I don't have the language skills needed.

[Spirit of Light]

Your English is very good. But I know what you mean. Explaining abstract concepts without being clumsy can be very challenging, unless one has an enormous vocabulary in the language.

You are very much hitting the nail on the head with your comment my vocabulary is limited, especially in use of spiritual jargon.
But as some others have mentioned, sometimes it seems like a few people play dumb in discussions because they them selvs don't understand spiritual practice and have no way of not thinking "logically" as one must do in science as an example

 

[exchemist]

You are very much hitting the nail on the head with your comment my vocabulary is limited, especially in use of spiritual jargon.
But as some others have mentioned, sometimes it seems like a few people play dumb in discussions because they them selvs don't understand spiritual practice and have no way of not thinking "logically" as one must do in science as an example

Sure. I get frustrated in a similar way when discussing science or faith with some people here.

I suppose one has to accept that a forum like this includes a wide spectrum of people, some of whom don't have much education, or else arrive with deep-seated prejudices, or an agenda they are determined to promote at all costs, or are just plain "thick as two short planks", as we say in England, i.e. deeply stupid. Some of these people I've worked out and have put on Ignore. But there are plenty of others who have the skills to see another person's point of view and who can understand nuance and subtlety.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Sure. I get frustrated in a similar way when discussing science or faith with some people here.

I suppose one has to accept that a forum like this includes a wide spectrum of people, some of whom don't have much education, or else arrive with deep-seated prejudices, or an agenda they are determined to promote at all costs, or are just plain "thick as two short planks", as we say in England, i.e. deeply stupid. Some of these people I've worked out and have put on Ignore. But there are plenty of others who have the skills to see another person's point of view and who can understand nuance and subtlety.

Yes, mostly all RF members I speak with/discuss with on a daily basis there not a problem at all. Only a few seem to zapp my energy every single time and they don't even know they doing it.

I must build a spiritual wall to protect my self from those poopy folks

 

[exchemist]

Yes, mostly all RF members I speak with/discuss with on a daily basis there not a problem at all. Only a few seem to zapp my energy every single time and they don't even know they doing it.

I must build a spiritual wall to protect my self from those poopy folks

Or just use an e-wall, by means of the Ignore function.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Or just use an e-wall, by means of the Ignore function.

I try to avoid using ignore, because I believe people has their right to speak their mind, but yes it might happen I must use it

 

[Starlight]

Use google translate i do that

 

[Spirit of Light]

Use google translate i do that

Unfortunately google translation does not do well on spiritual jargon
Or fix unwillingness from others

 

[exchemist]

I try to avoid using ignore, because I believe people has their right to speak their mind, but yes it might happen I must use it

By using Ignore you are not preventing them speaking. It's just that you, personally, do not have to listen. If you consider them "poopy folks" and need to build a "spiritual wall" against them, why bother to force yourself to endure what they have to say? I agree it seems harsh to write someone off as not worth ever paying attention to, but my experience is that there are some people who belong in that category.

 

[Starlight]

Unfortunately google translation does not do well on spiritual jargon
Or fix unwillingness from others

I hope everything works out for you soon

 

[Spirit of Light]

By using Ignore you are not preventing them speaking. It's just that you, personally, do not have to listen. If you consider them "poopy folks" and need to build a "spiritual wall" against them, why bother to force yourself to endure what they have to say? I agree it seems harsh to write someone off as not worth ever paying attention to, but my experience is that there are some people who belong in that category.

Am I being to nice again

 

[Spirit of Light]

I hope everything works out for you soon

Me too, the way I was completely drained of energy this morning was not a pleasant experience

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I just woken up and I know I was dreaming about last nights discussion of the two OP's I made.
And I gain the insight to that my English language skills are insufficient to explain my belief, how I understand something to be.
To me my belief is very clear, but when writing it down in RF it seems like some people can not understand what my words mean. And that is on me, not them.

Until I find a better way of communications I may speak less about religious topics. I get so drained from trying to explain and there is questions I can not answer, today I woke up with no energy at all, and it means it's time for me to not continue discussion for sometime.

I will discuss non religious topics.

It's not you. I'm native English and still at a loss for words. Some religious words and context are difficult to communicate because English has so many idioms and such without background it's hard to follow a conversation. I read in some other countries their languages are set that both parties know indirectly the background so less need for definitions. English because of idioms there needs to be context. It's not religious in nature.

Your English is perfect from what I gather. I didn't know that wasn't your first language before you changed your username.

The reason it's difficult in my opinion is you already have a preset of what people say before they say it. So, you've already put a block between them and you. It's not a language issue, how I see it.

Also, I have to remind myself people have different character. So, say if I give feedback, another may take it as an insult when that wasn't the intention. It gets highly irritating that taking a break it leaving tends to cross my mind. It just takes being a bit more open and not grouping people.

It takes practice but I honestly don't believe it's your English.

 

[Spirit of Light]

It's not you. I'm native English and still at a loss for words. Some religious words and context are difficult to communicate because English has so many idioms and such without background it's hard to follow a conversation. I read in some other countries their languages are set that both parties know indirectly the background so less need for definitions. English because of idioms there needs to be context. It's not religious in nature.

Your English is perfect from what I gather. I didn't know that wasn't your first language before you changed your username.

The reason it's difficult in my opinion is you already have a preset of what people say before they say it. So, you've already put a block between them and you. It's not a language issue, how I see it.

Also, I have to remind myself people have different character. So, say if I give feedback, another may take it as an insult when that wasn't the intention. It gets highly irritating that taking a break it leaving tends to cross my mind. It just takes being a bit more open and not grouping people.

It takes practice but I honestly don't believe it's your English.

Don't believe in my English? What does that mean?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

my English language skills are insufficient to explain my belief, how I understand something to be. To me my belief is very clear, but when writing it down in RF it seems like some people can not understand what my words mean. And that is on me, not them. Until I find a better way of communications I may speak less about religious topics.

Are you sure that it's a matter of not knowing how to express yourself in English? You've expressed this sentiment clearly. You find it exhausting to present your opinions on spirituality so much so that you need a break from that. I'm guessing that if you wrote in plain Norwegian and ran it through an English translator, that your experience would be about the same. Perhaps it's language skills in general - difficulty expressing ideas in words.

Still, I don't think so. I go by this post of yours to say that when you are discussing something concrete, you can do so. Although you say that to you, your belief is very clear, I'd suggest that the problem is that you don't actually have a clear idea of what it is you are pursuing that you call your spiritual journey, and don't know what to say about it in any language. Ask yourself why it is in only that one area that you are becoming frustrated and need a break.

But as some others have mentioned, sometimes it seems like a few people play dumb in discussions because they them selves don't understand spiritual practice and have no way of not thinking "logically" as one must do in science as an example. Only a few seem to zap my energy every single time and they don't even know they doing it. I must build a spiritual wall to protect my self from those poopy folks

I might be one of those people you are describing. I know that I have asked you several times without getting a response from you just what it is you are doing and trying to do, and how this activity has changed you or benefitted you. I suspect that the reason is because what you are doing is not different from many others do without the trappings of those who speak about spirituality (Look out, because here comes some free advice).

My wife is a good example. She has a significant connection to nature. She gardens daily. She plants what the bees and butterflies like, and takes delight in them. She can identify them. She was raising monarch butterflies until the wasps and fungi began destroying them in their cocoons (even in an enclosed mesh and wood box), and this grieved her, so she stopped. She put of feeder to attract the hummingbirds, and a fountain for the songbirds. She is singing much of the time. She loves to have her dogs close. She paints. She loves to cook. She loves art and travel. She is at war with nobody.

And yet, she never uses the word spirituality. She doesn't have any rituals to get into any particular mood, no woodland sounds playing, no special or deliberate meditation practices, no incense burning, and no namastes or references to goddesses.

We have friends that do do all of that. They're both acupuncturists, they both post inspirational memes on Facebook, and their language is dripping with this culture of spirituality. She likes to post pictures of the evening or night sky with the moon and planets, always being careful to let us know what house of the zodiac they are in, and maybe throwing in a little pagan mythology. They'll celebrate Samhain and Saturnalia rather than Halloween or Christmas, because the letter are too profane for them now. I think you get the picture.

And yet, I don't see them as being any better off than my wife, no more centered, no wiser, no happier, etc..

And so I am trying to find out from you as well as others just what it is you seek, what you think you have found, and what it does for you, because I suspect that what you are doing is looking for that same sense of order and purpose using a method that I don't believe adds anything, and can in fact be distracting, and even counterproductive if you are expecting to gain some kind of arcane knowledge or transcendent existence through masters and gurus that I believe never comes from them. In short, I suspect that if you dropped all of the spirituality jargon and just focused on finding and pursuing what activities give your life meaning - maybe playing your harmonica or hiking through the woods - you would find your answers that I suspect that the path you have chosen isn't providing you.

That's how I read your frustration here: not a language thing, but a clarity of thought and purpose thing that leaves you unable to express anything in that area except the desire to find something that I suspect is right living and right thinking, and your frustration in having little to show for it. You frame this as an inability to express ideas that you hold clearly, but that's not credible.

I don't know if I'm on the right track here or not, because you wouldn't discuss these matters with me, and I have been left to speculate why. I suspect that you are insecure and fearful of looking there too closely. If that's the case, this is a good chance for you to recognize that and adapt your approach to discovery.

My choice would be to cast off the trappings of spirituality, of trying to find the right religion and guru to take you to where you want to be. Words of wisdom might be coming from other directions, directions that you consider mundane, profane, in the box, and just not getting it because it's not couched in the language you think is necessary to find enlightenment. I offer the example of my wife. You can get there yourself directly, no middle man needed, no ism, no guru, no sacred writings. It sounds like your life is already conducive to that. Focus on what's around you that brings you happiness and pursue that, not so-called enlightenment by external sources.

If you want somebody to follow, follow yourself. You seem to have already figured out that a simple life is more satisfying. You've mentioned a mini house and mini car, and living in a relatively natural environment in relative seclusion. Excellent. You're halfway there.

Now examine the source of consternation in your life, and make the necessary changes there. Reconsider why you are having the least spiritual aspect of your life in the area of the pursuit and expression of spirituality and what that means. I suggest that it means that you're barking up the wrong tree. Maybe it's all of the spirituality stuff distracting you from self-discovery. I'm not saying don't pursue a spiritual understanding and relationship with your world. I'm saying that perhaps you can do it better yourself naturally. Perhaps you can't do it at all as long as you are distracted by this otherworldly understanding of how to find what you are looking for.
.

 

[HonestJoe]

And I gain the insight to that my English language skills are insufficient to explain my belief, how I understand something to be.
To me my belief is very clear, but when writing it down in RF it seems like some people can not understand what my words mean. And that is on me, not them.

You get by much better in English than pretty much anyone here would in your native language so you shouldn't be too hard on yourself.

I'd also suggest that this might not be a second language issue but simply the fact that it can be very difficult to express any feelings or beliefs in words, even in your native language. However much you try to explain, there is a point at which nobody is going to be able to fully understand how you feel other than yourself.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I just woken up and I know I was dreaming about last nights discussion of the two OP's I made.
And I gain the insight to that my English language skills are insufficient to explain my belief, how I understand something to be.
To me my belief is very clear, but when writing it down in RF it seems like some people can not understand what my words mean. And that is on me, not them.

Until I find a better way of communications I may speak less about religious topics. I get so drained from trying to explain and there is questions I can not answer, today I woke up with no energy at all, and it means it's time for me to not continue discussion for sometime.

I will discuss non religious topics.

Have you considered writing in your native language, and letting people use Google Translate (which is very good)?

What is your native language, if you don't mind my asking? I think Norwegian?

Here is Google Translate of your OP into Norwegian:

"
Jeg har nettopp våknet og jeg vet at jeg drømte om nattens diskusjon om de to OP-ene jeg laget.
Og jeg får innsikt i at mine engelskkunnskaper ikke er tilstrekkelige til å forklare min tro, hvordan jeg forstår at noe er.
For meg er min tro veldig klar, men når jeg skriver det ned i RF virker det som om noen mennesker ikke kan forstå hva ordene mine betyr. Og det er på meg, ikke dem.

Inntil jeg finner en bedre måte å kommunisere på, kan jeg snakke mindre om religiøse emner. Jeg blir så sliten av å prøve å forklare og det er spørsmål jeg ikke kan svare på, i dag våknet jeg uten energi i det hele tatt, og det betyr at det er på tide for meg å ikke fortsette diskusjonen på en stund.

Jeg vil diskutere ikke-religiøse emner."

 

[Spirit of Light]

Have you considered writing in your native language, and letting people use Google Translate (which is very good)?

What is your native language, if you don't mind my asking? I think Norwegian?

Here is Google Translate of your OP into Norwegian:

"
Jeg har nettopp våknet og jeg vet at jeg drømte om nattens diskusjon om de to OP-ene jeg laget.
Og jeg får innsikt i at mine engelskkunnskaper ikke er tilstrekkelige til å forklare min tro, hvordan jeg forstår at noe er.
For meg er min tro veldig klar, men når jeg skriver det ned i RF virker det som om noen mennesker ikke kan forstå hva ordene mine betyr. Og det er på meg, ikke dem.

Inntil jeg finner en bedre måte å kommunisere på, kan jeg snakke mindre om religiøse emner. Jeg blir så sliten av å prøve å forklare og det er spørsmål jeg ikke kan svare på, i dag våknet jeg uten energi i det hele tatt, og det betyr at det er på tide for meg å ikke fortsette diskusjonen på en stund.

Jeg vil diskutere ikke-religiøse emner."

Yes i have thought of doing that and the translation you did with my text ( i dont mind you doing it of course) show me that the english in it self is good enough directly from my own writing.

I have thought of, maybe my problem has been that the way i think and express my understanding is in fact clear to me, since its pretty much those things i think about every day, but when other people see it from a totally different view, thats when i struggle since i am not at the moment able to understand why "my thoughts" isnt seen the way i do it. After all i speak about how I understand the teaching i follow, i dont speak of how others may understand it.

All i wanted was to present my thoughts, so when others ask questions differently, i can not answer them.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Yes i have thought of doing that and the translation you did with my text ( i dont mind you doing it of course) show me that the english in it self is good enough directly from my own writing.

I have thought of, maybe my problem has been that the way i think and express my understanding is in fact clear to me, since its pretty much those things i think about every day, but when other people see it from a totally different view, thats when i struggle since i am not at the moment able to understand why "my thoughts" isnt seen the way i do it. After all i speak about how I understand the teaching i follow, i dont speak of how others may understand it.

All i wanted was to present my thoughts, so when others ask questions differently, i can not answer them.

Then it is not a lack of English language skill at all. And truth be told, this is a difficulty shared with a lot of us -- those who perceive life from a naturalistic viewpoint have a great deal of difficulty understanding people who try to communicate a more spiritualistic (or perhaps I might even say "supernatural") perspective.

It is fairly easy to describe physical things: one can usually begin with something else, that the listener might be familiar with but has many of the same characteristics -- and then go on to describe how the new thing one is describing is similar to or differs from that. But when you are trying to describe something that the listener has zero conception of, what do you start with? How do you go about it?

It's interesting to note how radically different religious or "spiritual" language is from more natural language. People tend to talk in "scriptural-ese," as you see whenever the Bahai's write, or many Christians: so many thee's and thou's and strange formulations that nobody uses in normal speech, so that the non-religious or non-spiritual person really has a great deal of difficulty even hearing what's being said, let alone understanding it.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Then it is not a lack of English language skill at all. And truth be told, this is a difficulty shared with a lot of us -- those who perceive life from a naturalistic viewpoint have a great deal of difficulty understanding people who try to communicate a more spiritualistic (or perhaps I might even say "supernatural") perspective.

It is fairly easy to describe physical things: one can usually begin with something else, that the listener might be familiar with but has many of the same characteristics -- and then go on to describe how the new thing one is describing is similar to or differs from that. But when you are trying to describe something that the listener has zero conception of, what do you start with? How do you go about it?

It's interesting to note how radically different religious or "spiritual" language is from more natural language. People tend to talk in "scriptual-ese," as you see whenever the Bahai's write, or many Christians: so many thee's and thou's and strange formulations that nobody uses in normal speech, so that the non-religious or non-spiritual person really has a great deal of difficulty even hearing what's being said, let alone understanding it.

Actually you are having some very good points in your reply, and yes I am also seeing the extensively use of Scripture that many use to explain their beliefs. But that could mean they don't actually understand the meaning behind the words in the scriptures, only the words.

Personally I try to avoid using Scripture in my posting, and instead only speak from my own understanding of the topic ( this can of course put off those who only base their discussion on verses)
And it may also confuse many non-believers at times

 

[icehorse]

I just woken up and I know I was dreaming about last nights discussion of the two OP's I made.
And I gain the insight to that my English language skills are insufficient to explain my belief, how I understand something to be.
To me my belief is very clear, but when writing it down in RF it seems like some people can not understand what my words mean. And that is on me, not them.

Until I find a better way of communications I may speak less about religious topics. I get so drained from trying to explain and there is questions I can not answer, today I woke up with no energy at all, and it means it's time for me to not continue discussion for sometime.

I will discuss non religious topics.

Cognitive scientists have an idea they call "expert intuition". In cog. sci. circles, they often just say "intuition", which I'll do moving forward. Human egos seem to be closely aligned with linguistics. Human egos tend to be very fragile.

The truth is, most of what we can do as humans, we cannot accurately put into words. If you think you can accurately describe how you walk, get in touch with Google, because if you CAN describe walking, they'll pay you millions and millions of dollars. We cannot describe how we throw and catch balls. A chess master cannot describe how she made her last move. A master plumber cannot describe how she knew where to look for that leak. And so on. Cog. sci. labels all of these legitimate, repeatable skills as "intuition".

So I wouldn't worry too much about your difficulties describing your ideas about faith or spirituality, welcome to the club.