How to convert a Hindu

[Maya3]

It is not that it is wrong to share. If you want people to come to your temple, synagogue or church. I have no problem with people putting up a sign somewhere, on light post, or community board with invitations. That way people who see it can decide to go if they are interested.

The difference is when people stand on street corners and disrupt peoples day or ring your doorbell. Or even worse threaten people with hell if they don´t believe in a certain way.

Maya

 

[Me Myself]

My only problem is when they threaten.

Or if they dont leave after you tell them I am not interested.

 

[Vinayaka]

in that case how did you ever set foot in a temple in the first place ???

I actually did find it in the phone book, and it was an ISKCON temple. My very first encounter was with ISKCON on the street in the late 60s, early 70s.

Then through friends we found my Guru who lead me into Hinduism.
I think you have taken some words out of context, but I could be wrong. I apologise it I've offended you. The reason I wouldn't come to your temple is that I've already been to temples just like yours. My curiousity is already satisfied. I was just being honest. If I came to the UK, and I probably never will, because I'd rather go to India or Malaysia or Mauritius, I might come to your temple. But as far as I know there are 150 or more temples. It would be hard to decide which ones to go to actually.

I know two or three here that you would most likely feel more at home in than the one I go to.

There may be one eternal truth but there are versions of how it's talked about, or approached. Hinduism is incredibly vast. I've been to most sect's temples, of the 100 or so Ive been to. There may be some that would still feel 'new' to me. but I'm suspecting not many.

If someone does ask about the version of SD I practise, I don't mind sharing at all. One person on here was interested to ask, and we had a nice conversation via PM.

 

[VajraYosid]

This versionism may well be the death of us.

Every damn village has its own gig.

 

[VajraYosid]

Why do they feel the need to change other peoples religion? Why can't they just accept that people already have other religions and that India is a Hindu country and that Hinduism was there first? Places will lose their individuality if they try to make them the same as your own.

I'm not trying to start anything nasty, but I'm curious - taking the above sentiments as guide, how do you as a Buddhist reconcile them with Buddhist missionary activity in India, both ancient and modern (eg, Ambedakar, etc...)

(I ask this as, more or less, a Buddhist myself)

 

[ratikala]

This versionism may well be the death of us.

Every damn village has its own gig.

sadly I have to agree

 

[nameless]

I was not aware that we were talking about penticostal christians ? it was simply ''christian missionaries'' that were refered to , .....?

i was talking about all christian missionaries in india, i quoted the pentecostals because they are the most extreme. The group by the lady teresa just lags behind, the funds they receive for charity purpose is being send to the vatican, and lets the poor people to suffer in unhygeneic facilities, how can u say they have love in their hearts?

I think it would be fair to say that there are many christians who have gained their wealth by fair means and who had no hand in the robing of the world

still this wont make the stolen money pure.

many who involve themselves do so out of love with no wish for repayment or conversion , so yes I would call that love

you mean the charity works by mother teresa?

 

[Vinayaka]

This versionism may well be the death of us.

Every damn village has its own gig.

The solution is not to try to make everyone the same, though. That just causes more in-fighting. The solution is the umbrella-group idea. It has worked successfully in America with the HAF (Hindu America Foundation) and in various cities or metro areas, where each organisation has one seat in the larger group, usually called a council of Indian temples, or Indian temple Federation. In my city we have 17 member groups in the umbrellas organisation called the Council of Indian Societies. So the Gujarati Association, Bengali Association, etc. are all part of it, but what they discuss isn't individual group concerns, but what things would benefit everyone, the more overall concerns. So they organise the Republic Day celebration, stuff like that.

One immediate benefit to hold any political sway is numbers. If we can say, 'We represent 20 000 Hindus, rather than 500, it has a lot more impact.

But like a lot of things, it is hard to get off the ground, because many don't get the bigger picture, that we're working for the group, not individual concerns, just like smaller committees don't work if an individual's ego gets in the way of a larger picture.

 

[Jainarayan]

As crazy or preposterous as this may sound to you, it is actually a core belief of their religion. Not all take it so literally, fortunately. So for them, it's sacred duty to convince others to come to Christ. And on the extreme end, it means by force if necessary. Do whatever trick you can, and it's all good because it is part of the religion.

Which is taken completely out of the context of Jesus's instructions to go preach the message to make disciples of all nations. He said nothing about doing it forcefully or with underhanded tactics, or ******* people off in the process. He said earlier that if the citizens of a town would have none of it, leave the town and shake the dust from your feet. He did give a warning that the people who reject him would suffer, but from ignorance, not hell fire and brimstone as bible-thumpers would have us believe.

Actually, Krishna several times tricked people for the greater good.

And I have no idea on what context you want to tell me that anyways.

Yes he used trickery, which is not the same as coercion or forcefulness. Krishna played on the egos, vanities and ignorance of his "marks", the adharmics in the war.

 

[SageTree]

I understand where the angst comes from......
What missionaries are doing is a gross injustice to Hindus.

But how about just Some Christians instead of Christians?
Not pain everyone with the same brush.

Generalizations make it easy to be angry...
and I don't want any of you to be angry for the wrong reasons,
as you have many just ones to be upset over.

Dishonest conversion has more to do with dishonest people than the message of Jesus, in my opinion.

I can't apologize on behalf of a whole religion....
But I am truly sorry for those who have lots friends and family to tricksters.

 

[ratikala]

dear nameless ,

i was talking about all christian missionaries in india, i quoted the pentecostals because they are the most extreme. The group by the lady teresa just lags behind, the funds they receive for charity purpose is being send to the vatican, and lets the poor people to suffer in unhygeneic facilities, how can u say they have love in their hearts?

if that is what is happening then that is wrong !you know it and I know it , and I am not saying that any charitable organisation headed by those that miss appropriate funds are them selves loving organisations , however amondst the self serving there are also genuine christians who do go to areas of poverty and suffering with the sole intention to help .

because you have identified corruption in the dealings of some charities it does not mean that all are corupt or that you should attempt to tar all with the same brush .

in my mind the best form of charity is enabling people to help them selves , but this is not what we are discussing .

still this wont make the stolen money pure.

and not all money is stolen , ,,,,so you would condemn genuine giving because some giving is not above board ?
that is rather unsound logic .

you mean the charity works by mother teresa?

you delight in attempting to put words in my mouth , no where did I mention any particular group or person , this is your axe that you are attempting to grind .


may I draw your attention to the correct manner of giving , ...bhagavad gita ... chapter 17 ....verse 20

''Charity given out of duty, without expectation of return, at the proper time and place, and to a worthy person is considered to be in the mode of goodness.''

without expectation of return , without conditions and without attatchment to the result , therefore giving should be done because there is genuine need , and not with a veiw to accheiving conversion that would be placing conditions or expectations .

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram vinayaka ji :namaste

I actually did find it in the phone book, and it was an ISKCON temple. My very first encounter was with ISKCON on the street in the late 60s, early 70s.

Then through friends we found my Guru who lead me into Hinduism.
I think you have taken some words out of context, but I could be wrong. I apologise it I've offended you.

no offence taken I am simply ammused at the assumptions and sweeping statements being made in this post .

the subject of coerced conversion was bound to be a little contentious , and is bound to bring out the irrationality in people .

The reason I wouldn't come to your temple is that I've already been to temples just like yours. My curiousity is already satisfied. I was just being honest. If I came to the UK, and I probably never will, because I'd rather go to India or Malaysia or Mauritius, I might come to your temple. But as far as I know there are 150 or more temples. It would be hard to decide which ones to go to actually.

you see what I mean , ....''temples just like yours.'' ... do you know my ashram ?

I know two or three here that you would most likely feel more at home in than the one I go to.

I would feel happy in any temple where I was welcomed by true servants of the lord , I am ever curious and delight in seeing other forms of worship , in this life I will never tire of learning . :namaste

but just out of curiosity I would love to know what temple recomendations you have for me

There may be one eternal truth but there are versions of how it's talked about, or approached. Hinduism is incredibly vast. I've been to most sect's temples, of the 100 or so Ive been to. There may be some that would still feel 'new' to me. but I'm suspecting not many.

oh how I am begining to dislike the word 'sect' , it has the conotation of 'sectarian' , ...
and as you rightly said in another post it is better that all 'traditions' join together under one umbrella , thus hopefully ruling out un nececary difference .

hope I have not offended you either , I too an simply speaking my mind

 

[Kalidas]

This is all pretty sad. Why would people who are taught to give freely use charity as an almost ransom for converting? This is one of the many reasons I left the Christian faith. Well as a Westerner I am sorry this is happening. Hang in there and hold tight to your beliefs, it is when our faith is challenged the most that we find the most out of our faith.

 

[Vinayaka]

I understand where the angst comes from......
What missionaries are doing is a gross injustice to Hindus.

But how about just Some Christians instead of Christians?

I agree with this. The ones who are truly charitable first, with no thought of conversion, are more likely to donate here in North America to Oxfam, the Red cross, etc. When there are already well established schools, hospitals, etc. in India, one wonders why a Christian has to go there, other than as a member of a secular charity group. And as we all know, it's hard to decipher real or hidden reasons some days.

But it's certainly not all.

 

[Vinayaka]

and as you rightly said in another post it is better that all 'traditions' join together under one umbrella , thus hopefully ruling out un nececary difference .

As this one went off topic, I started a new thread for that discussion. http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/hinduism-dir/147974-hindu-solidarity.html

 

[nameless]

if that is what is happening then that is wrong !you know it and I know it , and I am not saying that any charitable organisation headed by those that miss appropriate funds are them selves loving organisations , however amondst the self serving there are also genuine christians who do go to areas of poverty and suffering with the sole intention to help .

first of all, i was talking about christian missionaries in india and not christian population as a whole, got my point? Unfortunately im yet find any such christian organisation in india who does charity without an intention to convert people, if you know of any, then pls tell me.

because you have identified corruption in the dealings of some charities it does not mean that all are corupt or that you should attempt to tar all with the same brush .

i was talking about christian charity organisations in india, i will use the same brush as i find all of them are corrupt.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/CsF9mbBakJU

in my mind the best form of charity is enabling people to help them selves , but this is not what we are discussing .

this is not what christian missionaries in india is doing, hence no reason to be discussed here.

not all money is stolen , ,,,,so you would condemn genuine giving because some giving is not above board ?
that is rather unsound logic .

you are not getting the point, you said this

christians are fortunate enough to be weakthy enough to be charitable'

by saying this you made an impression here that the money which they spend for conversion is legal, i was just denying that. The organisation behind the conversion mission is the same organisation which became rich by looting india, and this illegal money cant be made pure by adding some legal money to it, so as generally speaking, it is the looted money which now is returned back

you delight in attempting to put words in my mouth , no where did I mention any particular group or person , this is your axe that you are attempting to grind .

as said before, if you know about any different organisation who does selfless service or charity, pls tell me..

may I draw your attention to the correct manner of giving , ...bhagavad gita ... chapter 17 ....verse 20

''Charity given out of duty, without expectation of return, at the proper time and place, and to a worthy person is considered to be in the mode of goodness.''

without expectation of return , without conditions and without attatchment to the result , therefore giving should be done because there is genuine need , and not with a veiw to accheiving conversion that would be placing conditions or expectations .

oh pls :bow:... i never made an attempt to convert anyone by offering help/charity, i wonder why u telling all these to me.. i request you to read the thread title. And if you still cant resist teaching us about the charity, pls do start a new thread.

 

[TatTvamAsi]

*I haven't logged on to this forum in years. I read some thread sporadically and this one hits close to home and is very pertinent to my recent research and study.

Vinayaka seems to be a truly rare exception among non-native Hindus. He/she has hit the nail on the head!

I have seen too many people, of all walks of life, peddle this 'all is same' nonsense that it literally gives me a migraine each time I hear that (especially so by daft Indian Hindus).

This conversion business, both Christian and Muslim, is a mega problem around the world and especially so in India where the people are utterly disunited, apathetic, and quite frankly, afraid of their past (history).

The Abrahamic ideologies are akin to cancer. There is no "negotiation" with them. Either the cancer destroys the host, or the cancer cells are removed once and for all. History is a great example; wherever Christianity and Islam have set foot, they have destroyed, looted, and converted the people from their native ways of life.

Imagine, at one time, present-day Pakistan is where the Sindhu Saraswathi river flowed in all its glory. On the banks of that river were the greatest sages this planet has seen who have been able to tap into the nature of reality and pass down their experiences from one generation to the next. Look at that location today! We Hindus cannot even go to the banks of that river to pay homage!

These two Abrahamic ideologies have destroyed the local culture, religions, and peoples and stripped them of their identities. It is happening in front of our own eyes in India.

I recommend EVERY serious Hindu to read Breaking India by Rajiv Malhotra (Breaking India | By: Rajiv Malhotra & Aravindan Neelakandan). It not only talks about the missionary activities in India, but other organizations including foreign governments who are in cahoots with corrupt Indian politicians to influence important decisions in the country.

The book is a must read and talks about the history of how some narratives were fabricated (Aryan vs. Dravidian for instance) to create resentment among Indian Hindus which paved the way for NGOs to ostensibly "help" the downtrodden - in actuality they were being converted. The recent protests at the Kudankulam nuclear plant was organized by church "groups", under the auspices of some extra-governmental entities that did not want India to progress.

There are two important things to consider here.

1.) India and Hinduism are inseparable.
To have Hinduism thrive, India needs to thrive. Its ashrams, temples, sthalams, kshetras, etc. are fundamental to the Hindu ethos. Therefore, it is imperative that India has a pro-Hindu government. I personally feel India should be declared a Hindu nation. Hinduism is truly secular (accommodating people of all stripes and predispositions as "Hindu" is ample proof that it's indeed secular). India should be a place where Hindus around the world can call "home", much like Israel is the "home" of the Jews.

2.) Non-native Hindus must support Hindu causes that are not necessarily religious. This may include politics. It may include civil discourse, etc. Indian/Hindu society is not compartmentalized. Hinduism is the essence of existence for Hindus; it pervades every aspect of life from childhood to death.


India is at the tipping point now. The greatest danger to India and Hinduism is Indian Hindus who like to call themselves "secular". In popular terms these days, they are known as pseudo-seculars or "sickular" for short. They refuse to believe that Hindus are under danger and are actually being targeted by various groups, people, and institutions on a daily basis. They also shoot down any attempt at organization by patriotic Hindus and devout Hindus claiming this cringe-worthy term "communalism". If Hindus were to display any knowledge, let alone pride, in their culture, they will be lambasted by these vermin.

Take a look at this video about this term "Internet Hindus": The Stream - "Internet Hindus" Caught in Online Frays - YouTube

The person who coined that term is "Sagarika Ghose" - a prime example of a pseudo-secular (anti-Hindu). It so happens that her relative is part of the Communist Party of India!

Anyway, my opinion on this is that there will be a time, not too distant in the future, that Hindus in India will have to physically FIGHT the Muslims/Christians and other anti-Hindus (commies etc.). We don't want to think about that, but it seems inevitable. You have two aggressive (three if you include the commies) ideologies subverting a docile, apathetic, and ignorant group of people. If the latter doesn't get their act together, the cancer will indeed finish the host off.

The elections in India are next year (2014). There is only one man who is capable of showing pride in Hinduism; Narendra Modi. If you scan any articles on Modi in western newspapers (NY Times, etc. etc.), they are almost always anti-Modi. Surprised? Didn't think so!

It is imperative that non-native Hindus are aware of this and support a strong, assertive Hindu government in India. Only then can conversions be stopped. In Gujarat, where Modi is CM (like governor), conversions are banned. Still wondering why he is unpopular among the "secular" Indians, Muslims, and Christians?

Please read Breaking India and buy copies for your friends. Get talking about this conversion issue. Vinayaka has done a superb thing by starting this thread. This is vital to Hinduism's survival in Kali Yuga. It will always be there - but for it to be expressed so beautifully as it has been in India, it needs to be protected.

There are many more disturbing trends of subversion of Hinduism and India by Christian fanatics. There is a new trend of Christian "Bharatanatyam" (tamil christian Bharathanatyam video,Naattiyathin jathi paadi - YouTube). I almost threw up when I saw it but things like these need to be curbed and corrected immediately. Many Hindu forms of dance, worship, music etc. are being harvested by these people. Malhotra calls it "digestion" as a tiger would digest a deer and excrete the "waste". In the end, the deer doesn't exist - India/Hinduism would fall victim to the same fate unless this trend is reversed/stopped.

Breaking India is making huge waves in India btw. Some NGOs' licenses have been revoked due to funding shenanigans and they are livid.

You can also tell the blatant bias with which news organizations lampoon Indians, Hindus, and especially Hindu males in the case of the gang rape in Delhi last December. They were trying to say that it was the "culture" (aka Hinduism) that causes the ill-treatment of women! This is passed off as "discussion". The funny thing is that many of these people who write these articles or create "forums" on these issues are INDIANS! These are the pseudos I mentioned earlier. They don't even need Christians to do the shooting anymore! These so-called Hindus do it themselves.

*I usually don't post here but this thread was too good to pass up.

TTA

 

[Kalidas]

Tat though I may not agree with everything you say( to say the abrahmic religions are a cancer that needs to eradicated is no better then what they say and do to the indian hindus) I agree that assisting the Indian Hindus stay Hindu is quit a good idea. I was actually thinking what if we (non Indian Hindus) help those in India survive. Many missionaries use "charity" as a means to convert them over. This has been done in the past "here native Americans take these blankets" SMALL POX! This time its "here are these hospitals and food, now come to Jesus or we may take it away." Okay let's get back on track, what if we here in this forum tried to start a charity type thing. Just a thought.

 

[Kalidas]

Well let me reword that a little. Not be charitable for the purpose of keeping them Hindu since that would be, being charitable for the sake of gaining. No it should be charity to honestly help so they don't have to convert just to receive aid. I actually used to be a Christian and no where in the Bible does it say to be charitable for the sake of conversion, you should do it to help your fellow man. The fact that people use charity as a means to destroy ones culture is honestly quit disgusting.

 

[Sumit]

The Abrahamic ideologies are akin to cancer. There is no "negotiation" with them. Either the cancer destroys the host, or the cancer cells are removed once and for all. History is a great example; wherever Christianity and Islam have set foot, they have destroyed, looted, and converted the people from their native ways of life.

Don't know much about christianity but I read Quran and every Hindu should read quran. Islam is most intolerant religion and it's aim is to destroy all other religion.

Imagine, at one time, present-day Pakistan is where the Sindhu Saraswathi river flowed in all its glory. On the banks of that river were the greatest sages this planet has seen who have been able to tap into the nature of reality and pass down their experiences from one generation to the next. Look at that location today! We Hindus cannot even go to the banks of that river to pay homage!

Soon Hindus in India will be history if they don't wake up. Muslims want to convert India into muglistan. Wach this video (or just type muglistan in google). This video was made in 2006 to 2007. Today conditions are much worst. Approximately more than 6 crore Bangladeshi muslims are living in India and congress party use them to strengthen their vote bank.
[youtube]gbnK0zl5ptg[/youtube]
Truth of Bangladeshi illegal Immigrant - Prepration of Muglistan (Full) - YouTube

These two Abrahamic ideologies have destroyed the local culture, religions, and peoples and stripped them of their identities. It is happening in front of our own eyes in India.

:yes:

I recommend EVERY serious Hindu to read Breaking India by Rajiv Malhotra (Breaking India | By: Rajiv Malhotra & Aravindan Neelakandan). It not only talks about the missionary activities in India, but other organizations including foreign governments who are in cahoots with corrupt Indian politicians to influence important decisions in the country.

The book is a must read and talks about the history of how some narratives were fabricated (Aryan vs. Dravidian for instance) to create resentment among Indian Hindus which paved the way for NGOs to ostensibly "help" the downtrodden - in actuality they were being converted. The recent protests at the Kudankulam nuclear plant was organized by church "groups", under the auspices of some extra-governmental entities that did not want India to progress.

Hindus should also read "Bharatvarsh kaa itihaas" written by Aacharya Ramdev from Gurukul Kangdi. It gives great insights of Hinduism and it's downfall.

The greatest danger to India and Hinduism is Indian Hindus who like to call themselves "secular". In popular terms these days, they are known as pseudo-seculars or "sickular" for short.

:yes:

Anyway, my opinion on this is that there will be a time, not too distant in the future, that Hindus in India will have to physically FIGHT the Muslims/Christians and other anti-Hindus (commies etc.). We don't want to think about that, but it seems inevitable.

You are right, time is near. Recent Riots are the Hints.

The elections in India are next year (2014). There is only one man who is capable of showing pride in Hinduism; Narendra Modi.

Narendra Modi is the only hope of Hindus today. But I am not sure he will win in 2014 election. All pseudo secular, Indian paid media, missionaries stands against him. Even his own senior party members don't want to project him as PM candidate. But if this person becomes the PM, he will change the entire country.