How random is random?

[McBell]

One of my grandchildren started a conversation the other day that began with:

let us say for arguments sake you are in a time loop.​

Like in the Bill Murray movie Groundhog Day.​

If there is a MP3 player set on random play​

would the songs be in the same order each go through?​

or​

would the songs be in a random order each go through?​

 

[John53]

I don't understand the question

 

[exchemist]

One of my grandchildren started a conversation the other day that began with:

let us say for arguments sake you are in a time loop.​

Like in the Bill Murray movie Groundhog Day.​

If there is a MP3 player set on random play​

would the songs be in the same order each go through?​

or​

would the songs be in a random order each go through?​

I think this is rather a “What if the sky were made of concrete?” question, since time loops don’t exist and have not been well defined in the question.

However, if a time loop were to involve revisiting a series of events that have happened, then it would play the same sequence. If on the other hand the time loop involved the chance revisit circumstances but to generate different outcomes each time, then the sequence would be different.

 

[SalixIncendium]

One of my grandchildren started a conversation the other day that began with:

let us say for arguments sake you are in a time loop.​

Like in the Bill Murray movie Groundhog Day.​

If there is a MP3 player set on random play​

would the songs be in the same order each go through?​

or​

would the songs be in a random order each go through?​

I found this video relevant. I think MP3 tracks' random play may be programmed much in the same way.

 

[McBell]

I found this video relevant. I think MP3 tracks' random play may be programmed much in the same way.

It is my understanding that computers can not do complete random.
Only a simulated random.

Though i am not sure how that would effect (or not) the "randomness" of the proposed scenario.

 

[McBell]

I don't understand the question

Can you be more specific?

 

[John53]

Can you be more specific?

No. I'm guessing the problem is I've never seen the movie.

 

[SalixIncendium]

It is my understanding that computers can not do complete random.
Only a simulated random.

Though i am not sure how that would effect (or not) the "randomness" of the proposed scenario.

Whether or not the music will be random depends on the individual player, or how it's programmed.

Standard play would be A-B-C-D-E-F-G

Random play could be C-G-B-F-A-E-D

Some players programmed with a seed state of 1 will play the second sequence each time "random" is selected. Others may be programmed to have more a higher seed state.

Disclaimer - This is a highly speculative assessment (spitballing) based on some random internet searches and may be wrong (and probably is). I'm sure there are those that are by far more knowledgeable than me with this.

 

[MikeF]

One of my grandchildren started a conversation the other day that began with:

let us say for arguments sake you are in a time loop.​

Like in the Bill Murray movie Groundhog Day.​

If there is a MP3 player set on random play​

would the songs be in the same order each go through?​

or​

would the songs be in a random order each go through?​

My vote is that if the random playlist was generated before the loop began, each loop would start with the same generated playlist. In the loop one can stop playing, skip tracks, go back, or generate a new random playlist. However each loop will always begin with the originally generated list

If the random playlist was generated within the first loop if generated again in following loops it would presumably generate a unique playlist each loop. You also may never even start the player again after the first loop.

 

[Brickjectivity]

It is my understanding that computers can not do complete random.
Only a simulated random.

That is true in most cases, however a computer design can include a dedicated chipset to pick up random information from outside of the computer system. Sometimes computers use user actions such as mouse movements and keyboard strokes to create random seeds.

Random numbers in computers depend upon a principle found by Lorentz that in dynamic systems a very small change at the beginning of the system can result in large differences in behavior. We call it The Butterfly Effect. That is how a random seed can create the appearance of complete randomness. If you change a random seed at all even a tiny bit your output pseudo-random number will be very different. The method of processing the seed is mathematical, and you can hear of different algorithms used to obtain pseudo-random numbers. These are important as the pseudo randoms are important for encrypted communications.

Therefore in the Groundhog Day movie if a CD player were set to random it would play everything in the same order each time through the time loop...unless that MP3 player had some ability to pick up random seeds from its environment. That would not be the case, and it would probably get its random seed from its previous state.

If it were a computer playing the CD, then you might get a different result. It might pick up random seeds from vibrations affecting the mouse, and these could be affected by the way Phil was behaving that day.

 

[Brickjectivity]

As for newsman Phil: was he behaving randomly or merely getting his random seed from the previous day?

I cannot answer that, however I believe that the current scientific consensus is that Phil would be affected by quantum random effects causing his behavior to always be different and random, not perfectly dependent upon the previous day's events.

 

[PureX]

One of my grandchildren started a conversation the other day that began with:

let us say for arguments sake you are in a time loop.​

Like in the Bill Murray movie Groundhog Day.​

If there is a MP3 player set on random play​

would the songs be in the same order each go through?​

or​

would the songs be in a random order each go through?​

I would theorize no, that each time sequence would have a "random" song selection playing.

 

[RestlessSoul]

If randomness equates to complete unpredictability, then the songs would play in any (random) sequence including, potentially, the same sequence repeated each time Bill Murray's day was relived - since this would be one random outcome (or series of outcomes).

 

[Ponder This]

One of my grandchildren started a conversation the other day that began with:

let us say for arguments sake you are in a time loop.​

Like in the Bill Murray movie Groundhog Day.​

If there is a MP3 player set on random play​

would the songs be in the same order each go through?​

or​

would the songs be in a random order each go through?​

If the time loop is like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day, then it depends.
The MP3 player would play the same set of songs each time loop as long as Bill Murray doesn't cause it to be different.
Because in Goundhog Day, any events that Bill Murray does not influence always occur as before. A significant premise of the movie is that Bill Murray's character is the only agent of change.

 

[PureX]

If the time loop is like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day, then it depends.
The MP3 player would play the same set of songs each time loop as long as Bill Murray doesn't cause it to be different.
Because in Goundhog Day, any events that Bill Murray does not influence always occur as before. A significant premise of the movie is that Bill Murray's character is the only agent of change.

But isn't it the randomness that is 'repeating'? In which case the random effect of the music player would remain active even in the repeated sequences.