If someone really is 100% forgiven, then why do they die?

[ATAT]

More than one biblical person didn't die. Their sins weren't so bad they didn't have to die.

OK.

Now we have a theology that says you must be 100% forgiven or you'll go to hell, be tortured forever in infinite pain and suffering, gnashing of teeth, boils, hot lava, calls from telemarketers, excessive Tron dialogue...

So, the theology goes, if and only if you are forgiven (read 100% forgiven for everything), only then can you get into heaven (plus you get a 10% discount from Wal-mart during the holidays and the latest I-Phone with FREE data plan).

So, doesn't it seem logically contradictory that all members of that theology have died throughout history since Jesus himself died and went to heaven?

Why are they experiencing death?

Shouldn't they just float on up to heaven when the time comes?

And what about Lazarus, if he can get two cracks at the get forgiven thing, why not everybody?

I mean, if G-d allows people to come back to life, why not bring everyone back to life, give them a quick run down on the rules of the game?

Or better, why not just line us all up, hit our toes with a blow torch until we see the light and accept the messiah? I don't see the down side.

Better yet, the moment Eve tasted the apple, stop everything, bring in Jesus, demand immediate belief, cut to the chase.

Why waste thousands of years running around the Middle East before the cross?

To teach us some idea about the laws being no good or somethin'?

Couldn't Jesus in a blaze of glory and miracles have just told us that on page two and spare all the Fillipinos from going to hell until Magellan arrived 600 years ago?

The common theme of this question is this:

If the whole point of existence is so simple as to be, 'You gotta believe in Jesus, end of story.' ... then why the long history before Jesus, why not just spell it out for us and practically force us to do the right thing?

I mean, if it really is true, what's the point of living life, dying, etc, why not just call an assembly, line us up, ask us one by one if we want to be pushed into the Lake of Fire on the left, or go to heaven by praying to Jesus on the right. Why hide the truth?

The story and the solution don't seem to fit with us being here, we don't need our life and death on earth if Jesus is the be all and end all of everything, nothing else is of moment, etc.

If Jesus really does forgive 100%, then why do we die? Why do we need a long life on earth? Just get born, immediately hold us over Dante's inferno / Lake of Fire, and ask us to choose the obvious.

...

unless it's not correct, then the whole theology is wrong.

 

[james2ko]

I mean, if G-d allows people to come back to life, why not bring everyone back to life, give them a quick run down on the rules of the game?

If the whole point of existence is so simple as to be, 'You gotta believe in Jesus, end of story.' ... then why the long history before Jesus, why not just spell it out for us and practically force us to do the right thing?

Not sure if you realize the prophetic insight to your questions but that is exactly what the bible indicates God intends to do!!

 

[Ben Dhyan]

If someone really is 100% forgiven, then why do they die?

If a student gets 100% final year's test pass, why do they leave school?

 

[truseeker]

i'm pretty sure everyone from Bible times is dead

 

[outhouse]

i'm pretty sure everyone from Bible times is dead

true, and no one has ever come back from the final sleep.

 

[PolyHedral]

If someone really is 100% forgiven, then why do they die?

If a student gets 100% final year's test pass, why do they leave school?

Because they've passed the course? That's assuming that they do leave and don't go on to further study...

 

[chinu]

If someone really is 100% forgiven, then why do they die?

Once, one of the messengers of God, ask one PIG
Would you like to go and stay in the "Heaven" ?
PIG Answred, I'll decide with my wife and tell you tommarow.

PIG went home and started the discussion with his wife:
Dear, we are getting the chance to go and stay at "Heaven" with the help of one divine Messenger.

PIG'S wife: Ask the messanger is there a plenty of dirt and dust in the "Heaven" for us to enjoy.

Next Day the PIG answerd, No!
PIG'S Wife, Leave the chance what we will do by going there, we are satisfied here.

Mean to say we people are like PIGS who do not want to leave this earth at any cost.

_/\_Chinu.

 

[BruceDLimber]

>If someone is 100% forgiven, why [does he or she] die?

For the simple reason that this life is a time of PREPARATION for the Next Life, to which we all go!

And IT is our true goal and ultimate domain!

(Further, various scriptures describe it as more wonderful than we can now imagine.)

Simple as that.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Nothing]

Once, one of the messengers of God, ask one PIG
Would you like to go and stay in the "Heaven" ?
PIG Answred, I'll decide with my wife and tell you tommarow.

PIG went home and started the discussion with his wife:
Dear, we are getting the chance to go and stay at "Heaven" with the help of one divine Messenger.

PIG'S wife: Ask the messanger is there a plenty of dirt and dust in the "Heaven" for us to enjoy.

Next Day the PIG answerd, No!
PIG'S Wife, Leave the chance what we will do by going there, we are satisfied here.

Mean to say we people are like PIGS who do not want to leave this earth at any cost.

_/\_Chinu.

I really like this story chinu! Yes, you could say people are like PIGS who do not want to leave the earth, and for the most part I agree with you. On the other hand, there is another potential interpretation of you story.
As you say, the PIGS are satisfied with the dirt and dust they have HERE which makes them unique since the majority of US (being PIGS or otherwise!?) are NOT satisfied with what we have here. Yet being unsatisfied, we STILL don't want to leave! For me, this defines hell.
The PIGS, being satisfied with the dust and dirt they already have, defines heaven!

 

[strikeviperMKII]

Without death, there can be no life. If you have one, but not the other, you have neither.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Death is a natural part of life. It's final, but it's also beautiful. The first key is to realize death is inevitable and cannot be stopped, so it's pointless to fear it. It comes to all. The second is, as Bruce said, that is only the beginning of the next adventure.

 

[Falvlun]

>If someone is 100% forgiven, why [does he or she] die?

For the simple reason that this life is a time of PREPARATION for the Next Life, to which we all go!

And IT is our true goal and ultimate domain!

(Further, various scriptures describe it as more wonderful than we can now imagine.)

Simple as that.

Peace,

Bruce

This might make sense in certain religions, but in hardcore Christian ones, who believe that salvation is obtained only by acceptance of Jesus, and in no other way, then the OP's question becomes pretty valid.

According to these hardcore Christians, the only thing we need to do in this life (to be prepared for the next life) is accept Jesus. If that is all that is required, then why go through this whole charade? Why the struggle?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Because they've passed the course? That's assuming that they do leave and don't go on to further study...

Hi PolyHedral,

Yes they graduate, and likewise incarnate souls who have learnt all the lessons needed to show their worthiness for graduation to the Heavenly Kingdom, leave the 'school' of earthly incarnation.

At least that is my present understanding.

 

[chinu]

For me, this defines hell.

You are blessed with the Great fortune by "Him".


"Him" means "God".


_/\_Chinu.

 

[fantome profane]

i'm pretty sure everyone from Bible times is dead

But Elijah and Enoch did not die, they were taken. And according to some Christian traditions Mary did not die either, she ascended into heaven.

If the wages of sin is death, then apparently we must pay this “wage” regardless of whether or not we are forgiven. That does seem to be a contradiction. If people are really forgiven why don’t they just ascend into heaven (there is precedent) , why must they still die?

 

[BruceDLimber]

This might make sense in certain religions, but in hardcore Christian ones, . . .

No problem whatever!

I'm not a "hardcore Christian" and have IMHO a far more constructive view of other religions, Christianity included!

And the scriptures I endeavor to follow paint a far more positive picture of the Next Life and what it will be like!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Muffled]

More than one biblical person didn't die. Their sins weren't so bad they didn't have to die.

Now we have a theology that says you must be 100% forgiven or you'll go to hell, be tortured forever in infinite pain and suffering, gnashing of teeth, boils, hot lava, calls from telemarketers, excessive Tron dialogue...

So, the theology goes, if and only if you are forgiven (read 100% forgiven for everything), only then can you get into heaven (plus you get a 10% discount from Wal-mart during the holidays and the latest I-Phone with FREE data plan).

So, doesn't it seem logically contradictory that all members of that theology have died throughout history since Jesus himself died and went to heaven?

Why are they experiencing death?

Shouldn't they just float on up to heaven when the time comes?

And what about Lazarus, if he can get two cracks at the get forgiven thing, why not everybody?

I mean, if G-d allows people to come back to life, why not bring everyone back to life, give them a quick run down on the rules of the game?

Or better, why not just line us all up, hit our toes with a blow torch until we see the light and accept the messiah? I don't see the down side.

Better yet, the moment Eve tasted the apple, stop everything, bring in Jesus, demand immediate belief, cut to the chase.

Why waste thousands of years running around the Middle East before the cross?

To teach us some idea about the laws being no good or somethin'?

Couldn't Jesus in a blaze of glory and miracles have just told us that on page two and spare all the Fillipinos from going to hell until Magellan arrived 600 years ago?

The common theme of this question is this:

If the whole point of existence is so simple as to be, 'You gotta believe in Jesus, end of story.' ... then why the long history before Jesus, why not just spell it out for us and practically force us to do the right thing?

I mean, if it really is true, what's the point of living life, dying, etc, why not just call an assembly, line us up, ask us one by one if we want to be pushed into the Lake of Fire on the left, or go to heaven by praying to Jesus on the right. Why hide the truth?

The story and the solution don't seem to fit with us being here, we don't need our life and death on earth if Jesus is the be all and end all of everything, nothing else is of moment, etc.

If Jesus really does forgive 100%, then why do we die? Why do we need a long life on earth? Just get born, immediately hold us over Dante's inferno / Lake of Fire, and ask us to choose the obvious.

unless it's not correct, then the whole theology is wrong.

There goes you chance to have fifty virgins.

I don't remember that there was any criteria required before God took these people from earth.

That is not what the Bible says. A theology that isn't based on the Bible is incorrect.

Again such a theology is not Biblically based and therfore is incorrect.

There is no evidence that forgiveness provides any remedy for death. It does provide a great deal of protection from the wrath of God.

If you believe in re-incarnation then there are multiple opporunities for everyone.

The salvation that Jesus provides is not necessarily the goal but simply a palliative offered because people have not been able to achieve the goal. It then does not make sense to shortcut the opportunity to achieve the goal.

I don't believe in reading the first page in a book and flipping to the last page to see how it ends. There is too much entertainment in between that I would miss. The fact is that more fish are caught by reeling in the line causing the lure to move than by simply plunking the lure in the fishes face.

Life is a gift from God. It is what God intended for us from the beginning.