about. If you dont know, dont pretend, just say so.

You use the same words with everyone. It's not for my benefit, but for the people in general. For those who bother to debate you, but whom with you don't have the courtesy to use the English language.

So you know the word right? Its known by practically every Muslim. If you dont know, just ask. If you dont want to ask me because you have that superiority complex of yours, ask a fellow Muslim where ever you live.

 

[Shakeel]

So you have no clue. Showing anger is a good way in your world I suppose, but it still remains you dont know what you are talking about. If you dont know, dont pretend, just say so.



So you know the word right? Its known by practically every Muslim. If you dont know, just ask. If you dont want to ask me because you have that superiority complex of yours, ask a fellow Muslim where ever you live.

Like I said, not in a million years. Just ad hominems to make some noise. I don't read your posts anyway, so I don't care if you speak Hebrew, but it's stupid because it's an English language forum. More so since you pretend you want people to understand. Really you just want them to accept whatever you say because you say so.

 

[firedragon]

Like I said, not in a million years. Just ad hominems to make some noise. I don't read your posts anyway, so I don't care if you speak Hebrew, but it's stupid because it's an English language forum. More so since you pretend you want people to understand. Really you just want them to accept whatever you say because you say so.

See, Hebrew is not relevant to the Quran.

No one needs to know a particular language. Most important thing you need is humility.

Anyway, Iddha is like a term given to a woman as a sanctity after her husband dies, or in case of divorce. Only then. So indeed, she was married prior to that. So saying "the verse doesn't say they were married" is more stupid than speaking a martian language in an English forum.

So now that you have established you dont know arabic, and English is what you know, I will say everything in English like I would speak to anyone who admits they dont know the language of arabic. Now I understand why you were struggling with everything so much and just resorted to make general comments about people rather than understanding what they say. So now you are made aware.

Iddha is known throughout the Islamic world, where ever they are. Everyone knows this. Its like saying Salat or prayer. Its as common as that. The thing is its not a topic eternally discussed on the internet so a non-muslim would not know the word. I understand that of course.

The verse 65:4 says "Iddha", which is the period I spoke of yesterday. Lets say a man and woman are divorced, from the day of the divorce, for 3 months, the woman cannot be sent out of the home and she is protected by law inside their marital home. Also, this is a period that will reveal any pregnancy so in case the woman is pregnant, they have regulation to reconcile and get back if they wish. Thats why this period is given. The second reason for the Iddha is if the husband dies. Where ever she is living, if the husband dies today, for three months from tomorrow she cannot be sent out of that place. This is Quranic injunction. This is most common islamic law and tradition practiced globally. In every household.

So you didnt know about this. No problem. Now you know. Thats why when you said "the verse doesnt say they were married" it was like a thunderbolt at the lowest place in a city. STRANGE.

Peace.

 

[Shakeel]

No one needs to know a particular language. Most important thing you need is humility.

Your wish for people to crawl in front of you is noted as is your disdain on speaking a language everyone can understand. If they understood you they'd know how lame your arguments are.

Where ever she is living, if the husband dies today, for three months from tomorrow she cannot be sent out of that place.

It's four months and ten days for a widow.

2:234 "And those who are taken in death among you and leave wives behind - they, [the wives, shall] wait four months and ten [days]. And when they have fulfilled their term, then there is no blame upon you for what they do with themselves in an acceptable manner. And Allah is [fully] Acquainted with what you do."

Thats why when you said "the verse doesnt say they were married"

I don't recall saying such a thing.

 

[firedragon]

It's four months and ten days for a widow.

Mate. Thats for marriage.

Your wish for people to crawl in front of you is noted as is your disdain on speaking a language everyone can understand. If they understood you they'd know how lame your arguments are.

Not really. No one needs to crawl. Maybe you dont understand the English word humility either.

Humility doesn't mean one crawls. Humility is when a person accepts there are certain things he may not know, and any query, just asking, rather than barking at the other person which noise he thinks is deafening enough to hide behind the gate but feel like a bully down the street.

 

[Shakeel]

Mate. Thats for marriage.

Uh-huh. That's the topic.

 

[Shakeel]

Humility doesn't mean one crawls. Humility is when a person accepts there are certain things he may not know, and any query, just asking, rather than barking at the other person which noise he thinks is deafening enough to hide behind the gate but feel like a bully down the street.

forming a discussion where you force others to ask questions in order to understand you because you refuse to speak their language even though you're clearly able to is far far away from humility.

I don't think there is a need to elaborate on that any further. You're free to keep up with the show if some continue to be entertained by it.. I just feel bad for them.

 

[firedragon]

Uh-huh. That's the topic.

I was explaining the word iddha as known in the islamic world. Whatever world you are from, since you are so ignorant about it, I explained it.

No matter how much you want islam to be demonic, the Quran is against your agenda. So you must get agitated for sure.

Tell me. Have you read the chapter sana in the Quran?

 

[firedragon]

forming a discussion where you force others to ask questions in order to understand you because you refuse to speak their language even though you're clearly able to is far far away from humility.

The thing is you pretend to be a scholar and make facade claims. So I thought you knew at least one or two words. I never thought you didnt know a letter.

You are like some one becoming an English professor without knowing the ABC. So it's no ones fault.