If Jesus was God, explain this verse...

[kjw47]

It takes you a whole lot of explaining to change what it says...

Emmanuel -- God with Us
And the WORD was GOD.

I just need the witness of two. Short and sweet.

You may not like it and reject it
Or you could think about it and do something about it
But the truth is something we all have to face.

God was with us---Yes Jesus as the IMAGE( never the real thing)--Jesus did Gods will 24/7-365( John 5:30)-- that is how one could see the Father through Jesus. And Gods power went through Jesus( Acts 2:22)
John 1:1 is proven error having a capitol G God in the last line
otherwise the second line reads in simple English trinity talk--and God was with God= impossible--there is one God.
Your translations as well have mortals bowing in worship to a mortal Jesus--- that never occurred--they bowed in obeisance to their king. Not even angels get worship--Jesus was made lower than the angels while on earth--a mortal)Heb 2:7-9

Trinity translations are filled with error to fit Catholicism false council teachings--no one else translated until all originals were gone, (1000 years after the councils)--Catholicism translating remained.
Not a single protestant religion fixed it--they are all in error--they have become --Mark 3:24-26-- a house divided( 33,000 trinity based religions) will not stand.

 

[Kenny]

View attachment 17605

So where is Emmanuel?

Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Flores, even after I have been among you such a long time?

Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart,
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God (PLURAL) is one LORD (SINGULAR): (In the Christian view, of course)

Let US make man in OUR IMAGE AND IN OUR LIKENESS


YOU (SINGULAR) are a SPIRIT which has a SOUL and you live in a BODY (PLURAL)!!

 

[Kenny]

God was with us---Yes Jesus as the IMAGE( never the real thing)--Jesus did Gods will 24/7-365( John 5:30)-- that is how one could see the Father through Jesus. And Gods power went through Jesus( Acts 2:22)
John 1:1 is proven error having a capitol G God in the last line
otherwise the second line reads in simple English trinity talk--and God was with God= impossible--there is one God.
Your translations as well have mortals bowing in worship to a mortal Jesus--- that never occurred--they bowed in obeisance to their king. Not even angels get worship--Jesus was made lower than the angels while on earth--a mortal)Heb 2:7-9

Trinity translations are filled with error to fit Catholicism false council teachings--no one else translated until all originals were gone, (1000 years after the councils)--Catholicism translating remained.
Not a single protestant religion fixed it--they are all in error--they have become --Mark 3:24-26-- a house divided( 33,000 trinity based religions) will not stand.

I disagree.

 

[MJFlores]

Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Flores, even after I have been among you such a long time?

Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart,
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God (PLURAL) is one LORD (SINGULAR): (In the Christian view, of course)



View attachment 17621
Let US make man in OUR IMAGE AND IN OUR LIKENESS


YOU (SINGULAR) are a SPIRIT which has a SOUL and you live in a BODY (PLURAL)!!

That reminded me of breakfast.

Comparing something or someone who is not God to prove God is unbelievable and surreal. The Analogy does not fit.

As I have told you before your concept was taken from a Hindu origin - the Ayyavazhi Trinity
Ayyavazhi Trinity - Wikipedia

You are threading between Judeo-Christian-Hindu belief.

Wow, that is scary.

In their religion what do they believe?

Akilam narrates that the Avatar (incarnation) of Vaikundar is the combination of three dimensions of God and it happens in three stages.

• The Soul (Ekam) - The Soul of Ultimate God (compare withParameshwara/God-father of Abrahamic religions)
• The Spirit - The Spirit (Karana Sarira) of Narayana (Compare with Holy spirit)
• The Body - The Body of Muthukutty (Human Being, compare with Holy Son Jesus)

Ayyavazhi Trinity is'nt even sanctioned by the Catholic and Protestant churches but of Hindu origin. That makes it weirder, doesn't it?

Whether the earliest Church Fathers believed in the Trinity or not is a subject for debate. Some of the evidence used to support an early belief in the Trinity are triadic statements (referring to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit) from the New Testament and the Church Fathers. The view that the Son was 'of the essence of the Father, God of God...very God of very God' was formally ratified at the First Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. The Holy Spirit was included at the First Council of Constantinople (381 AD), where the relationship between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as one substance (ousia) and three co-equal persons (hypostaseis) was formally ratified.
Trinitarianism in the Church Fathers - Wikipedia

Told you the Trinity was voted upon, not in the Bible.

 

[Kenny]

Comparing something or someone who is not God to prove God is unbelievable and surreal. The Analogy does not fit.

As a blessing, your opinion isn't what I go by. I simply quote the Bible and showed it's very simple explanation.

You have yet to prove to me that I am not three parts and yet one person. (Biblicallly--not by full page essays, movie clips and personal opinions.

 

[MJFlores]

As a blessing, your opinion isn't what I go by. I simply quote the Bible and showed it's very simple explanation.

You have yet to prove to me that I am not three parts and yet one person. (Biblicallly--not by full page essays, movie clips and personal opinions.

View attachment 17629

A person has spirit, body and soul.
What is there not to prove?

However, your concept of Trinity is Hindu - Ayyavazhi Trinity which is totally wrong.

Ayyavazhi Trinity - Wikipedia
According to the Ayyavazhi religion, the Ayyavazhi Trinity is the incarnation of God in the current stage of world development (Kali Yukam). Ayya Vaikundar, the Incarnation, is the combination of the Ultimate God, Narayana, and Human Being. In Akilam immediately after the Incarnation of Vaikundar, he was viewed simultaneously as the Ultimate God, Narayana, and as son of Narayana. As per the earlier deed Narayana had to destroy Kaliyan, but due to the boons that kaliyan claimed Narayana cannot destroy him. And as per the promise made by Kaliyan, he would only be destroyed, if he give torture to any Pantaram. To overcome all these, such a unique way of Incarnation was planned.

Akilam narrates that the Avatar (incarnation) of Vaikundar is the combination of three dimensions of God and it happens in three stages.

• The Soul (Ekam) - The Soul of Ultimate God (compare withParameshwara/God-father of Abrahamic religions)
• The Spirit - The Spirit (Karana Sarira) of Narayana (Compare with Holy spirit)
• The Body - The Body of Muthukutty (Human Being, compare with Holy Son Jesus)

What is the nature of:

The Father (the only true God) - spirit
The Holy Spirit (not God) - seven spirits
The Son of God (not God) - a man - body, soul and spirit

John 4:24 - God is spirit

Revelation 5:6 - seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth

Jesus have a body
Matthew 26:12
When she poured this perfume on my body, she did it to prepare me for burial.

Jesus have a soul
Matthew 26:38
Then he said to them, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.”

Jesus have a spirit
Luke 23:46
Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.

Your Trinity is something Hindu, the Ayyavazhi Trinity

 

[Kenny]

View attachment 17633

A person has spirit, body and soul.
What is there not to prove?

I'm not talking about the other religions. You ask how you can have three and still be one? You have your answer.

Have you seen my spirit? No. But if you have seen me, you have seen my spirit.


9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

WE ARE MADE IN HIS IMAGE AND IN HIS LIKENESS.

You may not like it and reject it
Or you could think about it and do something about it
But the truth is something we all have to face.

 

[MJFlores]

I'm not talking about the other religions. You ask how you can have three and still be one? You have your answer.

Have you seen my spirit? No. But if you have seen me, you have seen my spirit.


9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

WE ARE MADE IN HIS IMAGE AND IN HIS LIKENESS.

You may not like it and reject it
Or you could think about it and do something about it
But the truth is something we all have to face.

I hope you were not traumatized. We both discussing who Christ is and how imaginary and fictitious is the Trinity, whether made in Nicaea or India.

Your concept of what is the Trinity was taken from Ayyavazhi Trinity, which wasn't the one made in Turkey by the dead old bishops. Yours was made in India.

I see you quoted John 14:9 let us extend this for clarity.

Question

Jesus said “He who has seen Me has seen the Father…” (John 14:9b, NASB). Thus, Jesus Christ is God.


ANSWER:


The verses followed John 14:9 explained why Jesus said “He who has seen Me has seen the Father.” Let us first quote verses 7-8 the we continue up to verse 11:

John 14:7-11 NIV
“If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.”

Philip the Apostle asked Jesus to show them the Father. He answered Philip, “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.” The verses that followed explained why Jesus said “He who has seen Me has seen the Father.” He said, “How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?”

Jesus said that “He who has seen Me has seen the Father” not because Jesus is the Father, but because He is in the Father and the Father is in Him. Also, when Jesus said “It is the Father living in me, who is doing His work” also further explains why He said “he who has seen Me has seen the Father.”

Who has seen Jesus has seen the Father, not because Jesus is the Father, that Jesus is God, but because the Father is in Him, the Father is living in Him, and the Father is doing His work in Him. Why did the Lord Jesus said that the Father is doing His work in Him? Apostle Peter explained this:

Acts 2:22 TEV
“Listen to these words, fellow Israelites! Jesus of Nazareth was a man whose divine authority was clearly proven to you by all the miracles and wonders which God performed through him. You yourselves know this, for it happened here among you.”

The Father is doing His work in Jesus because the Father (God) performed many miracles, wonders and signs THROUGH Jesus Christ. Thus, this is the reason why Jesus said that “He who has seen Me has seen the Father.” Because the miracles, wonders and signs seen in Christ, it is God who performed it through Him. Indeed, the Bible attests that the invisible God can be seen through the things He made:

Romans 1:20 TEV
“Ever since God created the world, his invisible qualities, both his eternal power and his divine nature, have been clearly seen; they are perceived in the things that God has made. So those people have no excuse at all!”

God did many miracles, signs and wonders THROUGH Jesus Christ. Thus, when Philip asked Jesus to show them the Father, He replied “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?…it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.”

God is spirit - yes?
God is invisible - yes?
No one has seen God at any time - yes?
So what is the image of God if he is spirit, invisible and unseen?

 

[Kenny]

I hope you were not traumatized. We both discussing who Christ is and how imaginary and fictitious is the Trinity, whether made in Nicaea or India.

Your concept of what is the Trinity was taken from Ayyavazhi Trinity, which wasn't the one made in Turkey by the dead old bishops. Yours was made in India.

Funny... I don't remember quoting from Ayyavazhi. I though I was quoting the scriptures...

Remind me to tear out John 1:1, 14 and all other references to Jesus being God.

It's funny how you have such a capacity to take away from the word. Hmmmm.... I think God spoke in reference to those who take away from the word.

Your main problem is that you are thinking of The Word only within the context of the 33 year manifestation in the Flesh.

Phil 2
6 Though he was in the form of God, he did not consider being equal with God something to exploit.
7 But he emptied himself by taking the form of a slave and by becoming like human beings. When he found himself in the form of a human,

thus, oh ye of hardness of heart and slow to believe, are thinking that the emptied self becoming like human beings is the same as The Word.

You look at that which was temporal instead of that which is eternal. It is a carnal way of looking at things.

 

[kjw47]

Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Flores, even after I have been among you such a long time?

Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart,
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God (PLURAL) is one LORD (SINGULAR): (In the Christian view, of course)



View attachment 17621
Let US make man in OUR IMAGE AND IN OUR LIKENESS


YOU (SINGULAR) are a SPIRIT which has a SOUL and you live in a BODY (PLURAL)!!

Let us( YHVH(Jehovah) and his master worker( prov 8)( Jesus) make man in our image.

 

[kjw47]

I disagree.

Bible fact that cannot be denied.

 

[Kenny]

Let us( YHVH(Jehovah) and his master worker( prov 8)( Jesus) make man in our image.

Except... And the Word WAS God.

 

[Kenny]

Bible fact that cannot be denied.

EXACTLY!

 

[MJFlores]

Funny... I don't remember quoting from Ayyavazhi. I though I was quoting the scriptures...

Remind me to tear out John 1:1, 14 and all other references to Jesus being God.

It's funny how you have such a capacity to take away from the word. Hmmmm.... I think God spoke in reference to those who take away from the word.

Your main problem is that you are thinking of The Word only within the context of the 33 year manifestation in the Flesh.

Phil 2
6 Though he was in the form of God, he did not consider being equal with God something to exploit.
7 But he emptied himself by taking the form of a slave and by becoming like human beings. When he found himself in the form of a human,

thus, oh ye of hardness of heart and slow to believe, are thinking that the emptied self becoming like human beings is the same as The Word.

You look at that which was temporal instead of that which is eternal. It is a carnal way of looking at things.

John 1:1,14 and all verses are there to stay. The problem there is people jumping to the wrong conclusions. When they read something, they put on the brakes and conclude what they like to conclude.

Sad, but the Ayyavazhi has been in business before you and your parents were born (mid 1800) and it has an 8,000,000 followers in Southern India. When people wan't to be "carnal" they think of India as the raw model - as in Kama Sutra.
Kama Sutra - Wikipedia

Which would win? Darkness or Light? Truth or Lies? Good or Evil? Not my job to take out the word, that belongs to those who do not know God and refused to wake up to the truth. What can I do if that is the truth that Jesus is a very special man and he is not God.What can I do if the Trinity is not in the bible, even the word Trinity per se is not in the bible? What can I do if history books reveal that Jesus is God doctrine was agreed upon in 325 A.D. and HS is God in 381 A.D. in places now in Turkey, just near where Satan sits?

You have again quoted Phil 2:6-7 but you should continue it to the 11th. Why stop there? You would miss the context.

Philippians 2:8-11 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

he humbled himself by being fully obedient to God,
even when that caused his death—death on a cross.
So God raised him up to the most important place
and gave him the name that is greater than any other name.
God did this so that every person will bow down to honor the name of Jesus.
Everyone in heaven, on earth, and under the earth will bow.
They will all confess, “Jesus Christ is Lord,”
and this will bring glory to God the Father.

Why stop at the 7th, you should include 8-11 also. So Jesus did not obey himself, he obeyed God. Jesus did not raise himself up, God exalted him. Jesus did not give himself a name greater than any other name, it was God.

GOD IS NOT A SON OF MAN WHILE
JESUS IS CALLED “SON OF MAN”

God is not a man, nor a son of man:

“God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?” (Numbers 23:19 NKJV)

Jesus is called the “Son of Man”:

“When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?" So they said, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets." He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” (Matthew 16:13-16 NKJV)

 

[Kenny]

J
You have again quoted Phil 2:6-7 but you should continue it to the 11th. Why stop there? You would miss the context.

Philippians 2:8-11 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

he humbled himself by being fully obedient to God,
even when that caused his death—death on a cross.
So God raised him up to the most important place
and gave him the name that is greater than any other name.
God did this so that every person will bow down to honor the name of Jesus.
Everyone in heaven, on earth, and under the earth will bow.
They will all confess, “Jesus Christ is Lord,”
and this will bring glory to God the Father.

Why stop at the 7th, you should include 8-11 also. So Jesus did not obey himself, he obeyed God. Jesus did not raise himself up, God exalted him. Jesus did not give himself a name greater than any other name, it was God.

OH but I DO take it in context. You omit 6-7 which speaks of The Word as God and only look at 8-11 when it speaks of Jesus clothed as man.

So, my dear one, take 8-11 in context of 6-7.

6-7 deals with The Word WAS God
8-11 deals with And The Word was made FLESH!

 

[MJFlores]

OH but I DO take it in context. You omit 6-7 which speaks of The Word as God and only look at 8-11 when it speaks of Jesus clothed as man.

So, my dear one, take 8-11 in context of 6-7.

6-7 deals with The Word WAS God
8-11 deals with And The Word was made FLESH!

It would be redundant if I quoted 6-7 but for clarity, I would show everything.

Though he was divine by nature, he did not set store upon equality with God.

Jesus did not set store equality with the Trinity?
You said he was the Trinity?
Then the Trinity then was not a Trinity because they were 2 (F+HS)? Is that it?

6-7 deals with The Word WAS God
saw the all caps on WAS - meaning to say he is no longer God, is that it?

8-11 deals with And The Word was made FLESH!
So when he is no longer God because he emptied himself and became Flesh - there is no more Trinity?

Your emphasis The Word WAS God - past tense, no longer God so the Trinity is no longer TRI

Or would my understanding is much more lucid.

Though he was divine by nature, he did not set store upon equality with God 7 but emptied himself by taking the nature of a servant; born in human guise 8 and appearing in human form, he humbly stooped in his obedience even to die, and to die upon the cross.

Jesus was holy by nature, he is not God because God is Almighty. He humbled himself as he is human, conceived through the Holy Spirit born by Mary his mother, obedient to God and died on the cross.

9 Therefore God raised him high and conferred on him a Name above all names, 10 so that before the Name of Jesus every knee should bend in heaven, on earth, and underneath the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that 'Jesus Christ is Lord,' to the glory of God the Father.

God raised the man, Jesus from the dead and exalted him at his right side. God gave him a name above every name so everyone would worship the name of Jesus - every angel in heaven, every human on earth and those who died (and will be resurrected) will worship him to the glory of the one and only true God, the Father.

See how easy the truth is?

 

[Kenny]

Your emphasis The Word WAS God - past tense, no longer God so the Trinity is no longer TRI

1 Cor 14:
38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

 

[MJFlores]

1 Cor 14:
38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

Thanks for reminding me. Maybe I will let you.

 

[kjw47]

Except... And the Word WAS God.

Except... And the Word WAS God.

Trinity translating error--a god( small g is proven correct)--otherwise in simple trinity English the 2nd line reads--and God was with God= impossible, there is one God.
And at rev 3:12--God has a God= impossible
Rev 1:1--2 beings mentioned one is God( giver) one is Jesus( receiver)--Bible fact proves trinity translating errors.

 

[Kenny]

Trinity translating error--a god( small g is proven correct)--otherwise in simple trinity English the 2nd line reads--and God was with God= impossible, there is one God.
And at rev 3:12--God has a God= impossible
Rev 1:1--2 beings mentioned one is God( giver) one is Jesus( receiver)--Bible fact proves trinity translating errors.

I have read nothing about it being proven a small g