How you feel finding errors in your scripture?

[Earthling]

They go against my conscience and a voice inside me tells me no one should be treated in a way that is so cruel and barbaric!

I understand that that is your feelings on the subject, but that still doesn't make them errors. The newspapers are full of that stuff as well, but that doesn't mean that the reporting is in error.

 

[Spiderman]

I understand that that is your feelings on the subject, but that still doesn't make them errors. The newspapers are full of that stuff as well, but that doesn't mean that the reporting is in error.

If it goes against my conscience, i don't need to take it as "true" just because the Catholic Church declared "it is the innerant word of God"!

 

[Earthling]

If it goes against my conscience, i don't need to take it as "true" just because the Catholic Church declared "it is the innerant word of God"!

Your conscience doesn't dictate fallibility and it doesn't matter if the Catholic Church or Patrick from Spongebobsquarepants declares "it the inerrant word of God" the question was intended to establish whether or not the so called New Testament contains errors, which I've already demonstrated it does.

 

[Spiderman]

Your conscience doesn't dictate fallibility and it doesn't matter if the Catholic Church or Patrick from Spongebobsquarepants declares "it the inerrant word of God" the question was intended to establish whether or not the so called New Testament contains errors, which I've already demonstrated it does.

Fine!

Regarding Scripture, I can't condemn the atrocities of extremists like ISIS or Taliban, while being okay with Scripture or defending it.

That would be hypocrisy!

 

[Earthling]

Fine!

Regarding Scripture, I can't condemn the atrocities of extremists like ISIS or Taliban, while being okay with Scripture or defending it.

That would be hypocrisy!

Wow. This is somewhat interesting, Pope. Why can't you just come out and say whether or not you think the NT contains errors? Are you saying that that would be defending it, which would be against your conscience while simultaneously going against the Catholic declaration of it being inerrant?

 

[metis]

What is the purpose of the scriptures and how does that change whether or not there are errors?

The purpose of scriptures, all scriptures, is to spread the faith, and we make a huge mistake if we look at them through modern western "eyes" and expect objectivity.

Secondly, there is virtually no way we can subject any scriptures to any objective testing since we are dealing with things going back thousands of years, written by people whom we do not know, and in most cases the events covered cannot be verified.

Thirdly, all religious beliefs are virtually "unfalsifiable". No matter what religious belief a person may have simply cannot be proven wrong, but neither can they be proven right.

Therefore, as Joseph Campbell said, "the myth* became the reality".


* "myth" does not mean nor imply falsehood in this context

 

[stvdv]

The purpose of scriptures, all scriptures, is to spread the faith, and we make a huge mistake if we look at them through modern western "eyes" and expect objectivity.
Secondly, there is virtually no way we can subject any scriptures to any objective testing since we are dealing with things going back thousands of years, written by people whom we do not know, and in most cases the events covered cannot be verified.
Thirdly, all religious beliefs are virtually "unfalsifiable". No matter what religious belief a person may have simply cannot be proven wrong, but neither can they be proven right.
Therefore, as Joseph Campbell said, "the myth* became the reality".
* "myth" does not mean nor imply falsehood in this context

I see the Scriptures as "God's Love" for us, seeing or hearing our cries for help. We need help, God provides help by granting us Scriptures.

 

[Trailblazer]

It's an interesting question. It goes to just how much stock one places in external sources for finding truth. If one has no inner voice to listen to, then everything is invested in the belief it exists elsewhere. And when one projects that onto scriptures as perfect and without error, to come to the realization it's not would be a major life crisis because the hope it can be found "out there" begins to vaporize before one's own eyes. They become left in that impossible place of having to find it within when they lack the faith necessary to look there for it.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that one’s inner voice has anything to do with truth from God. Just because people believe that does not make it a reality. People can imagine any number of things. Such a voice is only valuable to the person who experiences it and believes it came from God. But just how valuable is it if it did not really come from God?

According to my beliefs, truth from God can only be found “out there” because God does not communicate directly to anyone except His Messengers who reveal the religious scriptures. Scriptures do not have to be inerrant in order to convey God’s truth. They only have to come from a real Messenger of God, as opposed to someone who just believed they heard from God.

In my opinion, the problem with mysticism is that once a mystic decides that they have a direct line to God, they think they no longer need any scriptures as a source of truth, so they miss out on God’s truth as it comes through scriptures. They also become an island onto themselves disconnected from the rest of humanity. This might make them feel superior and special but it does not help anyone else in society. It does not engender any sense of community or working together for a common goal. The entire focus is on the individual and their connection to God. This can never work for all of humanity so I do not see the value in it as compared to the revealed religions, which have been the cause of the advancement of civilizations throughout human history.

 

[stvdv]

It's an interesting question. It goes to just how much stock one places in external sources for finding truth. If one has no inner voice to listen to, then everything is invested in the belief it exists elsewhere. And when one projects that onto scriptures as perfect and without error, to come to the realization it's not would be a major life crisis because the hope it can be found "out there" begins to vaporize before one's own eyes. They become left in that impossible place of having to find it within when they lack the faith necessary to look there for it.

Wonderfully said. And also remembering "Human is made in God's image" it all makes so much sense. Search within is all we need to find "Who Am I"

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Secondly, there is virtually no way we can subject any scriptures to any objective testing since we are dealing with things going back thousands of years, written by people whom we do not know, and in most cases the events covered cannot be verified

So, for example, you do not consider anachronisms to be errors because you can't subject the to any objective testing?

 

[Vinayaka]

I use my conscience, and see wisdom in most Hindu scripture, but the idea of infallibility is so against my common sense that I don't really rely on scripture much at all. There are lots of faiths that aren't scripture based, thank goodness. People who can think for themselves usually are drawn in that direction.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The purpose of scriptures, all scriptures, is to spread the faith, and we make a huge mistake if we look at them through modern western "eyes" and expect objectivity.

The purpose of Hindu/Buddhist scriptures is to find truth and a system by which the society can be peaceful and happy. When people are asked to have faith without explanation, it is falsehood.

 

[stvdv]

When people are asked to have faith without explanation, it is falsehood.

I think asking people to have faith without explanation is the first round of God testing how far He can go before people start using common sense or go knock out

 

[Spiderman]

Wow. This is somewhat interesting, Pope. Why can't you just come out and say whether or not you think the NT contains errors? Are you saying that that would be defending it, which would be against your conscience while simultaneously going against the Catholic declaration of it being inerrant?

Oh... I don't know whether the New Testament contains errors...I also don't know it to be innerant....my opinion is it has a few verses that I find stupid like "call no man your father".

 

[Thief]

How you feel finding errors in your scripture? Is it even possible? Okay errors in scripture of others, but not in mine!

I remember when I came across errors in my favorite scripture I was far from happy. Mind tried all kinds of tricks to get around these errors.

How you feel/deal with errors you find, or when others point them out?

Easy to admit to others there is a flaw in your scripture. Or does it take some weeks before you dare speak on it.

a quick comparison of the four gospels will show case the problem
without answers

the quick resolve......
no two people view any incident in the same way
so the report is different from every observer

and then ...no two people read scripture to the same perspective.

so ...here we are

 

[Earthling]

Oh... I don't know whether the New Testament contains errors...I also don't know it to be innerant....my opinion is it has a few verses that I find stupid like "call no man your father".

I see. Well, I have to admit, either you know the Bible pretty well or you do good research in these discussions.

 

[stvdv]

a quick comparison of the four gospels will show case the problem
without answers

the quick resolve......
no two people view any incident in the same way
so the report is different from every observer

and then ...no two people read scripture to the same perspective.

so ...here we are

This was about "How you feel finding errors in your scripture"
Always easier to think "how I feel" than "how other feels"
I didn't want to make it too complicated

 

[Spiderman]

I see. Well, I have to admit, either you know the Bible pretty well or you do good research in these discussions.

I'm also NOT fond of "If your eye causes you to sin pluck it out" cuz I was in a Psyche ward in Rochester MN where a patient had no eyes....his mother died, and filled with grief, he had a pornography addiction he couldn't kick, so he ripped his eyes out of their sockets. His eyes caused him to sin, after all. Jesus told him to. I've really despised that verse ever since.

"Hate Father and mother, I come not to bring peace but a sword," and "unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the son of man, you have no life in you" are all verses that have all the potential to mislead people.

So...I gave up on Scripture, but I hope to some day be able to get from it what it used to give me!

 

[Spiderman]

I'm also NOT fond of "If your eye causes you to sin pluck it out" cuz I was in a Psyche ward in Rochester MN where a patient had no eyes....his mother died, and filled with grief, he had a pornography addiction he couldn't kick, so he ripped his eyes out of their sockets. His eyes caused him to sin, after all. Jesus told him to. I've really despised that verse ever since.

"Hate Father and mother, I come not to bring peace but a sword," and "unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the son of man, you have no life in you" are all verses that have all the potential to mislead people.

So...I gave up on Scripture, but I hope to some day be able to get from it what it used to give me!

Oh...and those are just words from Christ....the words of Paul I question far more than the words of Christ. Jesus and I agree on almost everything. Paul, on the other hand, I seriously question. I mean, he said it's better for people to remain virgins, after all!

 

[Windwalker]

There is absolutely no reason to believe that one’s inner voice has anything to do with truth from God.

Yes there is. Especially when you listen to it and it opens you to the Divine. When that happens, it becomes perfectly clear what is meant by, "Thy will, not mine be done". So yes, it does have to do with the Truth of God.

Just because people believe that does not make it a reality.

Actually.... that's not true. Believing it does make it become Reality. You darn tootin it does. Why? Because faith, hope, intention, divine Will, and surrender to that image, does in fact open you to it, and it becomes your lived Reality.

People can imagine any number of things.

Yes indeed! People imagine they are separated from God, unworthy, unlovable, unloved, etc. And that becomes their lived reality to them. What we imagine can either damn us, or save us.

Such a voice is only valuable to the person who experiences it and believes it came from God. But just how valuable is it if it did not really come from God?

If the result is you live as God would in this world, it's value is Eternal. All else fades away, but not that.

According to my beliefs, truth from God can only be found “out there” because God does not communicate directly to anyone except His Messengers who reveal the religious scriptures.

And this is specifically why I feel it is unhelpful to the spiritual aspirant on their path to Union with the Divine. It's great for teaching the basic principles by objectifying them. But unless it becomes internalized and a lived, experiential reality, one which produces natural fruit from the Vine that is alive and living within you, it becomes just a dead end religion to you. A finger pointing at the moon, is not the Moon. You have to step beyond the finger into the Light of what it is pointing to.

Scriptures do not have to be inerrant in order to convey God’s truth. They only have to come from a real Messenger of God, as opposed to someone who just believed they heard from God.

Anything which speaks the Truth of God is a true Messenger, including that songbird who quoted Holy Scripture to me tonight in the park. All are Divine manifestations, if you have the ears to hear, the eyes to see, and the soul to receive.

In my opinion, the problem with mysticism is that once a mystic decides that they have a direct line to God, they think they no longer need any scriptures as a source of truth, so they miss out on God’s truth as it comes through scriptures.

Well that's not true at all! The Truth of God shines wherever it is heard. Scripture sings anew with the Light of the Divine Mind when you are opened to it. By contrast, previously that had the sound of a scratchy record by comparison. They aren't done away with, they at last make sense!

They also become an island onto themselves disconnected from the rest of humanity.

100% completely a wrong understanding. Absolutely the opposite is true. Without it, we are all disconnected from not only the rest of humanity, but ourselves as well as disconnected from God. To connect with God, connects you as God with the whole of creation. It opens you to the world. It opens you to yourself. It opens you to others.

This might make them feel superior and special but it does not help anyone else in society.

The absolute is opposite is in fact the reality of it. This is just speculation on your part, and perhaps some resentment in there? On the contrary, it makes you feel the servant of others, not superior. It makes you realize how nothing your own ego is in the Light of God. It lets you at last "love others as yourself".

It does not engender any sense of community or working together for a common goal. The entire focus is on the individual and their connection to God.

While the path of the mystic is a largely solitary one, that is in a true sense by design. You die alone, you know. You have to die before God, in order to enter God. But one that is done, then you rise from the grave that was your life in your ego-self, and the whole world is your focus. You see as God sees. Your compassion is God's compassion. Your grace is God's Grace. You become God in the world through your body as vessel.

This is a good thing. Put on your oxygen mask first, if you hope to help others on with theirs. That's an act of love, not selfishness.

This can never work for all of humanity so I do not see the value in it as compared to the revealed religions, which have been the cause of the advancement of civilizations throughout human history.

While religions may have civilizing influence, with both good and not so good results, the path to God is again, a solitary one. But without that, a religion without the Living Soul breathing through its members, is not in fact drawing from Living Waters, but instead from a bucket of water someone had handed down to them, not refreshed since it was drawn hundreds or thousands of years in the past. God's Truth, is not static. If it's not your truth from within you, it's not your Truth.