If Jesus is God why doesn't the Bible say so?

[Skwim]

I believe one may ask how bronze can be copper and tin at the same time. After all copper tends to turn green and tin does not.

The question was "How can one be fully God and fully man? Bronze isn't fully copper or fully tin. Bronze is partially copper and partially tin, or any other copper alloying element other than zinc or nickle.

I believe in the Trinity not a trinitarian god.

Nice evasion of the question: "Do you think that they believed in a Trinitarian God?"

I believe this comes out of your own fantasies.

Actually, the trinity wasn't accepted as doctrine until the Council of Constantinople in 381 in what has come to called the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed.

.

 

[moorea944]

I believe one may ask how bronze can be copper and tin at the same time. After all copper tends to turn green and tin does not.

I believe I should and do since it makes sense.

I believe in the Trinity not a trinitarian god.

I believe the scripture supports the concept of the Trinity.

I believe this comes out of your own fantasies.

I believe one may ask how bronze can be copper and tin at the same time. After all copper tends to turn green and tin does not.

That's nice to know, but that has nothing to do with God and Jesus.

I believe I should and do since it makes sense.

The trinity makes sense? Since when...........

I believe in the Trinity not a trinitarian god.

What?

I believe the scripture supports the concept of the Trinity.

Scripture does not support the concept of the trinity at all. It was put in there by man, not by God. Example..... Deut 18v18-19. How do you get a trinity out of that one...

I believe this comes out of your own fantasies.

My own fantasies? lol I believe in scripture when it tells us that Jesus is the son of God and that God is the God and Father of Jesus.

 

[whirlingmerc]

I believe one may ask how bronze can be copper and tin at the same time. After all copper tends to turn green and tin does not.

I believe I should and do since it makes sense.

I believe in the Trinity not a trinitarian god.

I believe the scripture supports the concept of the Trinity.

I believe this comes out of your own fantasies.

Jesus has two natures in one person, this is known as the hyper static union
fully man fully God. In his human nature he is like us only without sin

But really in Isaiah every knee will bow to God and in the New Testament every knee will bow to Jesus So, in this and many other ways, the New Testament points to Jesus as Divine in some sense

 

[moorea944]

Jesus has two natures in one person, this is known as the hyper static union
fully man fully God. In his human nature he is like us only without sin

But really in Isaiah every knee will bow to God and in the New Testament every knee will bow to Jesus So, in this and many other ways, the New Testament points to Jesus as Divine in some sense

Jesus has two natures in one person, this is known as the hyper static union
fully man fully God.

A few problems with this. First of all, it is not scriptural. Jesus had only one nature when he was here. Of course now is different because he is immortal in heaven, so his nature has changed. He also tells us that we will be changed someday like him. Jesus never had two natures. Never fully God and fully man.

But really in Isaiah every knee will bow to God and in the New Testament every knee will bow to Jesus

That is true, every knee will bow to Christ. All so in Romans 14, it says that every tongue shall confess to God (or Elohim). It is not saying that Jesus is God. Jesus carries or bears the name of God. God always worked through His son in everything. 2 Cor 5 tells us that God used His son to reconcile the world back to him. So when everyone will bow to Jesus, they are also bowing to God which will be still in Heaven. We need to be careful on really understanding the terminology of scripture.

So, in this and many other ways, the New Testament points to Jesus as Divine in some sense

Well now he is immortal, where before he was like us. So he has changed, but still not God himself. In the bible, it says that God is the God and father of Jesus. That changes everything.

 

[whirlingmerc]

A few problems with this. First of all, it is not scriptural. Jesus had only one nature when he was here. Of course now is different because he is immortal in heaven, so his nature has changed. He also tells us that we will be changed someday like him. Jesus never had two natures. Never fully God and fully man.

That is true, every knee will bow to Christ. All so in Romans 14, it says that every tongue shall confess to God (or Elohim). It is not saying that Jesus is God. Jesus carries or bears the name of God. God always worked through His son in everything. 2 Cor 5 tells us that God used His son to reconcile the world back to him. So when everyone will bow to Jesus, they are also bowing to God which will be still in Heaven. We need to be careful on really understanding the terminology of scripture.

Well now he is immortal, where before he was like us. So he has changed, but still not God himself. In the bible, it says that God is the God and father of Jesus. That changes everything.

Sounds like you don't agree with the council of Chalcedon?

 

[moorea944]

Sounds like you don't agree with the council of Chalcedon?

Absolutely not! The council of man? I"ll take scripture over that anytime! How can someone be God and man at the same time? Never, does the bible tell us that. He is the son of God. But that doesn't make him God or co-equal. The Holy Spirit or God's power went into Mary and made her with child. He is also the son of man. Scripture also tells us that he is like us. Never... does the bible tell us that he is God.

 

[moorea944]

Sounds like you don't agree with the council of Chalcedon?

Absolutely not! The council of man? I"ll take scripture over that anytime! How can someone be God and man at the same time? Never, does the bible tell us that. He is the son of God. But that doesn't make him God or co-equal. The Holy Spirit or God's power went into Mary and made her with child. He is also the son of man. Scripture also tells us that he is like us. Never... does the bible tell us that he is God.

 

[Muffled]

That's nice to know, but that has nothing to do with God and Jesus.

The trinity makes sense? Since when...........

What?

Scripture does not support the concept of the trinity at all. It was put in there by man, not by God. Example..... Deut 18v18-19. How do you get a trinity out of that one...


My own fantasies? lol I believe in scripture when it tells us that Jesus is the son of God and that God is the God and Father of Jesus.

I believe that statement is a tribute to the fact that you are not able to read and comprehend.

I believe it has ever since reasonable people have studied the Bible.

I believe God is not a trinity in essence but is one in essence. The Trinity is the way God has presented Himself in order to bring about salvation. So He presents Himself as the Father a disembodied voice, The Son an embodied voice and the Paraclete as a possessing voice.

I believe you can keep saying that until the cows come home but the evidence is to the contrary.

I believe that statement is completely false and nothing more than fantasy.

I believe it is totally absurd to look for the Trinity in Deut. It is completely out of context.

I believe that isn't enough since you don't understand what that means and that is not the sum total of scripture. Do you think you can ignore scripture because it supports the Trinity and then say I believe in scripture. That is nothing but hypocrisy.

 

[Muffled]

The question was "How can one be fully God and fully man? Bronze isn't fully copper or fully tin. Bronze is partially copper and partially tin, or any other copper alloying element other than zinc or nickle.


Nice evasion of the question: "Do you think that they believed in a Trinitarian God?"


Actually, the trinity wasn't accepted as doctrine until the Council of Constantinople in 381 in what has come to called the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed.

.

To work the analogy the copper is 100% copper if it has no other metal in it and the same for the tin. The same is true of Jesus; the human part is 100% human (as far as we know) and the God part is 100% God (because God is one and can't be divided into parts). It is true the creed was not worded that way but I don't doubt that was the intent.

I don't believe I intentionally evade but the answer is that I believe they believed in the Trinity and not a Trinitarian God.

I believe it doesn't matter when the truth was accepted because even if they had all gotten it wrong back then the truth of the Trinity would be recognized at some time.

 

[Skwim]

To work the analogy the copper is 100% copper if it has no other metal in it and the same for the tin. The same is true of Jesus; the human part is 100% human (as far as we know) and the God part is 100% God (because God is one and can't be divided into parts).

moorea944's question was, "How can one be fully God and fully man? Mortal and immortal at the same time?

You answered, "I believe one may ask how bronze can be copper and tin at the same time."

To which I said, "The question was "How can one be fully God and fully man? Bronze isn't fully copper or fully tin. Bronze is partially copper and partially tin, or any other copper alloying element other than zinc or nickle.

And you now say, "To work the analogy the copper is 100% copper if it has no other metal in it and the same for the tin."

Sorry, but your ploy to change the analogy to suit your purposes, changing the metal from bronze to copper, doesn't fly.

.

 

[moorea944]

I believe that statement is a tribute to the fact that you are not able to read and comprehend.

I believe it has ever since reasonable people have studied the Bible.

I believe God is not a trinity in essence but is one in essence. The Trinity is the way God has presented Himself in order to bring about salvation. So He presents Himself as the Father a disembodied voice, The Son an embodied voice and the Paraclete as a possessing voice.

I believe you can keep saying that until the cows come home but the evidence is to the contrary.

I believe that statement is completely false and nothing more than fantasy.

I believe it is totally absurd to look for the Trinity in Deut. It is completely out of context.

I believe that isn't enough since you don't understand what that means and that is not the sum total of scripture. Do you think you can ignore scripture because it supports the Trinity and then say I believe in scripture. That is nothing but hypocrisy.

I believe that statement is a tribute to the fact that you are not able to read and comprehend.

Wow.....

I believe God is not a trinity in essence but is one in essence. The Trinity is the way God has presented Himself in order to bring about salvation. So He presents Himself as the Father a disembodied voice, The Son an embodied voice and the Paraclete as a possessing voice.

You mean something like God manifestation? God working through people or "in" people? That would be correct then. God is the father. He is not the son. Jesus is the son.

I believe that statement is completely false and nothing more than fantasy.

Which statement is that? I'll show you prove.

I believe it is totally absurd to look for the Trinity in Deut. It is completely out of context.

I completely agree!!! Since the trinity is man made, it wouldnt be found in the bible anyhow. Deut is all about God manifestation. God revealing Himself in someone. It's talking about the future. How God is going to raise up a prophet and God is going to work through him.

I believe that isn't enough since you don't understand what that means

I completely understand it.

Do you think you can ignore scripture because it supports the Trinity and then say I believe in scripture. That is nothing but hypocrisy.

Scripture does not support the trinity at all and no one is ignoring scripture. Why would you say that I am?

 

[Muffled]

moorea944's question was, "How can one be fully God and fully man? Mortal and immortal at the same time?

You answered, "I believe one may ask how bronze can be copper and tin at the same time."

To which I said, "The question was "How can one be fully God and fully man? Bronze isn't fully copper or fully tin. Bronze is partially copper and partially tin, or any other copper alloying element other than zinc or nickle.

And you now say, "To work the analogy the copper is 100% copper if it has no other metal in it and the same for the tin."

Sorry, but your ploy to change the analogy to suit your purposes, changing the metal from bronze to copper, doesn't fly.

.

I believe Bronze is identified by its copper and tin. Jesus is identified as human and God. Technically you are correct that Jesus is made of parts but what I believe the authors were getting at was the parts are 100% what they should be. Granted it does not prima facie explain what they mean.

 

[Muffled]

Wow.....


You mean something like God manifestation? God working through people or "in" people? That would be correct then. God is the father. He is not the son. Jesus is the son.


Which statement is that? I'll show you prove.

I completely agree!!! Since the trinity is man made, it wouldnt be found in the bible anyhow. Deut is all about God manifestation. God revealing Himself in someone. It's talking about the future. How God is going to raise up a prophet and God is going to work through him.

I see I have to explain this to you because RF does not include the question with the answer sometimes.
Q: How can one be fully God and fully man? Mortal and immortal at the same time?
A: I believe one may ask how bronze can be copper and tin at the same time. After all copper tends to turn green and tin does not.
That is how my answer related to the question and I will admit that you may not have had an opportunity to see that so it isn't a matter of reading comprehension.

I believe it could be characterized as a manifestation. However manifestation is a more comprehensive term. God speaking to Abraham was a manifestation but it is not an incarnation nor a possession. The Trinity splits the manifestations into three types 1: the Father is outside manifestation in communication with men (as with Abraham), the Son is an incarnation manifestation and the Paraclete is a possession manifestation.

I believe that is a non-sequitur. Your conclusion does not follow from any premise that I can see.

"the trinity at all. It was put in there by man, not by God" I believe you can prove the Bible has human authors but that you will not be able to prove the null hypothesis that they were not inspired by God.

I believe you are in error because Deut. is not the whole Bible.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

I've only just read the last page, the Trinity debate huh? Look up Docetism, Appollinarianism, Subordinationism, Monophysitism, Arianism, Eutychiansim, Monothelitism, etc., etc. This thing has been debated for centuries, but good luck! Don't think I've anything else to add!

 

[moorea944]

I see I have to explain this to you because RF does not include the question with the answer sometimes.
Q: How can one be fully God and fully man? Mortal and immortal at the same time?
A: I believe one may ask how bronze can be copper and tin at the same time. After all copper tends to turn green and tin does not.
That is how my answer related to the question and I will admit that you may not have had an opportunity to see that so it isn't a matter of reading comprehension.

I believe it could be characterized as a manifestation. However manifestation is a more comprehensive term. God speaking to Abraham was a manifestation but it is not an incarnation nor a possession. The Trinity splits the manifestations into three types 1: the Father is outside manifestation in communication with men (as with Abraham), the Son is an incarnation manifestation and the Paraclete is a possession manifestation.

I believe that is a non-sequitur. Your conclusion does not follow from any premise that I can see.

"the trinity at all. It was put in there by man, not by God" I believe you can prove the Bible has human authors but that you will not be able to prove the null hypothesis that they were not inspired by God.

I believe you are in error because Deut. is not the whole Bible.

I see I have to explain this to you because RF does not include the question with the answer sometimes.
Q: How can one be fully God and fully man? Mortal and immortal at the same time?
A: I believe one may ask how bronze can be copper and tin at the same time. After all copper tends to turn green and tin does not.

Your kidding me!!..... Your comparing God with metal? Wow.........

Plus, mortal and immortal at the same time? That really makes sense to you?

I believe it could be characterized as a manifestation. However manifestation is a more comprehensive term. God speaking to Abraham was a manifestation but it is not an incarnation nor a possession. The Trinity splits the manifestations into three types 1: the Father is outside manifestation in communication with men (as with Abraham), the Son is an incarnation manifestation and the Paraclete is a possession manifestation.

Incarnation? Where are you getting these words from? lol With all of the words in the bible, why do you feel that you have to "bring in" words to fit your beliefs. I'm not understanding that!

I believe that is a non-sequitur. Your conclusion does not follow from any premise that I can see.

Actually it does. First of all, I dont bring in words to fit my faith, like carnation, God the son, God the HS. Nothing like that at all. Jesus is the son of God. Scripture tells us that he was like us in every way.

I believe you can prove the Bible has human authors but that you will not be able to prove the null hypothesis that they were not inspired by God.

So are you saying that the bible translation errors came from God? Not quite sure what your saying here.....

I believe you are in error because Deut. is not the whole Bible.

I never said or think it's the whole bible. But it's just one part of many that debunks the trinity and show's us on how God works through people, esp His son.

 

[Muffled]

I've only just read the last page, the Trinity debate huh? Look up Docetism, Appollinarianism, Subordinationism, Monophysitism, Arianism, Eutychiansim, Monothelitism, etc., etc. This thing has been debated for centuries, but good luck! Don't think I've anything else to add!

I believe you left out Sibellius. He said the Ttrinity was like a person playing multiple characters in a play. The metaphor only partially works because it isn't a physical human playing different parts but The Spirit of God being incarnated as different beings. I suppose we could think of our bodies as different costumes. Our spirits may indeed have been many different characters in many times and places.

 

[Muffled]

Your kidding me!!..... Your comparing God with metal? Wow.........

Plus, mortal and immortal at the same time? That really makes sense to you?



Incarnation? Where are you getting these words from? lol With all of the words in the bible, why do you feel that you have to "bring in" words to fit your beliefs. I'm not understanding that!



Actually it does. First of all, I dont bring in words to fit my faith, like carnation, God the son, God the HS. Nothing like that at all. Jesus is the son of God. Scripture tells us that he was like us in every way.



So are you saying that the bible translation errors came from God? Not quite sure what your saying here.....



I never said or think it's the whole bible. But it's just one part of many that debunks the trinity and show's us on how God works through people, esp His son.

I believe I am quite serious but I think you missed the point.

Of course I believe it makes sense. Anything else is nonsense.

I believe I don't see any problem with using words that describe a concept. Perhaps you like "living soul" better because that is in the Bible.

I believe you have completely ignored the rules of logic. Do you even know why it is a non-sequitur? It is because you can't get from the premise to the conclusion. There is no logic taking place to get you there.

I believe there is scriptural evidence to support those words. The Biblical statement that Jesus is the Son of God does not exclude the concept of Jesus being God in the flesh and in fact supports it.

I am saying that there are no translation errors on this subject. I am saying what is not a translation error is inspired by God.

I do not believe you have proven that Deut. debunks the Trinity. I don't believe there are any Biblical passages that do so. What I was saying is that Deut. is only part of the Bible and there are plenty of verses that support the Trinity in the NT and some that do in the OT.

 

[moorea944]

I believe I am quite serious but I think you missed the point.

Of course I believe it makes sense. Anything else is nonsense.

I believe I don't see any problem with using words that describe a concept. Perhaps you like "living soul" better because that is in the Bible.

I believe you have completely ignored the rules of logic. Do you even know why it is a non-sequitur? It is because you can't get from the premise to the conclusion. There is no logic taking place to get you there.

I believe there is scriptural evidence to support those words. The Biblical statement that Jesus is the Son of God does not exclude the concept of Jesus being God in the flesh and in fact supports it.

I am saying that there are no translation errors on this subject. I am saying what is not a translation error is inspired by God.

I do not believe you have proven that Deut. debunks the Trinity. I don't believe there are any Biblical passages that do so. What I was saying is that Deut. is only part of the Bible and there are plenty of verses that support the Trinity in the NT and some that do in the OT.

I believe I am quite serious but I think you missed the point.

Which point is that?

Of course I believe it makes sense. Anything else is nonsense.

Being man and God at the same time? Being immortal and mortal at the same time makes sense to you?

I believe I don't see any problem with using words that describe a concept. Perhaps you like "living soul" better because that is in the Bible.

The bible's "soul" and your "soul" are different. Plus, "living soul" IS in the bible. A living soul is just a person who is alive and breathing. Nowhere in scripture does it tell us that we are given something like a "soul". We are a soul.

I believe you have completely ignored the rules of logic. Do you even know why it is a non-sequitur? It is because you can't get from the premise to the conclusion. There is no logic taking place to get you there.

lol Man's logic or God's logic........

I believe there is scriptural evidence to support those words. The Biblical statement that Jesus is the Son of God does not exclude the concept of Jesus being God in the flesh and in fact supports it.

Scripture tells us that he is not God, but the "image" of God. He is God manifest in the flesh. He was also made like us in everyway. He had our nature. He was "made" perfect later in his life. If Jesus was God or a God, then why does God have to work through his son and help him throughout his life?

I do not believe you have proven that Deut. debunks the Trinity.

Sure it did. That is just one of many. You believe that Jesus is God and is co-equal with God (which doesnt make sense at all), and has pre-existed (which doesnt make sense at all). Just these two verses tell us different. Scripture tells us that God, his Father and God, worked through Jesus all his life. Why? If he was a God, he shouldnt need any help. Even Peter says that in Acts 2, that all those mircles were God's miracles and that God was working through his son.

Jesus was "given" everything from the father. Why would that happen if Jesus was God or a God........

I don't believe there are any Biblical passages that do so.

That's because you believe in God the son........ and not the son of God.

What I was saying is that Deut. is only part of the Bible

I completely agree with you.

and there are plenty of verses that support the Trinity in the NT and some that do in the OT.

There are no verses in scripture that support the trinity. Can you give me just one?

 

[Brad Watson_Miami]

Often it is taken for granted that Jesus is God.

Jesus son of Joseph was God-incarnate. His eternal soul has been reincarnated many, many times throughout the 4.567 billion year history of Earth.

I am going to post the verses used to "prove" Jesus is God...

Not "is" - was. God-incarnate died sometime in the 40 years after he was crucified on Friday April 7, 30 AD, but he didn't die that day. The Messiah/Christ may have lived another 40 years before dying and being buried in the Jesus Family Tomb in East Talpiot.

Jesus was created BY the Word of God (virgin birth)

Wrong. The virgin birth story is a myth. "Jesus son of Joseph" - John 1:45.

John 8:58, "Truly I tell you, before Abraham was, I AM."

This is an example of Jesus referring to reincarnation. He was Moses reincarnated.

Mary Magdalen was his wife.

YHWH = Yehowah, but there's One GOD and GOD's name and title is GOD.

Jesus son of Joseph was God-incarnate.

 

[Hawkins]

If Jesus is not God, He can directly say so. It is a very easy task to clean up any later confusion. Jesus didn't say directly He's God because the Jews will kill Him before He can accomplish His work on earth. Plus that the true identity of Jesus is God the Son. So that son of God is already the most accurate identity He can present without His works being affected.