I have a feeling that the afterlife doesn't exist

[YoursTrue]

I personally think that Hell and Heaven doesn't exist, but that we instead may end up in the Underworld where we get cleansed from corruption and memories.
Once we are cleaned up and all new again, we get reincarnated into a new world of our own choice. (A choice we made before we lost our memories)

isn't that like purgatory? And what will happen? Will you have consciousness as you think maybe you will be cleansed in the "underworld"?

 

[soulsurvivor]

I know religious people are absolutely convinced of some sort of afterlife but for me I am not convinced at all for me personally I feel like nothing will happen when I die now of course I don't know what happens but I just feel like nothing will happen anyway what are your thoughts on an afterlife ?

This means that you believe that we have nothing besides our physical body and physical brain (no soul, no spirit, no separate consciousness etc).

The question is whether you want to find out if there is an afterlife or not. If you say you don't believe in UFOs, but refuse to read anything about UFOs, your belief will never change. I suggest if you are interested, you should read about NDE's or people's experiences under anesthesia.

In the meantime, here is good explanation of what happens after death: Heaven, Hell and the AfterLife

 

[Twilight Hue]

um...atoms just don't collect together to make a person. God alone can do that; not atoms by themselves without direction. They just don't assemble and make a body. Usually it takes a man and woman to "form" another body. The atoms don't just come together by themselves. Which proves to ME that it is only by God's holy spirit (his initiating force) that makes anything. No wonder the Bible says that God makes ALL things...everything in the heavens and on the earth..

No. That's not true at all. It's organic chemistry by which atoms bond and create molecules that in turn form life. That is clearly observable.

There is no God listed in the periodic table and no god interacting in how atoms form and separate anywhere in the entire process.

Unless you point out where exactly god gets involved in the actual process.

 

[YoursTrue]

No. That's not true at all. It's organic chemistry by which atoms bond and create molecules that in turn form life. That is clearly observable.

There is no God listed in the periodic table and no god interacting in how atoms form and separate anywhere in the entire process.

Unless you point out where exactly god gets involved in the actual process.

I don't have to do that. To me, it is clear that the process of life is beyond science. But if you think it is not, that's up to you. Maybe you think your atoms and cells have markers on them before you were conceived and after you go back to the dust? Anyway, have a good day. Oh, and before I forget, maybe you think some unseen force put markers on them?

 

[YoursTrue]

No. That's not true at all. It's organic chemistry by which atoms bond and create molecules that in turn form life. That is clearly observable.

There is no God listed in the periodic table and no god interacting in how atoms form and separate anywhere in the entire process.

Unless you point out where exactly god gets involved in the actual process.

so just to clarify, you think atoms think about things, in other words, how they will bond with other atoms? is that the way organic chemistry works?

 

[Twilight Hue]

so just to clarify, you think atoms think about things, in other words, how they will bond with other atoms? is that the way organic chemistry works?

Atoms don't think but they are animated/reactive building blocks of matter which is the first place I'd look if I wanted to see exactly how life works.

 

[YoursTrue]

No. That's not true at all. It's organic chemistry by which atoms bond and create molecules that in turn form life. That is clearly observable.

There is no God listed in the periodic table and no god interacting in how atoms form and separate anywhere in the entire process.

Unless you point out where exactly god gets involved in the actual process.

I'm just wondering if you think atoms think. And the body when dead is dissolved.

 

[Tomef]

I know religious people are absolutely convinced of some sort of afterlife but for me I am not convinced at all for me personally I feel like nothing will happen when I die now of course I don't know what happens but I just feel like nothing will happen anyway what are your thoughts on an afterlife ?

Being dead exists. That comes after life.

 

[Xian Fanatic]

isn't that like purgatory? And what will happen? Will you have consciousness as you think maybe you will be cleansed in the "underworld"?

Nah purgatory is where you are punished for your sins, but I don't believe that punishment for your sins in the afterlife is righteous or wise. Why punish people in the afterlife when the law of karma punishing people in life would be more justifiable and righteous?

As for what happens, well, I don't know how the Underworld cleanse us, perhaps we float down a cleansing river of some sort and then drink the soup of forgetfulness given by Old lady Meng after choosing what type of world we want to live in?

 

[Twilight Hue]

I'm just wondering if you think atoms think. And the body when dead is dissolved.

Nope on the atom question unless something is discovered to say otherwise, but it does lead to molecules, DNA/RNA and organisms that do think or react to their environments.

As for the body, it just separates and falls apart on the atomic level. Every atom is still there even after death. No real changes at all.

 

[YoursTrue]

Nope on the atom question unless something is discovered to say otherwise, but it does lead to molecules, DNA/RNA and organisms that do think or react to their environments.

As for the body, it just separates and falls apart on the atomic level. Every atom is still there even after death. No real changes at all.

we weren't discussing RNA/DNA thinking, but anyway I doubt tests have been taken showing that they think. Anyway, have a good day and I do believe our discussion is over. That's what I think and hope, and when I die, I am purty sure nothing of mine will "think." But you have a nice day in the meantime during your existence, take care. (Discussion over thanks for expression yourself and bye for now... )

 

[YoursTrue]

Nah purgatory is where you are punished for your sins, but I don't believe that punishment for your sins in the afterlife is righteous or wise. Why punish people in the afterlife when the law of karma punishing people in life would be more justifiable and righteous?

As for what happens, well, I don't know how the Underworld cleanse us, perhaps we float down a cleansing river of some sort and then drink the soup of forgetfulness given by Old lady Meng after choosing what type of world we want to live in?

yah, sir or gal. If you believe that, I really do prefer what the Bible teaches about this. When we're dead, we're dead. No thinking, no activity in death. Psalm 146 helps to explain this:

I will praise the LORD while I live;
I will sing praises to my God while I have my being.
Do not trust in princes,
In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation.
His spirit departs, he returns to the earth;
In that very day his thoughts perish.

How blessed is he whose help is the God of Jacob,
Whose hope is in the LORD his God,
Who made heaven and earth,
The sea and all that is in them;
Who keeps faith forever;
Who executes justice for the oppressed;
Who gives food to the hungry.
The LORD sets the prisoners free.

So, according to what I learned from the Bible, on the day we die, our thoughts die with us, or perish. There is no thinking in the grave, or Sheol, the place we go in essence, when we die. But there is hope...

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Interesting. I'll be back to you later in the day.......Namaste

I'm interested in knowing your personal interpretation of the following scriptures. I'm addressing this post specifically to you because I'd like to know your thoughts on them. I decided to address you directly because I'm already aware of how a couple of others in this discussion interpret the Bible, so I'm not interested in hearing from them. I won't name names, but I have never agreed with the scriptural interpretation or teachings of their church denomination. I don't now, nor did I when I was a devout Christian, a street preacher, and an evangelism team leader. I'd like for you to know that I'm speaking from the perspective of a spiritualist who has experienced paranormal phenomena (earthbound spirits and hauntings) since I was 6 years old (a total of 44 years).

Jesus mentioned the appearance of a ghost in Luke 24:37–39 because his disciples thought he was a ghost. 1 Samuel 28:7–20 mentions the ghost of Samuel communicating with King Saul and warning him that God would deliver both him and Israel into the hands of the Philistines because of his disobedience. There is no mention in these verses that the spirit he spoke to was anything else but the ghost of Samuel. Ecclesiastes 9:5 states that the dead know nothing, and even their names are forgotten. However, if the dead know nothing, then how would they know if they are either in heaven or hell? For example, in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19–31), the rich man knew that he was in torment in Hades ("because I am in agony in this fire"). It is a parable of a dead rich man who was obviously conscious that he was being tormented in Hades, was able to recognize Lazarus and Abraham from afar, and also pleaded with Abraham to help him. It seemingly contradicts Ecclesiastes 9:5, which claims that the dead know nothing.

Furthermore, Ecclesiastes 9:5 states that there is no final reward for the dead and that even their names are forgotten. However, it conflicts with other scriptures that suggest there are final rewards given in heaven (such as these verses here) and that people's names have been written in a "Book of Life" that God is said to have on hand (see the verses here), as well as their names being recorded in heaven (Luke 10:20). Upon extensive reading, study, and examination of the Bible, I've found that Ecclesiastes 3:21 specifies that human spirits and the spirit of the animal rise upward from the earth. Revelation 20:13 states that spirits rise up from the sea and Hades. Also, Hebrews 9:27 states that people are destined to die once and, after that, face judgment, and 2 Corinthians 5:8 suggests that believers are in the presence of Jesus after death. However, according to 1 Thessalonians 4:13–17 and Revelation 20:11–15, both believers and unbelievers' spirits are sleeping in their graves and awaiting God's judgment in the end times. Furthermore, there are other verses that describe "soul sleep" (Daniel 12:2, 2 Chronicles 32:33, 2 Chronicles 33:20, 1 Kings 15:8, 1 Kings 16:28, 2 Kings 13:13, 2 Kings 14:29, John 11:11–15) as well.

In conclusion, and for your reference, I'm including what I wrote in a previous post earlier in this thread (post #59).

And perhaps a scriptural interpretation that all Christians might agree on rather than being divided by the Greek Orthodox Bible (with a 79-book canon), the Catholic Bible (with a 73-book canon), and multiple translations of the Protestant Bible (with a 66-book canon). If they could all agree on which Bible is correct, then perhaps they could agree on what it actually says about an afterlife rather than most of them repeatedly quoting Hebrews 9:27 as if it were the sole verse in the Bible that mentions a hereafter. However, it isn't the only verse. For example, Ecclesiastes 3:21 suggests that human spirits rise upward from the earth, and Revelation 20:13 suggests that they also rise from the sea and Hades and then face God's judgment. Conversely, 1 Thessalonians 4:13–17 and Revelation 20:11–15 suggest that all human spirits (both Christians and non-Christians alike) are sleeping in their graves until they are resurrected and judged by God in the alleged end times. Furthermore, Daniel 12:2, 2 Chronicles 32:33, 2 Chronicles 33:20, 1 Kings 15:8, 1 Kings 16:28, 2 Kings 13:13, 2 Kings 14:29, and John 11:11–15 all support the concept of "soul sleep." There is also 2 Corinthians 5:8, which suggests that Jesus' followers are instantly in his presence after death. Someone suggested earlier in this thread that people should read and study the Bible. I'd be more specific about which people.

 

[Spice]

I'm interested in knowing your personal interpretation of the following scriptures. I'm addressing this post specifically to you because I'd like to know your thoughts on them. I decided to address you directly because I'm already aware of how a couple of others in this discussion interpret the Bible, so I'm not interested in hearing from them. I won't name names, but I have never agreed with the scriptural interpretation or teachings of their church denomination. I don't now, nor did I when I was a devout Christian, a street preacher, and an evangelism team leader. I'd like for you to know that I'm speaking from the perspective of a spiritualist who has experienced paranormal phenomena (earthbound spirits and hauntings) since I was 6 years old (a total of 44 years).

Jesus mentioned the appearance of a ghost in Luke 24:37–39 because his disciples thought he was a ghost. 1 Samuel 28:7–20 mentions the ghost of Samuel communicating with King Saul and warning him that God would deliver both him and Israel into the hands of the Philistines because of his disobedience. There is no mention in these verses that the spirit he spoke to was anything else but the ghost of Samuel. Ecclesiastes 9:5 states that the dead know nothing, and even their names are forgotten. However, if the dead know nothing, then how would they know if they are either in heaven or hell? For example, in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19–31), the rich man knew that he was in torment in Hades ("because I am in agony in this fire"). It is a parable of a dead rich man who was obviously conscious that he was being tormented in Hades, was able to recognize Lazarus and Abraham from afar, and also pleaded with Abraham to help him. It seemingly contradicts Ecclesiastes 9:5, which claims that the dead know nothing.

Furthermore, Ecclesiastes 9:5 states that there is no final reward for the dead and that even their names are forgotten. However, it conflicts with other scriptures that suggest there are final rewards given in heaven (such as these verses here) and that people's names have been written in a "Book of Life" that God is said to have on hand (see the verses here), as well as their names being recorded in heaven (Luke 10:20). Upon extensive reading, study, and examination of the Bible, I've found that Ecclesiastes 3:21 specifies that human spirits and the spirit of the animal rise upward from the earth. Revelation 20:13 states that spirits rise up from the sea and Hades. Also, Hebrews 9:27 states that people are destined to die once and, after that, face judgment, and 2 Corinthians 5:8 suggests that believers are in the presence of Jesus after death. However, according to 1 Thessalonians 4:13–17 and Revelation 20:11–15, both believers and unbelievers' spirits are sleeping in their graves and awaiting God's judgment in the end times. Furthermore, there are other verses that describe "soul sleep" (Daniel 12:2, 2 Chronicles 32:33, 2 Chronicles 33:20, 1 Kings 15:8, 1 Kings 16:28, 2 Kings 13:13, 2 Kings 14:29, John 11:11–15) as well.

In conclusion, and for your reference, I'm including what I wrote in a previous post earlier in this thread (post #59).

And perhaps a scriptural interpretation that all Christians might agree on rather than being divided by the Greek Orthodox Bible (with a 79-book canon), the Catholic Bible (with a 73-book canon), and multiple translations of the Protestant Bible (with a 66-book canon). If they could all agree on which Bible is correct, then perhaps they could agree on what it actually says about an afterlife rather than most of them repeatedly quoting Hebrews 9:27 as if it were the sole verse in the Bible that mentions a hereafter. However, it isn't the only verse. For example, Ecclesiastes 3:21 suggests that human spirits rise upward from the earth, and Revelation 20:13 suggests that they also rise from the sea and Hades and then face God's judgment. Conversely, 1 Thessalonians 4:13–17 and Revelation 20:11–15 suggest that all human spirits (both Christians and non-Christians alike) are sleeping in their graves until they are resurrected and judged by God in the alleged end times. Furthermore, Daniel 12:2, 2 Chronicles 32:33, 2 Chronicles 33:20, 1 Kings 15:8, 1 Kings 16:28, 2 Kings 13:13, 2 Kings 14:29, and John 11:11–15 all support the concept of "soul sleep." There is also 2 Corinthians 5:8, which suggests that Jesus' followers are instantly in his presence after death. Someone suggested earlier in this thread that people should read and study the Bible. I'd be more specific about which people.

WOW -- I've got some homework ahead of me! LOL I love it! Thank you for the research and thinking challenge. I will surely reply when I have my notes compiled. My scratch pad is already on my chair arm ready to go............

 

[YoursTrue]

Nope on the atom question unless something is discovered to say otherwise, but it does lead to molecules, DNA/RNA and organisms that do think or react to their environments.

As for the body, it just separates and falls apart on the atomic level. Every atom is still there even after death. No real changes at all.

As Jesus said at Matthew chapter 10:

Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
29“Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father.
30“But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31“So do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows."

God knows who we are and can bring us back from the dead.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

WOW -- I've got some homework ahead of me! LOL I love it! Thank you for the research and thinking challenge. I will surely reply when I have my notes compiled. My scratch pad is already on my chair arm ready to go............View attachment 89949

I'm looking forward to hearing from you, Spice.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Nah purgatory is where you are punished for your sins, but I don't believe that punishment for your sins in the afterlife is righteous or wise. Why punish people in the afterlife when the law of karma punishing people in life would be more justifiable and righteous?

As for what happens, well, I don't know how the Underworld cleanse us, perhaps we float down a cleansing river of some sort and then drink the soup of forgetfulness given by Old lady Meng after choosing what type of world we want to live in?

You can believe whatever you want about the afterlife, so please don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. Some religious people like to insist that they know what will happen in the afterlife based on their preferred religious beliefs, sacred religious texts, and church doctrines. In my opinion, they're just speculating like the rest of us. Even those of the same religion can't agree on what happens to people after death, but they all think they are right and everyone else is dead wrong. In my experience, most of them hardly ever say "this is what I believe or think" or "this is just my opinion," but instead insist that their beliefs regarding the afterlife are absolute truth. I see this happen primarily with Abrahamic theists. However, I think the fact remains that the spirit world and their afterlife could be entirely different from what they believe. I believe the same is true for those who don't believe in an afterlife.

I'm a spiritualist, and I think about what the afterlife will be like, but I can't say that I know for certain. I believe that the afterlife of a person is primarily determined by them, which means their character and the decisions they've made in their life can affect what happens to them after they die. Of course, I could be right or wrong. I don't have a problem with admitting that I don't know. I have beliefs and experiences, but I've never died, so I'm not sure. And finally, it's important to remember that we're just sharing what we believe about the afterlife, whether it's based on our personal spiritual beliefs or not.

 

[Twilight Hue]

As Jesus said at Matthew chapter 10:

Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
29“Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father.
30“But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31“So do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows."

God knows who we are and can bring us back from the dead.

I'm not privy to those beliefs anymore and the Bible has no influence nor authority for me.

I stick with nature and the tools of science and find it to be quite satisfactory rather than relying on an ancient mythology.

I find it to be quite reassuring and adequate as nature itself is more than capable when it comes to death and life that I don't need nor require any god or scripture for comfort and refuge.

 

[YoursTrue]

I'm not privy to those beliefs anymore and the Bible has no influence nor authority for me.

I stick with nature and the tools of science and find it to be quite satisfactory rather than relying on an ancient mythology.

I find it to be quite reassuring and adequate as nature itself is more than capable when it comes to death and life that I don't need nor require any god or scripture for comfort and refuge.

Forgive me, what are your personal hopes for your future?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Forgive me, what are your personal hopes for your future?

I have none as all hopes are fulfilled already. Nature is doing fine already as it is along with it's capabilities.

I find it extremely comforting with the indigenous saying that it's not you who owns the land, but it is the land that owns you.

A look at Carl Sagons Pale Blue Dot puts things in perspective that is humbling as it is as much awe provoking.

My hopes are and have been satisfied beyond measure. I know because I faced death twice now and know when it happens I'll most certainly be in good 'hands' of the natural forces that brought me about in the first place.