I just want to love you, but sometimes it is hard to do....

[Audie]

Working on being able to spiritually love every human being no matter faith or no faith. It has been an issue for me that I struggle to even like atheists, again my fault not atheists fault

"Spiritually love" accomplishes what?
What is it supposed to be, what does it do?

 

[Audie]

Point taken

There was more than one point and
"Taken" has no known meaning.

 

[Spirit of Light]

"Spiritually love" accomplishes what?
What is it supposed to be, what does it do?

Opens the heart to not have hate toward anyone.

 

[Spirit of Light]

There was more than one point and
"Taken" has no known meaning.

I can answer longer later today, i am a bit busy at the moment

 

[Audie]

Opens the heart to not have hate toward anyone.

Love and hate are not the only feelings out there.
So if I understand it right, "spiritual
love" just means being open to the
possibility of loving someone.

I am very sparing with my love, and I
I don't bother with hate, though
I've resson for hate that few people have
the misfortune to match.

I dont see anything spiritual in it,
needful of a "master" though.

I don't get what you are trying to accomplish.

 

[sun rise]

It is not that a Sufi take any belief and make it their “own” it is in my understanding more about being there for others, that they are free to have their God/Buddha without being told they are wrong. Telling other`s they are wrong is not a Sufi way of life.

He forgot atheists.

Ciao

- viole

That was a quote I shared from Hazrat Inayat Khan who brought sufism to the West, notably the Chisti school. The Chisti school did not focus on religion, specifically Islam.

It covers religion but much more, not only refraining from judging others but realizing how different what people consider good and bad are including how those distinctions play out in life. For example he notes that a soldier believes that killing for country is good whereas a pacifist thinks it's bad.

Anyone who reads my posts here knows how far I am from my ideal but this is my goal:

"The Sufi, instead of becoming centered in his likes and dislikes and limiting himself to a certain faith or belief, reasoning out right and wrong, focuses his view on that of another, and thus sees the reason why he believes and why he does not, why something is right to one and wrong to another. He also understands why that which is called good by some people may be called bad by others, and thus by keeping his point of view under control he arrives at the true height of wisdom."

 

[Orbit]

You know, after reading your post, i realized something. Non believers who read example my posts will often be in the situation you describe. They see i am a Muslim and they will attack my belief. But if they could meet only friendliness back from me, i believe they would see that not all muslims are evil killing machines
There is no need to "defend" my belief, if they do not like it, that is ok, they are free to think what they want

I have responded to many of your posts, and am a non-believer. Are you sure you're not over-generalizing based one or two bad experiences? I haven't noticed anyone going after you on RF, but maybe I missed it.

 

[sun rise]

Love and hate are not the only feelings out there.
So if I understand it right, "spiritual
love" just means being open to the
possibility of loving someone.

I am very sparing with my love, and I
I don't bother with hate, though
I've resson for hate that few people have
the misfortune to match.

I dont see anything spiritual in it,
needful of a "master" though.

I don't get what you are trying to accomplish.

"Spiritual love" is more than that. It's loving everyone and everything as the sun shines

But even Jesus His Pre-Eminence said there are wheats and tares. Another example is it was written in the Christian bible:

2 I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob,

3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Are you now more compassionate than the GOD? I understand why you say that, and I do not seek to discourage you from it, but rather to see it as it was written, to understand that there are the enemies of the mankind race, and they are wearing the same body as you. So be mindful if you are going about it that way.

We're not required to accept the Christian Bible as ultimate truth. But if I look at the Bible for an analogy, we focus on the sun and the rain (makest his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust)

 

[sun rise]

It is an interesting remark @viole makes here
So, that means that the Sufi "is like an Atheist" when he "is amongst Atheists"

"Amongst women I am a woman, amongst children I am a child, amongst Atheists I am an Atheist". Most importantly to "be the best one you can". So, don't speak to an Atheist or Humanist about God, but still we all share similar high values and Love, and IMO, that is what counts for all 3.

What one believes in, atheism or theism, is a belief, not proven yet. But how one treats the other is reality.

To me an atheist is a person who cares about truth and won't accept what someone else says especially when accompanies by a pat on the head. Further, secular humanists care about justice and related ideals.

Sufis recognize that love of truth and can join it from their own love of truth.

 

[sun rise]

"Spiritually love" accomplishes what?
What is it supposed to be, what does it do?

Among other things it means to see everyone as part of a whole. That does or should lead to helping those who are on the bottom of society, the homeless, the refugee, the terrorized, the object of racism or attacks based on religion.

What I'm thinking of is the knowledge that they are not separate from me. Specific policies etc are a different discussion.

 

[Yahcubs777]

"Spiritual love" is more than that. It's loving everyone and everything as the sun shines


We're not required to accept the Christian Bible as ultimate truth. But if I look at the Bible for an analogy, we focus on the sun and the rain (makest his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust)

That's not what you think it is. But I understand your position regarding the Bible.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I have responded to many of your posts, and am a non-believer. Are you sure you're not over-generalizing based one or two bad experiences? I haven't noticed anyone going after you on RF, but maybe I missed it.

In the past, yes i overreacted mostly all the time. It was often because i have been very unsure about my self all my life, and had s big trust issue especially when "put toward the wall" of course that negative reaction i often gave was only my fault.

But after i started study sufism, this feeling of being "attacked" was become less and less. Unfortunatly yesterday or the day before, i was a bit og a moment of anger toward a member in RF. And it out all my effort of becomming less attached to what people say about me or my belief.
I know people Said i need a thicker skin. And they are correct.

I know also people think i come across as someone who believe i know it all. I am er far from that. Actually i know very little. But have a strong faith in what i believe to be truth.

Sometimes when the debate go out of "control" for my comfort. Yes i feel attacked, and it was been especially from 2 or 3 members. They do not stop asking Even i only day what i believe in. And yes that has been really anoying at times. Because no matter what i say it feels like their answer is.

No, no no you are wrong, you dont understand, you lying, er know your religious belief better than your self. Stop speaking. This is how it feels to me, not that it is what they actually mean by their words. So i do no longer accusing them of things.

All i want is to believe what i do. Discuss without flinging ****.

And last night i realized what was needed to be done. But it will take time.
Sufism is a prosess of cleansing once self to become pure. That is all i want to try to do.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Love and hate are not the only feelings out there.

I don't get what you are trying to accomplish.

I believe you when you say you do not get what i trying to do. You are not a long in not understanding me pr what i believe in.

 

[Audie]

I believe you when you say you do not get what i trying to do. You are not a long in not understanding me pr what i believe in.

If you could explain it I could understand it.
If you can't xplain it then you don't understand it either.

 

[Spirit of Light]

If you could explain it I could understand it.
If you can't xplain it then you don't understand it either.

Explaining personal experiences is not easy, and maybe Even more difficult to someone who do not believe in the spiritual realm or a God
But from now on i try to become more clear in what i speak about.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Christian missionaries also love. Their love extends to evengelization.
Sufis are Muslims. All sweet talk. The purpose is the same.
We in India have had experience of both, and therefore, are wary of both.
Read Surah al-Kafirun. We are happy with what we believe.
We do not like love to interfere in what we variously believe.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Love, like trust is earned. Not givin.

 

[Audie]

Explaining personal experiences is not easy, and maybe Even more difficult to someone who do not believe in the spiritual realm or a God
But from now on i try to become more clear in what i speak about.

What you are trying to do is just a personal
expetience in the " spiritual realm".

So it's all in your head and has no effect on
people out there who you "love". Ok.

 

[Spirit of Light]

What you are trying to do is just a personal
expetience in the " spiritual realm".

So it's all in your head and has no effect on
people out there who you "love". Ok.

You are welcome to believe so

 

[stvdv]

What does it accomplish to talk yourself
into thinking you love some monster?

I was not talking myself into thinking I love some monster
I referred to the ultimate test as shown in the Bible; when someone kills you
Being able to say like Jesus said "forgive them Father, for they do not know what they do"

Meaning, to be able to see beyond the actions of that person, and being totally unaffected, detached
I am just realistic. I know I am not that far. I met a yogi, who could transent pain; had 13 broken bones in car accident; he did not feel pain

So, I know this is possible, but I am not there yet, and seeing the speed of my improvement, I don't see that happen anytime soon