I have changed my mind

[Truthseeker]

We believe in a few very basic and universal truths - like love is good - but we disagree on how those truths should be expressed or administered.

That isn't even to mention all the more "advances" truths such as those surrounding the concepts of eternity, salvation, atonement, etc.

We are most definitely devided.

If we believe in the same spiritual truths we are not divided. There's also the concept of unity in diversity.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Whether or not you believe in the scriptures that are said to be from that God.

Whether you believe in and follow the rules set by this God.

Not every such monotheistic God is the Abrahamic one.

There is only one God, the Creator, the source underlying the universe. Abraham worshiped him. It sounds like the person opening this thread does too. They have simply rejected the Bible.

 

[Rival]

There is only one God, the Creator, the source underlying the universe. Abraham worshiped him. It sounds like the person opening this thread does too. They have simply rejected the Bible.

Yes, but not all monotheim.nerds to be or is Abraham's. If one believes in a single God who never made any covenant with anyone, it's not the same God.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Yes, I understand. But as the child gets older he can think for himself, and choose to see truth as he wants.

I'd like to see some figures as to the numbers doing so - as to changing such beliefs.

 

[nPeace]

You did not answer my question. Do you really believe the boy deserved to die?

Oh sorry.
As I see it, the law of God is based on his standards of justice and righteousness. Therefore, as the one in authority, who sets the law, and requires it be carried out, the one who violates those laws ought to be punished according to the dictates of that law.
So, in other words, to make a law, and not carry it out, is injustice, in itself.
Thus I believe the rebellious son - not sure why you think it is a boy - who refused to obey God, as well as their parents, in carrying out the law of God, was justly punished.

If you want to know if I believe stoning to death is right. I think the one in authority decides what punishment is right. I do not question God's means of execution, in the same way I do not question the means of execution an authority chooses - whether firing squad; guillotine; etc.

I would only question if justice was being carried out, or not. Justice was served to the one who was stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
If I was the same, I would expect the same punishment. Either that, or I pull up my socks, and live by those laws.
The choice is mine.

In a similar way that expelling unrepentant wrong doers from the congregation in the first century protected the congregation - the unrepentant wrongdoer deserved to be cut off from the congregation.
If I wanted to remain with the congregation, then i would need to repent of my wrong doing, and follow the arrangement in place.

I hope I have thoroughly answered your question. If not, feel free to ask anything.

Now will you answer my question....and I have another question... where did you read boy, in Deuteronomy 21:18-21?

 

[nPeace]

Whether the Bible is reliable or not all depends upon what you mean by reliable.
I believe that Jesus, Jeremiah; Isaiah and Moses were all Prophets of God. Jesus was a Messiah, but was never slated by God to be the Messiah of the latter days. That was Baha'u'llah, who was prophesied all throughout the Old Testament.

Baha'u'llah came from Persia, just as the Bible prophesied. Scriptures from the Bible to establish Baha'u'llah as the Prophet for this era, the Messiah of the latter days.

Daniel 8:2 And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.

The Lord was prophesied to set His throne in Elam, from which the Messiah would rule.
Elam is modern-day Persia, where Baha’u’llah was born.

Jeremiah 49:38 And I will set my throne in Elam, and will destroy from thence the king and the princes, saith the LORD.

When that verse was recorded Elam existed and the verses for the coming of the Lord refer to the latter days.

Jeremiah 49:39 But it shall come to pass in the latter days, that I will bring again the captivity of Elam, saith the LORD.

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You asked the question, so what did you mean by reliable? Did i answer your question on what you meant by reliable?

 

[Trailblazer]

You asked the question, so what did you mean by reliable? Did i answer your question on what you meant by reliable?

No, I still don't know what you mean by reliable.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yes, but not all monotheim.nerds to be or is Abraham's. If one believes in a single God who never made any covenant with anyone, it's not the same God.

I disagree with you. If you believe in God, but do not believe God ever made a covenant, it is the same God, but you have some mistaken notions about God.

 

[Rival]

I disagree with you. If you believe in God, but do not believe God ever made a covenant, it is the same God, but you have some mistaken notions about God.

So you're saying the Sikh concept of one God is Abrahamic but wrong?

That doesn't make much sense.

Abrahamic faiths haven't a monopoly on monotheism.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

So you're saying the Sikh concept of one God is Abrahamic but wrong?

That doesn't make much sense.

Abrahamic faiths haven't a monopoly on monotheism.

Sikhism is something I am not studied enough on to make a comment. But I have known ethical monotheists who do not have the Bible, and as far as I'm concerned, they worship the same God.

 

[Muffled]

I do not believe anymore that the Abrahamic God is the one true God.

But i believe in a intelligent force/spirit/God who has created the universe/universes. But i believe God has no spesific religion.

I believe God send holy souls/wise humans to this world to teach us love, holiness, order, justice, peace, kindness.

I believe God do not care about which religion humans believe in, God care about our heart, that we are kind and loving to each other

I believe the God of Abraham fits into that.

 

[Muffled]

Whether or not you believe in the scriptures that are said to be from that God.

Whether you believe in and follow the rules set by this God.

Not every such monotheistic God is the Abrahamic one.

I believe the God of Abraham is the only one that counts. All others are lesser gods.

 

[Muffled]

The violence in the Abrahamic religious books. I do not believe God is behind violence or terrible rules (the only exception is self-defence).

But the Dharmic religious books has also much violence, i do not believe God is behind that violence either.

Yes the different religious books has much wisdom. And i believe God is behind the wisdom and good actions and kindness in the religious books but the violence is not from God.

If God is really loving and just then the logical answer is that God is behind religious books BUT that the violence part or terrible commandments in the books is NOT from God. Much of the content in the religions books is written by humans that use God as a exuse for violence or terrible commandments

I believe then that you don't believe in a real God at all but one that you wish existed.

 

[Starlight]

I believe then that you don't believe in a real God at all but one that you wish existed.

How can you be sure the Bible is 100% from God?

 

[Starlight]

I believe the God of Abraham is the only one that counts. All others are lesser gods.

So you believe that 'lesser gods' exist?

 

[Starlight]

There is only one God, the Creator, the source underlying the universe. Abraham worshiped him. It sounds like the person opening this thread does too. They have simply rejected the Bible.

I have not recjected the Bible. But i do not believe in Bible is 100% from God. I believe also alot words and verses in the Bible is only from men. Alot of the contents is written by humans that used God to justify violence or humans that misunderstood what God wants. They thought God was more angry and hard-hearted than what God really is.

 

[Rival]

Sikhism is something I am not studied enough on to make a comment. But I have known ethical monotheists who do not have the Bible, and as far as I'm concerned, they worship the same God.

I see what you are saying but I think they would disagree, same as how many Jews would disagree the Christian God is the same as theirs.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I see what you are saying but I think they would disagree, same as how many Jews would disagree the Christian God is the same as theirs.

The issue of the Christian God is iffy. On the one hand, they DO claim to worship the God of Abraham. On the other hand, they add this worship of a mere man, which is foreign and forbidden to us. The sages respond to this in two different ways. The first is to simply say that Christianity is avodah zarah, strange worship aka idolatry. But there is second manner to understand Christianity apart from that.

Judaism accepts that non-Jews may have an association with God. Sheetuf means association. For example, the Egyptian monotheists associated the Sun with God, but still worshiped ONE God. That would be sheetuf. In Christianity, the association is the man Jesus. It's like Christians look towards God in heaven, but everything they see is colored by the Jesus stained glasses they have on. It doesn't mean they don't worship the same God of Abraham -- they are simply confusing that God with this association.

Understanding Christianity as sheetuf rather than avodah zarah makes it possible for Jews to do business with Christians. Jewish law disallows Jews to do business with pagans within a few days of any of those pagan's holy days. Sunday has been a traditional holy day for Christians. To avoid business within the time period surrounding Sunday would essentially eliminate any day that Jews could do business with Jews. The very fact that Jews, especially Orthodox Jews, DO do business with Christians, shows the acceptance that Christianity is not avodah zarah, but sheetuf.

 

[Rival]

The issue of the Christian God is iffy. On the one hand, they DO claim to worship the God of Abraham. On the other hand, they add this worship of a mere man, which is foreign and forbidden to us. The sages respond to this in two different ways. The first is to simply say that Christianity is avodah zarah, strange worship aka idolatry. But there is second manner to understand Christianity apart from that.

Judaism accepts that non-Jews may have an association with God. Sheetuf means association. For example, the Egyptian monotheists associated the Sun with God, but still worshiped ONE God. That would be sheetuf. In Christianity, the association is the man Jesus. It's like Christians look towards God in heaven, but everything they see is colored by the Jesus stained glasses they have on. It doesn't mean they don't worship the same God of Abraham -- they are simply confusing that God with this association.

Understanding Christianity as sheetuf rather than avodah zarah makes it possible for Jews to do business with Christians. Jewish law disallows Jews to do business with pagans within a few days of any of those pagan's holy days. Sunday has been a traditional holy day for Christians. To avoid business within the time period surrounding Sunday would essentially eliminate any day that Jews could do business with Jews. The very fact that Jews, especially Orthodox Jews, DO do business with Christians, shows the acceptance that Christianity is not avodah zarah, but sheetuf.

Yup, I'm aware of much of this, but I just can't agree with you that every monotheist believes in the God of Abraham.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yup, I'm aware of much of this, but I just can't agree with you that every monotheist believes in the God of Abraham.

That's okay, the name of this forum is "disagreeing agreeably."