If Jesus is God why doesn't the Bible say so?

[RESOLUTION]

We are all "children" of God.

Ishmael was circumcised and blessed with 12 sons and a region for his descendants by God, is a part of the Covenant. Circumcision is the sign of Covenant between Abraham and God for ALL his descendants.

You need to read your Bible. Islam acknowledges the special status of the Israelites but it doesn't take anything away from Ishmael or Islam. It honors them with this distinction in the Qur'an.

Arabs are Ishmaelites according to the Bible, Mohammed (s) WAS an Arab/Ishmaelite.

You could not be more incorrect.

Those prophecies that say absolutely NOTHING about the Messiah being God further prove my point.

Do you ever read what someone writes in reply.

I told you the bible never said Jesus the Messiah would be God. I also pointed out why it says that.
Do you ever read any replies?

Ishmael was not the Son of GODS Covenant. His descendants have no Covenant with God.

But the promise of many nations and many descendants came only through Isaac the Son of Sarah and Abraham.
The Koran is not part of Abrahams covenant or Isaacs covenant and the Israelites. Being an Arab or an Ishmaelite plays no part in Gods covenant with Abraham, Isaac or Jacob.
It is not part of Gods plans in the Torah and has no part in the faith of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

The Messiah is the Son of God and he is raised from Isaac and Jacobs descendants. So we know the Disciples, Christ and the Prophets never taught the Messiah would be God incarnate
but that Jesus would come in the flesh and God would be with him and he himself would put his words into Christ's mouth.

This Jesus being God thing was a ploy employed by the RC to stop the Jews from recognising their Messiah and taking their rightful place.
Christ was the corner stone of the builders the Jews. But the Gentiles who believed what God said about him were grafted in. The truth is that even gentiles who are grafted in are now
realising that Jesus came in the flesh and God was with him as Peter and John taught.

But there is no place according to the Jewish religion for Islam or a god NOT Know to YHWH or a faith not created by him.

Being a descendant of Ishmael gives no precedence in the house of Israel where the descendance of Isaac and Jacob are the chosen line.

You believe what you believe. We all believe or disbelieve something. But according to the Jewish faith there is no covenant ever made which gives a separate belief or precedence over Isaac and God regarding the promises God made to Abraham and Sarah about Isaac. Ishmael was not born of Sarah. It has no precedence in accordance with Gods teachings.

We do not invent these things or decide them. It is simply what God himself has taught in the Torah and to the Jews. God himself declaring he is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Never ever did Ishmael become part of Gods plan and covenant for the descendants of Gods promise through Isaac son of Abraham and Sarah.


I think he made it plain about choice of the Son when Jacob and Esau were born.


23 And the Lord said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.



It isn't any reflection on any single belief system. When we talk about Judaism and the Messiah. There is none son chosen and it was Isaac and his descendants.
Jesus Christ, the Messiah will be and is of that line. This is Gods CHOICE not mans. It is what it is.

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

I agree far more with Resolution than Seth. I have no dislike for the religion of Islam, which in my opinion was an belief that didn't appear until long after the other major religions were established.. However, as any schoolchild knowledgeable of the Abrahamic religions knows Christianity Judaism and Islam is similar all the way through the old testament until Abraham was asked as a ruse to show loyalty to sacrifice his son. Christianity teaches that Issac was the chosen one and Islam teaches Issac was chosen. So I being a Christian Ishmael was given the Arab states and lands that we see today. Issac had the divine seed and was promised the lands that include Israel and possess the only binding agreement with God as his chosen people.

God less our forum ~

: { >

 

[Not Bob]

God is God (and good, according to Jesus) ALONE.

He is not co-god with Jesus, Jesus(p) is just plain not God, as Divine as he is he is not a part of God, he is a seperate entity and less powerful, subordinate.

God doesn't require "family" like humans. God is above that. He has no equals or wife or children, even "He" is unnecessary as God is not male or female either.

Incomprehensible is what God is.

I also want to add to this what Numbers 23:19 says, " God is not a man, that he should lie; neither Son of Man, that he should repent."
Keep in mind there is no upper and lower case in Hebrew or even in Koine Greek, so there's no distinction between "son of man" and "Son of Man".

Tie that to Matthew 16:13 "Whom do men say that I the Son of Man am?"

 

[SethZaddik]

Often it is taken for granted that Jesus (p) is God. 2,000 years of tradition has taken precedent over the actual words of the Bible and the Word himself.

I am going to post the verses used to "prove" Jesus (p) is God, show how they do the exact opposite and thus prove with the evidence used pro Jesus being God it actually proves the opposite. It is not at all difficult.

Then I will post the verses that directly contradict the theory that Jesus is equal to God, and if he is not equal he is not God.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word(Logos), and the Word was with God (Tontheos) and the Word was God (theos, which means Divine or A god, NOT God).

I just wanted to point out it is ton theon, not ton theoS, that is a spelling error. Everything else is exactly the same as before, it is ton theon for "God" and theos ( much less honorific) for the Word(Logos) which was "theos" or "divine"(or A lesser god than ton theon aka God).

This is obviously not saying that Jesus is God in the original Koine Greek, it is saying that God's Word is Divine, borrowing from Platonic/Philonic philosophy (Logos) for a Hellenistic audience.

14: And the Word became flesh and lived amongst us.

Jesus was created BY the Word of God (virgin birth), as such he is CALLED the Word, even in Islam. Also because he was GIVEN authority to speak FOR God and clarify the Torah, which had been corrupted by tradition.

It is interesting that John is the only book that is used of all Gospels as an offer of proof, I have seen people TRY using the other 3 but it is not worthy of refutation being so ridiculous. Feel free to offer evidence to the contrary.

John 8:58

" Truly I tell you, before Abraham was, I am."

Because God says to Moses "I am that I am" it is ASSUMED Jesus means to say "I AM I am" but he doesn't say that AT ALL.

Punctuation was non existent, it could just as easily be "Before Abraham, was I am (God)."

But I will give the benefit of the doubt, besides, Muslims actually do believe in the preexistence of Jesus.

Which is ALL he was saying, before Abraham was, I am(prexistent, immortal, not God though).

John 10:30

"I and my Father are one."

Out of context I can see why people misinterpret this verse. Let's see what Jesus says right after this when he is about to be stoned:

"I have shown you many good works FROM THE FATHER."

His Father, our Father, the Father. Clearly Jesus is not saying he himself is God THE FATHER, and that his good works are FROM the Father and not of his doing alone.

Which is why he says, 10:29 "What my Father has GIVEN me is greater than all else, and no one (not even Jesus) can snatch it out of the Father's hand. THE Father and I are one."

A metaphor for a united will. God's will is Jesus will, not visa versa.

John 21:25 Judah Thomas exclaims excitedly:

"My lord and my God!"

Perhaps the most dishonest of "proofs" used to try supporting the Nicene Creed, Thomas, here an Apostle is in doubt that Jesus has ressurected until he touches him, odd scene because Mary Magdalene was not allowed to touch him because he had "not yet Ascended."

Nevertheless, Thomas didn't call Jesus "My lord AND my God." Despite Lord being commonly translated from YHVH, YHVH doesn't mean Lord and humans are called lord in the Bible all the time, by Hebrews. God is YHVH-Elohim or El Shaddai, El Elyon, etc.

Maybe he is calling Jesus his lord, but it is far from obvious or clear. He definitely is not calling him Elohim/God though, as he knows he is not God, Jesus talks ABOUT God but never says he IS God and neither does Thomas. "My God!" is an understandable response to seeing a dead man (reportedly, only Peter actually saw the crucifixion, little known fact that it is he denies Jesus because he is "stalking" the Messiah and while doing so is asked repeatedly if he is one of his disciples).

Now the proof that Jesus is not God or equal.

Mt. 24:36
"But about that day and hour no one knows, not angels in Heaven, nor the son, but ONLY the Father."

This destroys the theory of equality between God and Jesus

Mt. 26:39 "My Father, if possible, let this cup pass from me....Yet not what I want but what you want."

Jesus is asking if it is possible and His will, let him out of this situation he doesn't want to be in, but will nevertheless go through with it if GOD wills it so. It is clear who is the Power, God.

Mark 10:18
"Why do you call me good? No one is good but God ALONE."

That is an outright denial that Jesus is God in the flesh. If God alone, not Jesus the Messiah, is good and Jesus rebuked someone who called him good on that account, denying being good even, he can't possibly be God. Because God IS good, ALONE, not Jesus (who is obviously good, but he is making a point, specifically, save the praises for the One Who deserves them, God).

I feel I have proven my point and will leave you with the knowledge that John 5:19,29, 30; 14:28 & 17:21-23 also prove it if you want to look them up. I just don't want this to be too long.

Peace be upon Jesus and the 12 Apostles.

Peace be with you all/Salaam.

Salaam, great thread everyone!

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

If Jesus is God, why doesn't the Bible say so? If Muhammed is a prophet, why doesn't the Bible say so? Does the Bible have to spell out every detail of everything you believe? When Jesus said that He and the Father were one, that is saying Jesus and the Father are the one God. The Bible never uses the word trinity but people believe in a trinity. The Bible never says Jesus died on Friday or rose on Sunday but people believe this.The Bible says the Word was with God and the word WAS GOD and the Word became Jesus. Therefore Jesus is God. The Word is God, Jesus is the Word. Therefore Jesus is God.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I totally agree with you.
You mean Col 1v3??? Didn't see it in Col 3v1. But anyhow....
In the Psalms, David calls YAHWEH, LORD and Lord. Moses and some angels are called Lord too. In the NT, Jesus is always called Lord and not LORD. But I wouldnt say that "Lord" stands for Jesus, but it doesnt. It is a title of authority. Jesus has it, GOD has it, Moses had it, etc.....

My point by the mention of Colossians 3:1 was in connection to Christ setting at God's right hand - Psalms 110:1
So, the lower-case Lord of Psalms 110 according to Colossians 3:1 is Lord ( Not LORD ) Jesus.
The Tetragrammaton (YHWH) is never applied to the lower-case Lord of Psalms 110.
At Colossians 1:3 (KJV) uses the word God in that verse. Whereas at Psalms 110 there are two LORD/Lord's mentioned and Not two God/god's.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If Jesus is God, why doesn't the Bible say so? If Muhammed is a prophet, why doesn't the Bible say so? Does the Bible have to spell out every detail of everything you believe? When Jesus said that He and the Father were one, that is saying Jesus and the Father are the one God. The Bible never uses the word trinity but people believe in a trinity. The Bible never says Jesus died on Friday or rose on Sunday but people believe this.The Bible says the Word was with God and the word WAS GOD and the Word became Jesus. Therefore Jesus is God. The Word is God, Jesus is the Word. Therefore Jesus is God.

According to Scripture ( John 19:31 ) Jesus died right before the Sabbath ( Saturday )
The day before Saturday is: Friday.

In the 'beginning' was the Word. Whereas God had No beginning according to Psalms 90:2
John also wrote at Revelation 3:14, 1:5 that Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God.
Only God was ' before ' the beginning being from everlasting....
So, Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.

The same Greek grammar rule applies at John 1:1 and also at Acts of the Apostles 28:6 B.
The letter 'a' is inserted at Acts 28:6 (KJV) while the letter 'a' is omitted at John 1 (KJV)

Didn't John say that No man has seen God at any time...... according to John 1:18; 1John 4:12; Exodus 33:20
John also wrote that No man has seen the Father according to John 6:46
John wrote that 'Nathanael' believed Jesus to be Son at John 1:49
John wrote that the 'apostles' believed Jesus to be Son at John 6:69
John wrote that 'Jesus' believed he was Son at John 10:36
John wrote that 'Martha' believed Jesus was Son at John 11:27
John wrote that he 'John' concluded that Jesus is son at John 20:31

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

There are two kinds of Sabbaths. Weekly Sabbath is always on Saturday. There are annual Sabbaths that can be on any day just like Christmas can be on any day. Jesus died at the time of the Passover which is one of those annual Sabbaths. It was on Thursday in that year. If Jesus died before that Passover Sabbath ( which He did ) then He died on Wednesday. Three full days and three full nights would bring us to Saturday evening. The Bible does NOT say Jesus rose on Sunday morning. When people went to the tomb Sunday morning ( BEFORE sunrise ) the tomb was already empty. No one saw Jesus rise from the tomb. It was EMPTY very early Sunday morning. Maybe He rose sometime after sunset Saturday. Then you have the three full days and nights. Doesn't that make more sense than trying to say the Bible does not really mean three days and nights because of some language twist? There is also a Bible verse that says the women bought spices AFTER the Sabbath. Another verse says they prepared the spices and then rested on the Sabbath. This is only possible if there are two Sabbaths. They bought the spices after the Passover Sabbath ( Thursday ) then prepared them and rested on the weekly Sabbath ( Saturday ). Everyone would rather find excuses why the Bible does not mean what it says and accept the false garbage taught by the false churches.

 

[SethZaddik]

I agree far more with Resolution than Seth.

Based on what, your opinion?

So what? I will have to prove you are wrong which I will enjoy as soon as I figure out what you are talking about.

Every fact and quote applicable to the false notion that the Bible says Jesus is God I have systematically refuted beyond hope of redemption.

It can't be aught but your opinion because the facts, as I have easily shown, prove that it is a 100% fact that the Jesus denied being God many times and the Bible doesn't disagree.

Just you. I can live with that.

I have no dislike for the religion of Islam, which in my opinion was an belief that didn't appear until long after the other major religions were established.

You have fact and opinion confused regarding definition. Islam is factually later than the others, 600AD roughly.

. However, as any schoolchild knowledgeable of the Abrahamic religions knows Christianity Judaism and Islam is similar all the way through the old testament until Abraham was asked as a ruse to show loyalty to sacrifice his son. Christianity teaches that Issac was the chosen one and Islam teaches Issac was chosen. So I being a Christian Ishmael was given the Arab states and lands that we see today. Issac had the divine seed and was promised the lands that include Israel and possess the only binding agreement with God as his chosen people.

God less our forum ~

: { >

I have absolutely no idea what your point is or even what you are agreeing with.

Are you saying Ishmael has no right to the Covenant given him by God?

Or that the Bible actually does say Jesus is God?

Both are incorrect, one I have proven effortlessly. Be back in a sec for the rest.

Remember fact means true, opinion means you think so.

It is a fact, disagree all you want, that Ishmael was a recipient of the Covenant, I'd happily show you the applicable verse.

And it is also a fact that the Bible never honestly says or even implies Jesus is God (pbuh), and that Jesus flat out denied it.

Have fun with your opinions that are easily contradicted by fact and have fun agreeing with people who don't have their facts straight.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

The Bible does not say Muhammad was a prophet so it must not be true.

 

[SethZaddik]

If Jesus is God, why doesn't the Bible say so? If Muhammed is a prophet, why doesn't the Bible say so?

He (saws) wasn't born yet is why.

There are prophecies applicable though. The OT doesn't say that Jesus is a Prophet pbuh or that the Messiah will be God.

Any more genius questions?

Does the Bible have to spell out every detail of everything you believe?

It should agree with what Christianity teaches at the least. It doesn't though.

When Jesus said that He and the Father were one, that is saying Jesus and the Father are the one God.

I clearly refuted this notion in the OP which you should have read. It is NOT saying they are one entity but that JESUS does the will of GOD.

Not the other way around.

The Bible never uses the word trinity but people believe in a trinity.

It's made up. Nonsense. Unbiblical nonsense

The Bible never says Jesus died on Friday or rose on Sunday but people believe this.The Bible says the Word was with God and the word WAS GOD and the Word became Jesus. Therefore Jesus is God. The Word is God, Jesus is the Word. Therefore Jesus is God.

Did you think you were saying anything that comes close to a refutation of facts?

You literally have to lie to accomplish that, you did not lie, but misinterpreted a metaphor as meaning what you want it to or were told it does.

See the OP for full explanation.

 

[SethZaddik]

The Bible does not say Muhammad was a prophet so it must not be true.

Islam uses the Qur'an, that makes no sense whatsoever. Are you trying to be illogical because you are mad I shine light on deception?

 

[SethZaddik]

I agree far more with Resolution than Seth. I have no dislike for the religion of Islam, which in my opinion was an belief that didn't appear until long after the other major religions were established.. However, as any schoolchild knowledgeable of the Abrahamic religions knows Christianity Judaism and Islam is similar all the way through the old testament until Abraham was asked as a ruse to show loyalty to sacrifice his son. Christianity teaches that Issac was the chosen one and Islam teaches Issac was chosen. So I being a Christian Ishmael was given the Arab states and lands that we see today. Issac had the divine seed and was promised the lands that include Israel and possess the only binding agreement with God as his chosen people.

God less our forum ~

: { >

Ishmael was circumcised in Genesis 17:26 and regardless of the Covenant of Isaac circumcision is the sign of belonging to that Covenant, through Abraham, Isaac and God.

17:20 For Ishmael too I grant you a request: I BLESS HIM AND MAKE HIM FRUITFUL AND GREATLY INCREASE IN NUMBERS. He shall be the FATHER OF 12 PRINCES, and I will make him into a great nation.

If you have figured out the difference yet, this is FACTUALLY what the Bible says about Ishmael and confirms everything I said it would.

I said Arabs are Ishmaelites and descendants of Abraham with every right to worship the God OF Abraham.

Why don't you show me how I am wrong and what you were agreeing with that disagrees with the Bible.

Why didn't you just look it up? You just take others (in this case erroneous) opinions as fact without verification?

That must lead to much embarrassment.

 

[SethZaddik]

Do you ever read what someone writes in reply.

I told you the bible never said Jesus the Messiah would be God. I also pointed out why it says that.
Do you ever read any replies?

Ishmael was not the Son of GODS Covenant. His descendants have no Covenant with God.

But the promise of many nations and many descendants came only through Isaac the Son of Sarah and Abraham.
The Koran is not part of Abrahams covenant or Isaacs covenant and the Israelites. Being an Arab or an Ishmaelite plays no part in Gods covenant with Abraham, Isaac or Jacob.
It is not part of Gods plans in the Torah and has no part in the faith of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

The Messiah is the Son of God and he is raised from Isaac and Jacobs descendants. So we know the Disciples, Christ and the Prophets never taught the Messiah would be God incarnate
but that Jesus would come in the flesh and God would be with him and he himself would put his words into Christ's mouth.

This Jesus being God thing was a ploy employed by the RC to stop the Jews from recognising their Messiah and taking their rightful place.
Christ was the corner stone of the builders the Jews. But the Gentiles who believed what God said about him were grafted in. The truth is that even gentiles who are grafted in are now
realising that Jesus came in the flesh and God was with him as Peter and John taught.

But there is no place according to the Jewish religion for Islam or a god NOT Know to YHWH or a faith not created by him.

Being a descendant of Ishmael gives no precedence in the house of Israel where the descendance of Isaac and Jacob are the chosen line.

You believe what you believe. We all believe or disbelieve something. But according to the Jewish faith there is no covenant ever made which gives a separate belief or precedence over Isaac and God regarding the promises God made to Abraham and Sarah about Isaac. Ishmael was not born of Sarah. It has no precedence in accordance with Gods teachings.

We do not invent these things or decide them. It is simply what God himself has taught in the Torah and to the Jews. God himself declaring he is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Never ever did Ishmael become part of Gods plan and covenant for the descendants of Gods promise through Isaac son of Abraham and Sarah.


I think he made it plain about choice of the Son when Jacob and Esau were born.


23 And the Lord said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.



It isn't any reflection on any single belief system. When we talk about Judaism and the Messiah. There is none son chosen and it was Isaac and his descendants.
Jesus Christ, the Messiah will be and is of that line. This is Gods CHOICE not mans. It is what it is.

The reason I don't read long winded rants like this are they are erroneous, claim that I said things I didn't and present without quotation, as a refutation.

Guess what?

I never said anything about "Ishmael is son of the Covenant."

If my memory serves me right all I said was that Ishmael was part of the Covenant (see above for proof) and that as descendants of Abraham PBUH, Mohammed (saws)and the Arabs have as legitimate a claim as any genetic Israelites do.

More than Ashkenazi Gomeric Yaphetites called Jewish people by religion only.

And it was true and still is.

 

[SethZaddik]

Thank you people who have nothing better to do than debate whether or not Ishmael belonged to a Covenant that is established by circumcision in his very own family.

Thanks for wasting time making me prove how little you know because you (guessing here) associate Ishmael with Islam and wish anything but that we are a legitimate religion of the God of Abraham PBUH.

Thanks for allowing me the opportunity to prove you don't know what you are talking about.

I do enjoy it.

 

[SethZaddik]

I agree far more with Resolution than Seth.

How is that working for you now?

Heh. You need to do your own research and stop agreeing with people who don't know what they are talking about just because they know more than you.

I have no dislike for the religion of Islam, which in my opinion was an belief that didn't appear until long after the other major religions were established.. However, as any schoolchild knowledgeable of the Abrahamic religions knows Christianity Judaism and Islam is similar all the way through the old testament until Abraham was asked as a ruse to show loyalty to sacrifice his son. Christianity teaches that Issac was the chosen one and Islam teaches Issac was chosen. So I being a Christian Ishmael was given the Arab states and lands that we see today. Issac had the divine seed and was promised the lands that include Israel and possess the only binding agreement with God as his chosen people.

God less our forum ~

: { >

Did you mean, "God bless?"

I concur. Now start learning on your own so you don't get fooled into agreeing with factually deficient folks.

 

[SethZaddik]

I will be brief, neither Jesus who is also the Father

Let me stop you here. The Father can't also be the son. Are you aware of your own words?

could ever be the God of the Old Testament Yahweh/Jehovah, a war monger and baby bashing God. Satan

You might not believe that Jesus is the "son" of the God of the Bible, but the Bible and Jesus say otherwise so you don't exactly have the power to change that unless you use the Nag Hammadi scriptures and nothing Canonical.

from Job is a Prosecutor, an accuser/adjudicator but not an evil person, whereas the Jewish God is "I Jehovah am a man of war" Exodus 15:3 the opposite of the Loving Father, that says love your enemies, and cares even for a sparrow. It is this Semitic God Jehovah that is behind all the wars and terror in this world Today. This is the ancient serpent and his seed is the Jewish race. That does not mean all the Jews Today are the seed of the serpent as they have no proof they are descendants of Abraham anymore than the Indians, but it seems the Arabs have as a race from Ishmael and their warlike behavior.

So... God is Satan and he makes Muslims violent is what you read in a book 1,000 years older than Islam that hardly speaks of the Arabs/Ishmaelites after Genesis?

Interesting. And quite racist.

The only sign of the seed of Jehovah is your warlike behavior. The characters of the Bible are largely symbolic, they may well depict certain aspects our own personality we need to judge and other aspects to promote. The Old Testament should not be attached to the New Testament as Marcion's Bible the first well before the present Bible rejected.

Suddenly it's about the Arabs for some odd reason.

You have zero credibility and nobody is going to take you seriously.

Using the Bible to justify, in the most hypocritical fashion, your own personally held stereotypes and biggotry. Disgusting.

You just used the Bible to claim it is why Ishmaelites (just say Muslims, we all know what you mean) are allegedly warlike. Sickening.

But the Bible has the Jews in that role as well as... everybody, it is ancient.

What you are saying is you have been brainwashed into believing that God made Muslims violent, when they are not even violent.

That is classic racism.

Paul's epistles were used to justify slavery and state slaves should treat their masters "Not as men and women but as God" or Christ.

And they justify mistreating women.

Qur'an has sections on women's rights, to make a comparison and give you some knowledge that you will never bother to verify because you hate Islam.

The truth about Islam is it is not "warlike" any more than anything and less than most, but something tells me that is a fact you will refuse to accept.

Still a fact.

America, my country, and Christianity are much more "warlike" and have an actual history of forced conversion up until recent history, respectively. Concurrently too I suppose.

Islam, unlike Catholicism, was actually spread by diplomacy and missionary activity, the whole "by the sword" thing is rusty old propaganda that you have yet to figure out is complete bs.

Racism is not healthy, hate corrodes the spirit.

Stop.

Islam has an honorable code of war, is not "war like" but encourages and hopes for peace and only fights when countries like... America invade it.

Tell me, what was the last war STARTED by Ishmaelites, Arabs or even Muslims?

9/11 wasn't Islam, everyone who has a brain knows this. We can't trust the media or the government and have no reliable outlets for truth in the mainstream.

Palestine is a Jewish invaded, occupied prison camp that deprives Palestinians of basic human rights.

Syria and Iraq get bombed daily and people are fleeing daily because USA, Russia and Assad are warlike, war addicts.

But yeah, let's denigrate the Ishmaelites.

Your a winner.

 

[SethZaddik]

I totally agree with you.


You mean Col 1v3??? Didn't see it in Col 3v1. But anyhow....

In the Psalms, David calls YAHWEH, LORD and Lord. Moses and some angels are called Lord too. In the NT, Jesus is always called Lord and not LORD. But I wouldnt say that "Lord" stands for Jesus, but it doesnt. It is a title of authority. Jesus has it, GOD has it, Moses had it, etc.....

Lord is an incorrect translation for the original YHVH and thus doesn't even translate as Lord, which would be "Baal" or "Adon."

Besides that plenty of humans are called lord in the Bible including Jesus pbuh.

None of them are YHVH-Elohim or El Shaddai El Elyon etc.

Neither is Jesus pbuh.

 

[SethZaddik]

Do you ever read what someone writes in reply.

I told you the bible never said Jesus the Messiah would be God. I also pointed out why it says that.
Do you ever read any replies?

Ishmael was not the Son of GODS Covenant. His descendants have no Covenant with God.

But the promise of many nations and many descendants came only through Isaac the Son of Sarah and Abraham.
The Koran is not part of Abrahams covenant or Isaacs covenant and the Israelites. Being an Arab or an Ishmaelite plays no part in Gods covenant with Abraham, Isaac or Jacob.
It is not part of Gods plans in the Torah and has no part in the faith of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

The Messiah is the Son of God and he is raised from Isaac and Jacobs descendants. So we know the Disciples, Christ and the Prophets never taught the Messiah would be God incarnate
but that Jesus would come in the flesh and God would be with him and he himself would put his words into Christ's mouth.

This Jesus being God thing was a ploy employed by the RC to stop the Jews from recognising their Messiah and taking their rightful place.
Christ was the corner stone of the builders the Jews. But the Gentiles who believed what God said about him were grafted in. The truth is that even gentiles who are grafted in are now
realising that Jesus came in the flesh and God was with him as Peter and John taught.

But there is no place according to the Jewish religion for Islam or a god NOT Know to YHWH or a faith not created by him.

Being a descendant of Ishmael gives no precedence in the house of Israel where the descendance of Isaac and Jacob are the chosen line.

You believe what you believe. We all believe or disbelieve something. But according to the Jewish faith there is no covenant ever made which gives a separate belief or precedence over Isaac and God regarding the promises God made to Abraham and Sarah about Isaac. Ishmael was not born of Sarah. It has no precedence in accordance with Gods teachings.

We do not invent these things or decide them. It is simply what God himself has taught in the Torah and to the Jews. God himself declaring he is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Never ever did Ishmael become part of Gods plan and covenant for the descendants of Gods promise through Isaac son of Abraham and Sarah.


I think he made it plain about choice of the Son when Jacob and Esau were born.


23 And the Lord said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.



It isn't any reflection on any single belief system. When we talk about Judaism and the Messiah. There is none son chosen and it was Isaac and his descendants.
Jesus Christ, the Messiah will be and is of that line. This is Gods CHOICE not mans. It is what it is.

I apologize, but do you have a point?

Because it seems like you are making this about Islam and not even Ishmael who received a blessing from God and was circumcised into the Covenant.

The way you tell it it is as if you have vetoed the decree of God because you don't like Islam or Muslims and don't actually care about the thread topic or our side debate just asserting on your own personal authority that Ishmael has no right to worship his father's God.

Why, because he had a different mother who was a slave woman?

I don't know what to tell you take it up with God who blessed Ishmael and accepted him into the Covenant Himself, pbuh.

And blessed the Prophet Muhammad (saws) and Islam.

I don't think you will get far, God loves us.

 

[SethZaddik]

I almost forgot about this thread but I am glad I checked it so I could also check some fools.