I just want to love you, but sometimes it is hard to do....

[Yahcubs777]

Thanks for the response.

You are welcome.

 

[Yahcubs777]

That is my focus every day. Where ever i travel i find love in human beings

I understand.

 

[stvdv]

If you have a belief in a certain God, you will have a teaching or at least a form of philosophy you follow or believe in. So you believe in a God, than you meet someone who believe in a different God, as soon you hear this you become a “fighter” My God is better than your God…..is it?

I agree with @Conscious thoughts . Indeed IMO that is not true. Useful lesson with lots of potential . I am not the only one who needed to solve this one

I also observed:
When one follows a Path that has many followers who judge others' (non)Faith, then naturally they ooze this judgmental feeling. But the moment you follow a Path, that clearly states "Thou shall not judge", or how the Sufis phrase it, then naturally this judgmental feeling vaporizes, people start writing and replying totally different.

IF your Master teaches you not to judge, obviously you learn this lesson much quicker, although some try to twist the words in meaning something else, hence I think that judging is a human trait, that the ego is not willing to give up easily. And of course this God-concept is not easy, hence easily to get confused on the way, with this seemingly contradiction

 

[stvdv]

So, would you also love a person who has the mark of the beast? A witch? Wizard? Occultist? A person who just killed someone you love? It is easy to say you love a person because that is supposed to be the result of your faiths, but its just lip service.

I got the impression that @Conscious thoughts was talking in his OP about "respecting other's (non)faith/beliefs/feelings". Baby steps first. If your mind is pure and non judgmental then your words and actions can easily follow (with some hard work of course). Love a killer is a giant step

This is the outcome of a belief system with no tangible evidence; no substance to which you can point to and explain in full details what it is; faith, which is the opposite of knowledge.

"To criticize or not to criticize" the other's faith/mind/feelings you could only know IF you are Omniscient, was IMO what this thread was about

 

[stvdv]

Okay, didn't really adress what I posted but sure. I still stress that you be mindful of the people that are in your midst.

I agree completely. That is very true and very important.

 

[stvdv]

A person who just killed someone you love? It is easy to say you love a person because that is supposed to be the result of your faiths, but its just lip service.

I agree with this. That is the ultimate test almost. I am not ready for that one, yet. Still lots of work to do for me.

 

[stvdv]

The other day someone shared a Sufi saying that as a Sufi you are a Muslim when you speak with Muslims, a Christian when you speak with Christians, a Jew when you speak with Jews, a Hindu when you speak with Hindus, and so on.

He forgot atheists.

No i did not forget atheists. If you see after different religious beliefs are mention it say: "And so on" in the and so on is atheism.

It is an interesting remark @viole makes here
So, that means that the Sufi "is like an Atheist" when he "is amongst Atheists"

"Amongst women I am a woman, amongst children I am a child, amongst Atheists I am an Atheist". Most importantly to "be the best one you can". So, don't speak to an Atheist or Humanist about God, but still we all share similar high values and Love, and IMO, that is what counts for all 3.

What one believes in, atheism or theism, is a belief, not proven yet. But how one treats the other is reality.

 

[stvdv]

Then some times you meet people who want to push you down, to crush your belief and tell you how foolish you are to believe in a God “because Gods does not exists”……. I get that some believe so. I get that they do not see any evidence of God, so they cannot believe in it. But shall a believer just sit there and get pushed down day by day because someone tell them God is unreal, non-existing or evil?

Good point

The other day someone shared a Sufi saying that as a Sufi you are a Muslim when you speak with Muslims, a Christian when you speak with Christians, a Jew when you speak with Jews, a Hindu when you speak with Hindus, and so on.

Sufi is full of wisdom and gives the answer to the above question raised, here
Great Wisdom, thanks for sharing. My Master said the same, but I needed to read it once more

Sufi is a Muslim when with Muslims (hence never disagreements)
Sufi is a Christian when with Christians (hence never disagreements; BUT be of the same denomination is paramount here)
Sufi is a Jew when with Jews (hence never disagreements)
Sufi is a Hindu when with Hindus (hence never disagreements)

Sufi is a Atheist when with Atheists (hence never disagreements)

Sufi is a Chameleon when with Chameleons (Chameleon get a day off )


I love Sufism; this is what I also usually do; I must have been a Sufi in previous life

 

[Spirit of Light]

It is an interesting remark @viole makes here
So, that means that the Sufi "is like an Atheist" when he "is amongst Atheists"

"Amongst women I am a woman, amongst children I am a child, amongst Atheists I am an Atheist". Most importantly to "be the best one you can". So, don't speak to an Atheist or Humanist about God, but still we all share similar high values and Love, and IMO, that is what counts for all 3.

What one believes in, atheism or theism, is a belief, not proven yet. But how one treats the other is reality.

I do agree with you here
In the past i made the mistake that i always said " I AM NOT" and i said what i thought i was not.Today i speak of Sufism, but i know as soon as i say "I am a Sufi" i am not a sufi, because even we follow the teaching called Sufism, what it actually happening is that we seek the truth that arise from within our own being, and the path is to undo all the wrongs we do, say or think. To purify our heart so that what we become is one who only love.
All the attachments to like or dislike, hate or no hate, greed or no greed and so on, will be converted to pure love for the God we follow and believe in (that said, what i believe is not what you have to belive)

Each person must find their own inner truth, no matter if you call it love, God, or just common sense in this physical world. and to be able to walk among all groups of people, one must adapt to the situation, and understand each person you speak with, without telling them your own love for God (if they do not ask)

 

[Spirit of Light]

Good point


Sufi is full of wisdom and gives the answer to the above question raised, here
Great Wisdom, thanks for sharing. My Master said the same, but I needed to read it once more

Sufi is a Muslim when with Muslims (hence never disagreements)
Sufi is a Christian when with Christians (hence never disagreements; BUT be of the same denomination is paramount here)
Sufi is a Jew when with Jews (hence never disagreements)
Sufi is a Hindu when with Hindus (hence never disagreements)

Sufi is a Atheist when with Atheists (hence never disagreements)

Sufi is a Chameleon when with Chameleons (Chameleon get a day off )


I love Sufism; this is what I also usually do; I must have been a Sufi in previous life

is there a hidden sufi within you

 

[stvdv]

is there a hidden sufi within you

Not hidden it seems. I did not see your reply before, because I was updating my post, and we both had the same thought it seems

I think I was Sufi in previous life; must be. I have always been like Sufi, as described here
Only when young there was a lot of pleasing involved, now that I worked on my issues, that part is gone
And now I can continue the way I did before, only this time it's all from the heart

When I came to see Sathya Sai Baba first time, and I saw the picture of Shirdi Sai Baba, I fell in love with Him at once. And I was very sad that there was only Sathya Sai Baba and not Shirdi Sai Baba anymore.

Shirdi Sai Baba was a well known Sufi. Some of these Sufis become so much involved in their temporary role, that they even change appearance
Once I got an interview with Sathya Sai Baba, I should not have been there, because my Indian visa expired, but I felt our group would get an interview, and I did not want to miss out on that (which made me really sweat, as I am always trying to follow the rules; and scared to overstay in other countries). But my feeling was correct, and Sai Baba asked us to come in for interview.

Casually he remarked looking at me "You are still here, not travelling?". This happened to be on the "birthday" of Shirdi Baba, and oh my God, it was as if I was with Shirdi Baba, kicking and screaming, exactly as I read in Satcharitra. I was so glad I overstayed my visum. Was a great experience.

And Sai Baba did take could care of me, when next day I rushed to the border, they did not want to let me out, due to overstaying visa. But I told them "I read in your book of law, that 3 days is allowed to overstay" (I hate law books, but accidentally I read this somewhere). He went inside to discuss with his boss, and came out 1 hour later or so (to make me sweat probably), and said "okay, this time we let you go, do not do it ever again".

 

[Spirit of Light]

Not hidden it seems. I did not see your reply before, because I was updating my post, and we both had the same thought it seems

I think I was Sufi in previous life; must be. I have always been like Sufi, as described here
Only when young there was a lot of pleasing involved, now that I worked on my issues, that part is gone
And now I can continue the way I did before, only this time it's all from the heart

When I came to see Sathya Sai Baba first time, and I saw the picture of Shirdi Sai Baba, I fell in love with Him at once. And I was very sad that there was only Sathya Sai Baba and not Shirdi Sai Baba anymore.

Shirdi Sai Baba was a well known Sufi. Some of these Sufis become so much involved in their temporary role, that they even change appearance
Once I got an interview with Sathya Sai Baba, I should not have been there, because my Indian visa expired, but I felt our group would get an interview, and I did not want to miss out on that (which made me really sweat, as I am always trying to follow the rules; and scared to overstay in other countries). But my feeling was correct, and Sai Baba asked us to come in for interview.

Casually he remarked looking at me "You are still here, not travelling?". This happened to be on the "birthday" of Shirdi Baba, and oh my God, it was as if I was with Shirdi Baba, kicking and screaming, exactly as I read in Satcharitra. I was so glad I overstayed my visum. Was a great experience.

And Sai Baba did take could care of me, when next day I rushed to the border, they did not want to let me out, due to overstaying visa. But I told them "I read in your book of law, that 3 days is allowed to overstay" (I hate law books, but accidentally I read this somewhere). He went inside to discuss with his boss, and came out 1 hour later or so (to make me sweat probably), and said "okay, this time we let you go, do not do it ever again".

I am smiling with joy when i read your posting today

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Then some times you meet people who want to push you down, to crush your belief and tell you how foolish you are to believe in a God “because Gods does not exists”……. I get that some believe so. I get that they do not see any evidence of God, so they cannot believe in it. But shall a believer just sit there and get pushed down day by day because someone tell them God is unreal, non-existing or evil?

I'd ask you to consider why you have these kinds of confrontations so often, and why they bother you so much.

You and I have had several interactions about your religious opinions like this one, but only after you make some pronouncement like the one above that opens the door to such discussion. I have no reason to discuss your beliefs much less know what they are unless you state them. You like to put yourself out there, on discussion venues like this one no less, which invites dissent, but are hurt when your ideas are challenged.

Why is that? I know that you disagree with me as much as I do with you, but I can't imagine being personally offended by such opinions. Why do the opinions of others bother you so much that start thread after thread lamenting these experiences?

I just went through this on Facebook, where a woman publicly posts a religious opinion, receives polite rebuttals, and has an emotional response of anger and resentment dressed in the language of persecution and intolerance that makes no effort to address the rebuttal. The rules for these people are that you don't question their beliefs unless you want an emotional response that ignores your good faith argument.

You don't want to be that person. You don't want to be seen as somebody that can't take constructive criticism, as this comment is intended to be. See it as an effort to help you rather than an attack, which is how you tend to view such responses.

if i am allowed to speak about my belief to others, so should they be toward me too in their belief.

Yes, and without you becoming offended or having an emotional response.

Why should we not go our own ways like two strangers by-passing each other on a road? "I love you, you do not love me" - why should that be necessary? Most of the time it is fake, a precursor to interference. That is how evangelists start.

I agree. This talk about loving everybody waters down the concept.

Is it not enough that I am friendly to you, mean you no harm, and maybe lend you a helping hand if needed? I can't do better for strangers than that, nor see any reason to try to or want to. That's all I did for the fellow above - a friendly message intended as helpful, constructive criticism. If that isn't what is meant by love in this context - and I wouldn't use the word love to describe that response - then too much is expected.

 

[Audie]

I agree with this. That is the ultimate test almost. I am not ready for that one, yet. Still lots of work to do for me.

What does it accomplish to talk yourself
into thinking you love some monster?

 

[Audie]

The other day someone shared a Sufi saying that as a Sufi you are a Muslim when you speak with Muslims, a Christian when you speak with Christians, a Jew when you speak with Jews, a Hindu when you speak with Hindus, and so on.

Even I had heard this saying before it had not yet formed within me. And there is probably different answers to this.

It is not that a Sufi take any belief and make it their “own” it is in my understanding more about being there for others, that they are free to have their God/Buddha without being told they are wrong. Telling other`s they are wrong is not a Sufi way of life.

We learn every day, not just about what others believe or think, but about our own being, our own understanding and belief. Life is not about getting “Your” truth out to others, life is about finding the truth within you, and in my understanding, this is what any religion is about. Awakening from within, and it is done by listening to God/Buddha and doing what you are asked to do. Rejecting it and say, no I am better than that, so I don’t care what God say, that is in a way a form of selfishness.

If you have a belief in a certain God, you will have a teaching or at least a form of philosophy you follow or believe in. So you believe in a God, than you meet someone who believe in a different God, as soon you hear this you become a “fighter” My God is better than your God…..is it?

Why can we not be happy for others when it comes to belief? You want others to be happy for you and say, it is so good to hear you found your faith, just hearing this make us feel loved and seen, are we not going to do that to others, when we “expect” to hear it our self?

Then some times you meet people who want to push you down, to crush your belief and tell you how foolish you are to believe in a God “because Gods does not exists”……. I get that some believe so. I get that they do not see any evidence of God, so they cannot believe in it. But shall a believer just sit there and get pushed down day by day because someone tell them God is unreal, non-existing or evil?

I tried to argue with them, it is of no use, the only thing that happens is that I get a bad feeling and thinking that why do I even bother…..Than if I have become irritated and said things I should not. It nags me for the rest of the day, Not that I “lost” the discussion. But that I said words or had thoughts that is of no use, I was not able to love them as it is possible to love a fellow human being who holds a different religious belief.

So every day is a day where a test comes up, and every day it is to find the answer to how did it happen that I was not able to do what the God I believe and love so much, why do I let my own ego get in the way.

Be a fellow human being and love them for who they are, no matter what they believe in. You don’t have to agree with them, but respect goes a long way.

"Love" is such a flexible word. One can love
that doggie in the window or that little black dress.

We don't even have a comparable word in Cninese.

I know my feelings toward mom or my
girlfriend. Mom is gone now, but I would have
stepped in front of a bus for her.

A feeling that does not translate into any action
seems phony to me, meaningless.

There are, have been beggars who can count on me for a good donation, a smile and maybe food, a Starbucks. Do I "love" them?
Of course not.

What do you mean by " love"?

 

[Spirit of Light]

I'd ask you to consider why you have these kinds of confrontations so often, and why they bother you so much.

You and I have had several interactions about your religious opinions like this one, but only after you make some pronouncement like the one above that opens the door to such discussion. I have no reason to discuss your beliefs much less know what they are unless you state them. You like to put yourself out there, on discussion venues like this one no less, which invites dissent, but are hurt when your ideas are challenged.

Why is that? I know that you disagree with me as much as I do with you, but I can't imagine being personally offended by such opinions. Why do the opinions of others bother you so much that start thread after thread lamenting these experiences?

I just went through this on Facebook, where a woman publicly posts a religious opinion, receives polite rebuttals, and has an emotional response of anger and resentment dressed in the language of persecution and intolerance that makes no effort to address the rebuttal. The rules for these people are that you don't question their beliefs unless you want an emotional response that ignores your good faith argument.

You don't want to be that person. You don't want to be seen as somebody that can't take constructive criticism, as this comment is intended to be. See it as an effort to help you rather than an attack, which is how you tend to view such responses.



Yes, and without you becoming offended or having an emotional response.



I agree. This talk about loving everybody waters down the concept.

Is it not enough that I am friendly to you, mean you no harm, and maybe lend you a helping hand if needed? I can't do better for strangers than that, nor see any reason to try to or want to. That's all I did for the fellow above - a friendly message intended as helpful, constructive criticism. If that isn't what is meant by love in this context - and I wouldn't use the word love to describe that response - then too much is expected.

Thank you for asking
I am working on the frustration issue, it has been an attachment for me. But i realized i was the one reacting wrong.

 

[Spirit of Light]

"Love" is such a flexible word. One can love
that doggie in the window or that little black dress.

We don't even have a comparable word in Cninese.

I know my feelings toward mom or my
girlfriend. Mom is gone now, but I would have
stepped in front of a bus for her.

A feeling that does not translate into any action
seems phony to me, meaningless.

There are, have been beggars who can count on me for a good donation, a smile and maybe food, a Starbucks. Do I "love" them?
Of course not.

What do you mean by " love"?

Working on being able to spiritually love every human being no matter faith or no faith. It has been an issue for me that I struggle to even like atheists, again my fault not atheists fault

 

[Aupmanyav]

In my kind of 'Advaita' Hinduism, we divide things in two groups - the perceived (what we encounter in the world) and the absolute (the reality). In the perceived world there is love as well as conflict, whatever is suited to the occasion. In the absolute reality, there is no love and also no conflict. Everything that exists is constituted by the same entity / thing / physical energy / atoms. There is not an iota of difference between me or any other person or the sand on a sea-beach. The first we call 'Vyavaharika' (pragmatic world), the second as 'Paramarthika' (Absolute Reality).
The view does not require a God or his worship, or prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations / mahdis sent by any God or Allah. So simple, also in line with science. All flab removed with Occam's Razor.

 

[Audie]

I mean, if i am allowed to speak about my belief to others, so should they be toward me too in their belief. no need to critique, we may learn something from any person we meet i life.

I suppose I rank at the top of those here you
characterize as wanting to tear you down.

That is awfully egotistical of you.
You don't have the capacity to take on
such importance.

This is a debate forum.
Any criticism I offer is related to seeing
things differently.
If you only want agreement with how terrif
your ideas are, a mirror is what you need.

Everyone can use others' views as a kind
if outrigger, keep them stable in the water.

Hermits go crazy. People who isolate
themselves from others' ideas get prrtty weird.

Any thoughts I offer about your ideas are
constructive criticism however it may be
perceived and for whatever reasons besides that I don't tend to me nicey nice.

Assuming that comments are intended to
tear you down is a complete mismatch for
your stated goal of "loving" everyone.

Now, I don't want your love, and don't accept it
in any form offered.

But I am making a suggestion regarding a
total fail on your part, of which you seem
totally unaware...a far more "loving" action,
IMO, than is yours, of assuming base and ignoble intent anytime someone fails to
agree with your pronouncements.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I suppose I rank at the top of those here you
characterize as wanting to tear you down.

That is awfully egotistical of you.
You don't have the capacity to take on
such importance.

This is a debate forum.
Any criticism I offer is related to seeing
things differently.
If you only want agreement with how terrif
your ideas are, a mirror is what you need.

Everyone can use others' views as a kind
if outrigger, keep them stable in the water.

Hermits go crazy. People who isolate
themselves from others' ideas get prrtty weird.

Any thoughts I offer about your ideas are
constructive criticism however it may be
perceived and for whatever reasons besides that I don't tend to me nicey nice.

Assuming that comments are intended to
tear you down is a complete mismatch for
your stated goal of "loving" everyone.

Now, I don't want your love, and don't accept it
in any form offered.

But I am making a suggestion regarding a
total fail on your part, of which you seem
totally unaware...a far more "loving" action,
IMO, than is yours, of assuming base and ignoble intent anytime someone fails to
agree with your pronouncements.

Point taken