How easy is it for Trinitarians to misread the scriptures?

[firedragon]

"In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with God, and the WORD was God "

Oh thanks.

That makes a big difference.

 

[Soapy]

From the OP: "Why does the Son inherit from the Father if the son is co-almighty with the Father?"

I believe the Father has no body and the Son does.

We know the Father has no body... we know that God is SPIRIT - Scripture tells us this (John 4:24)

The ‘Son’ is a Spiritual Sonship: ‘This day he has become to me a Son, and I have become to him, a Father’, says the Lord God.

Spirit does not procreate : which is Spirit -> Spirit and Flesh -> Flesh otherwise why do we not call angels ‘The Lord God’. No! Spirit CREATES... GOD the Spirit Father CREATED the SPIRIT ANGELS.. The Lord God CREATED JESUS, man, in the same manner as the first man, Adam. Hence Jesus is called, the second Adam / but more expressly, the LAST ADAM. The point of the emphasis of calling him ‘ADAM’, was that this implies SINLESSNESS, Purity, innocence, and HOLINESS. However, the FIRST ADAM sinned.... and a SECOND ADAM was put in his place... a SECOND - and LAST ’ADAM’... born, NOT OF THE SEED OF SINFUL MAN, as were all others PROCREATED from the first Adam, but by the SEED OF THE WOMAN... (there’s more I wrote on this elsewhere in this thread and other threads!)

So it makes sense that God has to reveal His Godliness in the Son

Revelation1:1. Yes, God gave Jesus THE REVELATION (testimony) of himself (God) to give to John via his angel... and John gave it to the congregation.
So, Jesus came to REVEAL THE FATHER. And when it was done, Jesus said:

• It is done, I have given them the testimony you gave me (paraphrase)
• “I have revealed you to them, and I will continue to do so. Then your love for me will be in them, and I will be in them. (John 17:26)
• “For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them.” (John 17:8)

and that could be considered an inheritance. It is misleading because people start thinking about a physical father and son and that is not the case here.

It is true that the vast majority of Christians cannot imagine God as Spirit (who can, really... our concept is equivalent to a cartoon character imagining what it’s human creator is like!!! They would call him ‘Avatar’!)
For this reason, trinity claims that Jesus is a procreated offspring of the unseen Spirit God... and weirdly, is therefore himself, GOD!

They use this absolutely awful set of premises that is profoundly so flawed one has to wonder at the mindset that agrees to the conclusion:

1. Man procreates a Son so the offspring is a man
2. A dog procreates a pup so the offspring is a dog
3. God procreates a Son so the offspring is God

Premises 1 and 2 are true... but premise 3 is FALSE. Do you notice the little ‘a’ in 1 and 2 but missing in 3?

Why is it missing in 3? Because it would read that God procreated A GOD.... which is false because God does not procreate AND certainly GOD is not created - let alone PROCREATED!

Yet the trinity creed states that the son is:

• ‘Very God from very God’

which contradicts the very core of their belief that Jesus was never BORN / Created!!!

 

[Soapy]

I notice at KJV Psalms 110 that there are two (2) LORD/Lord's mentioned.
One LORD is in ALL Upper-Case letters and the other Lord is in some lower-case letters.
I find the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) stands for the LORD God in ALL Upper-Case letters.
Whereas, Lord (in some lower-case letters) stand for the Lord Jesus (No Tetragrammaton there ).
So, yes it was LORD God (YHWH) who made Jesus both Lord and Messiah, King and High Priest.

URAVIP2ME, please don’t take this the wrong way, but if you’ve ONLY JUST made this observation then you need to be very careful what else you claim to know concerning scriptures for the time being.

It is a FACT ... a WELL KNOWN FACT... it is a fundamental FACT...

Yes, the trinitarian translators desired NOT TO PRINT the NAME GOD GAVE TO MOSES: ‘YHWH’. So they SUBSTITUTED the word ‘LORD’, in place.. all caps as you see. This can only lead to confusion because someone who does not know the basis of the name/word might rewrite ‘LORD’ elsewhere as ‘Lord’... confusion reigns - and when it is further passed on in its false state become entrenched as trinitarian FACT!!! Yet ANOTHER trinitarian falsehood!!

The word, ‘Lord’, as seen, is ONLY ... I say again, ONLY... a word meaning someone who is to be treated with high reverence. It could be:

• A Master
• A priest
• A Judge
• A monarch
• A highly rated professional

Do we (UK) not call, for instance, a high level business leader, ‘Lord Alan Sugar’ (look him up if you don’t know).

Do we not call our judges, ‘My Lord’?

Many of of our parliamentary members are called ‘Lords’.

In the Torah, God is our Lord, he is our master. When Jesus was anointed to his profession of revealing the Father, the Father appointed him as ‘Lord’ and God took a step back from direct connection with mankind. To wit: Jesus is NOW OUR Lord...

It is not TWO Lords... we have but ONE Lord: Jesus Christ.

In case you don’t know it, look up:

• ‘God made this Jesus to be both Lord and Messiah’

So, when you hear it, do not be persuaded when a trinitarian tries their mind bending tricks saying:

• God is Lord and Jesus is Lord... you can see that in the Scriptures... and it also says we have only one Lord: Jesus Christ... SO IF BOTH ARE Lord AND WE ONLY HAVE ONE Lord THEN JESUS MUST BE GOD!

Pah!!! This kind of nonsense should shout loud and clear that trinity is false - God WOULD never sanction PROOF OF HIMSELF by lies and deceitfulness.

 

[Soapy]

This is an argument from sola scriptura, which is a heresy not invented until after 1500 ce.

Does this then not show absolutely that trinity is based on lies, deceit, and disingenuousness.

The truth needs no embellishment.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

It is almost impossible for anyone, once indoctrinated into a particular view, to read their texts a different way. I don't care what the theology is or what the text is or what the religion is. This is just typical of humans in general.

This is why I'm not harsh with Christians who see Jesus on every page of the Tanakh when he's not there. They simply wear glasses that have the name of Jesus printed on them. It's not their fault.

 

[Soapy]

It is almost impossible for anyone, once indoctrinated into a particular view, to read their texts a different way. I don't care what the theology is or what the text is or what the religion is. This is just typical of humans in general.

This is why I'm not harsh with Christians who see Jesus on every page of the Tanakh when he's not there. They simply wear glasses that have the name of Jesus printed on them. It's not their fault.

I guess it’s ok to feel the way you do because at the end of the day those in the ‘Whore’ will taste the punishment that is due to her (Revelations x:y)

But we who are in the truth are expected to ‘pave the way’ for unenlightened ones to follow out of ‘her’. It is our duty to be like Jonah (aside from the running away bit) to go the the spiritual Ninevenes and show them they are wrong. I myself, have been tossed of so many forums for expressing the truth but that only shows me that my quest is true.

When they hear the truth they stop up their ears like the Israelites in the wilderness and run up the mountains to throw rocks back at me... I was on a very nice forum site doing other stuff as well (Maths) and now I can’t access it nor the stuff I posted - why didn’t they just lock me out of the Christian section??

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I guess it’s ok to feel the way you do because at the end of the day those in the ‘Whore’ will taste the punishment that is due to her (Revelations x:y)

But we who are in the truth are expected to ‘pave the way’ for unenlightened ones to follow out of ‘her’. It is our duty to be like Jonah (aside from the running away bit) to go the the spiritual Ninevenes and show them they are wrong. I myself, have been tossed of so many forums for expressing the truth but that only shows me that my quest is true.

When they hear the truth they stop up their ears like the Israelites in the wilderness and run up the mountains to throw rocks back at me... I was on a very nice forum site doing other stuff as well (Maths) and now I can’t access it nor the stuff I posted - why didn’t they just lock me out of the Christian section??

Thank you Soapy. It's nice to have someone so clearly illustrate my point.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Does this then not show absolutely that trinity is based on lies, deceit, and disingenuousness.

The truth needs no embellishment.

Your understanding of the "trinity" is sadly flawed in ignorance.
In fact, you , yourself are a part of this "trinity", and don't even know it.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Your understanding of the "trinity" is sadly flawed in ignorance.
In fact, you , yourself are a part of this "trinity", and don't even know it.

OMGoodness. Trinitarianism wasn't even part of traditional Gnosticism, which greatly predated the council of Nicea.

 

[sojourner]

Does this then not show absolutely that trinity is based on lies, deceit, and disingenuousness.

The truth needs no embellishment.

Not at all! The lie and deceit is that all Christian action has always, and must always, spring only from the Bible.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

OMGoodness. Trinitarianism wasn't even part of traditional Gnosticism, which greatly predated the council of Nicea.

You are mistaken, the Roman Church just took the gnostic teaching of the True Trinity,
and perverted it, twisted and distorted it beyond recognition, like they did all the teachings of Jesus.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You are mistaken, the Roman Church just took the gnostic teaching of the True Trinity,
and perverted it, twisted and distorted it beyond recognition, like they did all the teachings of Jesus.

There was no doctrine of the trinity during the foundational years of Christianity, which was when Gnosticism had its day.

 

[Soapy]

Your understanding of the "trinity" is sadly flawed in ignorance.
In fact, you , yourself are a part of this "trinity", and don't even know it.

You, and others like you, keep on saying my doctrine is flawed but you all never show how it is flawed...

Is it possible for you to say here and now what is flawed about what I’m saying?

Please don’t post trinity creed and trinity rhetoric... say in your own words with scriptural backing - even paraphrased if you are sure of the exact words.

I am intrigued to see what you think is wrong, untrue, or made up!

Thanks in waiting.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

There was no doctrine of the trinity during the foundational years of Christianity, which was when Gnosticism had its day.

Gnosticism has no "doctrine", we just "KNOW",
that's what we do.
And the True Holy Trinity that has ALWAYS existed is the,
Father, Mother, and Child

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

You, and others like you, keep on saying my doctrine is flawed but you all never show how it is flawed...

Is it possible for you to say here and now what is flawed about what I’m saying?

Please don’t post trinity creed and trinity rhetoric... say in your own words with scriptural backing - even paraphrased if you are sure of the exact words.

I am intrigued to see what you think is wrong, untrue, or made up!

Thanks in waiting.

YOU are a "child"
YOU have a "mother"
YOU have a "father"

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You, and others like you, keep on saying my doctrine is flawed but you all never show how it is flawed...

It's very simple. Something can't be one thing and three things at the same time.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Gnosticism has no "doctrine", we just "KNOW",
that's what we do.
And the True Holy Trinity that has ALWAYS existed is the,
Father, Mother, and Child

Oh I know all about the mysterious hidden knowledge of Gnosticism. YOu guys are more arrogant than Christians, thinking you are so special.

 

[Soapy]

WhyIsThatSo said:

• You are mistaken, the Roman Church just took the gnostic teaching of the True Trinity, and perverted it, twisted and distorted it beyond recognition, like they did all the teachings of Jesus.
• ‘True Trinity’... what is ‘True Trinity’... yet another made up term from a system that cannot define itself...

Every trinitarian DEFINES HIS OWN version of trinity so that they can DENY the lie told by other Trinitarians.

Legitimately, they say:

• ‘That’s not what I believe... I have never heard of that spoken of by Trinitarians!’

Yes, because the only seemingly credible ideology they have heard about trinity is that which they made up themselves!

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Oh I know all about the mysterious hidden knowledge of Gnosticism. YOu guys are more arrogant than Christians, thinking you are so special.

Well, we did "write the book"....literally

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

WhyIsThatSo said:

• You are mistaken, the Roman Church just took the gnostic teaching of the True Trinity, and perverted it, twisted and distorted it beyond recognition, like they did all the teachings of Jesus.
• ‘True Trinity’... what is ‘True Trinity’... yet another made up term from a system that cannot define itself...

Every trinitarian DEFINES HIS OWN version of trinity so that they can DENY the lie told by other Trinitarians.

Legitimately, they say:

• ‘That’s not what I believe... I have never heard of that spoken of by Trinitarians!’

Yes, because the only seemingly credible ideology they have heard about trinity is that which they made up themselves!

The True Holy Trinity is the "family",
Mother, Father, Child