How easy is it for Trinitarians to misread the scriptures?

[sojourner]

Yes, they disclaim their own claim and create Jesus as A GOD while saying he IS GOD and that nonetheless he is the SAME GOD...

Your misunderstanding of the doctrine is abysmal.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Hmm.

Son of man or bar nashaa in Aramaic is a simple word that means "human". It is mentioned over 160 times in the whole bible, so many people are called that including Ezekiel. In the Tanakh, it is Ben Adham. A common phrase.

I don't understand why you asked me this question but yet I have honoured your question. Yet, I'm curious to know why I was asked this if you don't mind.

Peace.

Hmm.

Son of man or bar nashaa in Aramaic is a simple word that means "human". It is mentioned over 160 times in the whole bible, so many people are called that including Ezekiel. In the Tanakh, it is Ben Adham. A common phrase.

I don't understand why you asked me this question but yet I have honoured your question. Yet, I'm curious to know why I was asked this if you don't mind.

Peace.

"MAN" is a Divine Race of Being.
The "monad" that makes up "God".....is called "MAN".
Or in other words just think of it as the "Family" that the human race belongs to.

 

[Soapy]

Jesus never called Himself the "Son of God", not once.
But 29 times in Mathew, 14 times in Mark, 26 times in Luke, and 13 times in John,
Jesus referred to Himself as the "Son of Man"

WHY do you think this is so ?

Might it be excused if it were pointed out that Jesus did indeed call himself the Son of God:

• “why do you call it blasphemy when I say, ‘I am the Son of God’? After all, the Father set me apart and sent me into the world.” (John 10:36)
• If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; (John 10:37)

Jesus expresses three salient points in these verse.

1. Jesus states emphatically that he called himself ‘The Son of God’... He who is going to deny the veracity of these words is ‘AntiChrist’!!
2. Jesus states that he was SANCTIFIED / SET APART / ANOINTED / CONSECRATED by the Father. We know this is scriptural truth because we read it concerning Jesus’ baptism at the River Jordan when the ‘Oil of Gladness’ was poured out onto him - and God expresses his pleasure that this ‘Son’ should be FILLED with the FULLNESS OF HIS SPIRIT... as well as this ADOPTION DECLARATION:
   1. “For to which of the angels did God ever say, 'You are my Son; today I have become your Father'? Or again, 'I will be his Father, and he will be my Son'?” (Hebrews 1:5)
3. Jesus DEFINES what spiritual ‘Son‘ means:
   1. ‘Doing the works of the Father’. It is clear that being adopted (2:1) means that ‘Son’ is not a procreation. God is Spirit, and Spirit does not Procreate. Jesus is doing exactly what the Father directs to do so therefore he is a perfect ‘Son’. The holy angels also ‘do the works of the Father’ and are SPIRIT SONS of God... and, if anyone else of humanity were to be doing the works of the Father, they too, would be called, ‘Son of God’... as scripture states...’
      1. That they [True Believers] should be sons, and being Sons, heirs also with Christ!’

 

[firedragon]

"MAN" is a Divine Race of Being.
The "monad" that makes up "God".....is called "MAN".
Or in other words just think of it as the "Family" that the human race belongs to.

Nice. I think it's not sense, neither is that any relevant to comment you replied to, but thanks.

 

[Soapy]

Your misunderstanding of the doctrine is abysmal.

I’m NOT sorry that the truth hurts you so much!

Which part are you suggesting I am ignorant of?

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Might it be excused if it were pointed out that Jesus did indeed call himself the Son of God:

• “why do you call it blasphemy when I say, ‘I am the Son of God’? After all, the Father set me apart and sent me into the world.” (John 10:36)
• If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; (John 10:37)

Jesus expresses three salient points in these verse.

1. Jesus states emphatically that he called himself ‘The Son of God’... He who is going to deny the veracity of these words is ‘AntiChrist’!!
2. Jesus states that he was SANCTIFIED / SET APART / ANOINTED / CONSECRATED by the Father. We know this is scriptural truth because we read it concerning Jesus’ baptism at the River Jordan when the ‘Oil of Gladness’ was poured out onto him - and God expresses his pleasure that this ‘Son’ should be FILLED with the FULLNESS OF HIS SPIRIT... as well as this ADOPTION DECLARATION:
   1. “For to which of the angels did God ever say, 'You are my Son; today I have become your Father'? Or again, 'I will be his Father, and he will be my Son'?” (Hebrews 1:5)
3. Jesus DEFINES what spiritual ‘Son‘ means:
   1. ‘Doing the works of the Father’. It is clear that being adopted (2:1) means that ‘Son’ is not a procreation. God is Spirit, and Spirit does not Procreate. Jesus is doing exactly what the Father directs to do so therefore he is a perfect ‘Son’. The holy angels also ‘do the works of the Father’ and are SPIRIT SONS of God... and, if anyone else of humanity were to be doing the works of the Father, they too, would be called, ‘Son of God’... as scripture states...’
      1. That they [True Believers] should be sons, and being Sons, heirs also with Christ!’

In John 10:36, Jesus is just acknowledging what the teachers of the law were already implying when He says
He and the Father are One. And they wanted to kill Him for blasphemy.

The word "God" means "Man"......and visa versa.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Nice. I think it's not sense, neither is that any relevant to comment you replied to, but thanks.

I'm telling you the TRUTH, you can take it or leave it, doesn't matter.
The word "God" means "Man".....and visa versa.

 

[sojourner]

I’m NOT sorry that the truth hurts you so much!

Which part are you suggesting I am ignorant of?

1) Your snark is duly noted, fellow Christian.
2) You name it.

 

[Soapy]

In John 10:36, Jesus is just acknowledging what the teachers of the law were already implying when He says
He and the Father are One. And they wanted to kill Him for blasphemy.

The word "God" means "Man"......and visa versa.

In John 10:36 Jesus is TESTIFYING that ... whatever he had said to them ... he was NOT SAYING HE WAS GOD... but only that he was the SON OF GOD.

For some unwritten reason, the Jews, AS IMPLIED BY TRINITARIANS, believed that a Son was EQUAL TO THEIR FATHER. When Jesus says he and the Father are one, they wrongfully interpret that as saying he is therefore EQUAL to the Father... and worse, by being (in their eyes —- actually trinity translator eyes) it means Jesus ‘is god’.. which is completely false.

I have asked many times the questions to Trinitarians as to WHERE THEY GET THIS NOTION and have so far received NO Credible RESPONSE. As a generality, I asked, ‘What if the Father has MORE THAN ONE SON?’... again, no response YET these Trinitarians continue to make their claim regardless of absolutely any evidence.

For me, trinity has recognised that the Son is NOT EQUAL TO THE FATHER but had to present done nonsense to validate (NOT!) their position. It is CLEAR that the Son CANNOT BE equal to the Father because it is the Father who GIVES to the Son... anyone GIVEN cannot be EQUAL to he who GIVES! (Do not confuse ‘GIVE’ with ‘Give Back’!!)

Since the gospel SUGGESTS that the Jews mistook Jesus claiming ‘EQUALITY OF PURPOSE’ with the Father... (He is DOING THE WORKS OF THE FATHER... perhaps they think that if Jesus is doing the works of the Father then he MUST BE God!!! But note that Jesus tells them that: ‘The things you see me do are NOT OF MYSELF BUT OF HIM WHO SENT ME’... afterall, they did claim that ‘only God could forgive sins and Jesus forgave sins so therefore, falsely, to them, Jesus MUST BE GOD... oh dear...!!!!).

Therefore, Jesus CLARIFIED what he was saying by referring to Torah where GOD CALLED HOLY MEN OF THE PAST who also did his works (Moses, Abraham, Noah, David, Solomon, Samson, the other Judges, prophets and priests) “GODS”... So how then, Jesus said, that YOU SAY I BLASPHEME WHEN I DID NOT EVEN CALL MYSELF GOD BUT ONLY THE SON OF GOD!

How can Almighty God call holy men ‘Gods’ yet you say I am GOD when I did not even say that of myself... how is what I say blasphemy!!!
Then Jesus goes on to EXPRESS what he means by ‘SON OF GOD’... ‘Son of the Father’ (The jews called ‘God’ their ‘Father’.. so it is not a thing fantastic that Jesus should also call God, ’his Father’...

And to emphasise this, at some other time, Jesus called some of the Jews, ‘Sons of their Father’... ‘Satan’... ‘because you are doing HIS WORKS’.

How is it hard to understand BASIC CONCEPTS OF SCRIPTURES.. no wonder there is so much controversy and arguments between factions of Christianity... few only are not subject to ‘Believing the lie’!!

 

[Soapy]

1) Your snark is duly noted, fellow Christian.
2) You name it.

I am only asking for what it is that caused you to claim I do not understand the scriptures.

I notice you do not set out your objections to what I asked of you!

Can you supply the objection and I will duly set out the truth and veracity of what I am saying.

 

[Muffled]

Other people have given you answers before?

I know when I ask about the trinity etc there is a huge backlash over non-trinitarian views without even considering that the other side "makes sense" too. A lot of repetition and both sides say they read the bible.

I believe one of my greatest skills is logic which was why I was a Computer Programmer/Analyst. For some people I really have to spell it out for them because they are so illogical.

 

[Muffled]

Because you ignore the foundation and what is expedient.

5 + 5 × 5 is equal to 30 and not 50 because the rules of numbers or order of operations is more expedient than the rules of the english language of reading left to right.

All Things are Of and Originate with The Father for a reason but you refuse purpose and how we receive understanding when it comes to bible. That is why you error and your doctrine cannot prevail.

Joh 17:7 KJV Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

I believe substance matters and you don't have anything but rhetoric.

 

[Muffled]

From the OP: "Why does the Son inherit from the Father if the son is co-almighty with the Father?"

I believe the Father has no body and the Son does. So it makes sense that God has to reveal His Godliness in the Son and that could be considered an inheritance. It is misleading because people start thinking about a physical father and son and that is not the case here.

 

[firedragon]

The word "God" means "Man".....and visa versa.

No. It doesnt.

 

[sojourner]

I am only asking for what it is that caused you to claim I do not understand the scriptures.

I notice you do not set out your objections to what I asked of you!

Can you supply the objection and I will duly set out the truth and veracity of what I am saying.

You're making the mistake of arguing from sola scriptura. I don't claim that you misunderstand the texts. I claim that you misunderstand the doctrine. You're confused. Your post here is confused. I've been very clear in my arguments.

 

[sojourner]

For some unwritten reason, the Jews, AS IMPLIED BY TRINITARIANS, beloved that a Son was EQUAL TO THEIR FATHER.

I have asked many times the questions to Trinitarians as to WHERE THEY GET THIS NOTION and have so far received NO Credible RESPONSE.

Jesus (according to the bible) has all authority of heaven and earth.

As a generality, I asked, ‘What if the Father has MORE THAN ONE SON?’

Who is suggesting that might be the case, and where is this ever implied?

For me, trinity has recognised that the Son is NOT EQUAL TO THE FATHER but had to present done nonsense to validate (NOT!) their position. It is CLEAR that the Son CANNOT BE equal to the Father because it is the Father who GIVES to the Son... anyone GIVEN cannot be EQUAL to he who GIVES!

I don't know where your bread was buttered, but receivers certainly can be equal to givers.

How is it hard to understand BASIC CONCEPTS OF SCRIPTURES

Because the texts are multivalent. "Basic concepts" vary.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I believe one of my greatest skills is logic which was why I was a Computer Programmer/Analyst. For some people I really have to spell it out for them because they are so illogical.

Hm. Do you use the same criteria of logic for religious truths as you would for computers and things of that nature?

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

No. It doesnt.

"In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with God, and the WORD was God "

 

[Soapy]

I believe one of my greatest skills is logic which was why I was a Computer Programmer/Analyst. For some people I really have to spell it out for them because they are so illogical.

‘function(If {this} then {that} else {something-else} catch{all-else}finally{speak-truth})
Programmer/Application Analyst... me-too...
Requires logical and precision-style processing analysis...
Computers accept solutions to errors... humans can choose to ignore even the most obvious and clear cut solutions. If Christianity were a computer system with attendant language, it wouldn’t exist as viable as any system the program is run on would reject it. But humanity accepts and even builds its belief on the ‘wounded’ ideology of a three-ruler head which they claim is monotheistic and yet vilify other similar three co-ruler religions : beam in their eye preventing them seeing the pit they are racing to fall into.

I can’t understand why they think as they do:
- Scriptures says that God created a physical universe and set creatures in it.

He created an ‘image’ of himself in the flesh to oversee this created world and proposed one from this humanity to be ultimate ruler...

unfortunately that man, the first man, the HUMAN Father of this humanity, sinned and was therefore going unworthy (as might be expected... he was fully sinless and completely holy and so should have maintained the laws of his SPIRITUAL Father (The God that created him).

God was angry and wanted to destroy his creation but relented if another of HUMANITY could be found who was likewise FULLY SINLESS AND HOLY.

Given time none was found. So God enacted a contingency he had put in place..,

(You know all about this ... “catch{event}” - What to do in the event of an error!!)

God ‘prepared a body’ of a SECOND (and LAST) Holy snd sinless man... and just as the first man, Adam’s body was inert, unliving, so was the body prepared for the second/Last ‘Adam’.

So, noticed that the inert bodies of BOTH Adams were ENLIVENED by the Holy Spirit of the spiritusl Father... How does one assimilate the idea that the ‘SPIRIT’ of the unseen GOD is a PERSON, heaven - not even Heaven - knows!!! ‘Hell No...!’

The scriptures states clearly: ‘God breathed the breath of life into [Adam’s] nostrils AND THE MAN BECAME A LIVING SOUL... (was Adam ALIVE before the breath was put in him... no!!!)

And, the angel told Mary that the Holy Spirit of god would ‘overshadow her’ and the child to be born SHALL BE CALLED ‘Holy, the Son of the God most high’. Clearly, and wears not pagan, this Son is a Spiritual creation... not a PROCREATION (which is ‘Flesh from Flesh’ - and certainly not ‘Spirit from Spirit’ as trinitarian CREED wrongfully states... SPIRIT DOES NOT PROCREATE!!!

So, this child faithfully, completely, totally, absolutely, and reverently carries out ALL that the spiritual Father asks of him...resisting the tastiest temptations even in the face obtaining the REWARD WITHOUT THE SUFFERING he knew he WOULD have to go through - yeah, and DIE FOR... it’s the hardest thing for a truly innocent, Holy, and sinless person to DIE for the cause of all others... think of taking the flack for everyone knowing that POSSIBLY the promise of being resurrected may not be true:

• ‘Father, (I’m tempted) if there could be another way....... (recover from temptation) ... But your Will, not mine [be done]!’

All went as planned and his blood was spilt for mankind... the sin of [the first] Adam that condemned even those who had not sinned against THE LAW, was REVOKED... we are now condemned BY OUR OWN PERSONAL SIN - but the love of THE CHRIST allows those who are truly penitent to be washed clean of such sins.

And how did this second/Last Adam do such miraculous things... we know that the Holy Spirit is the giver of gifts of powers. Jesus, being sinless, received the fullness of these gifts of powers, so, as Phil 2 says, he was ‘in the form of God’.

Now here, Trinitarians lunge at claiming Jesus WAS GOD... so yet again, Jesus, being compared TO GOD, is stated wrongfully as BEING GOD... how.., in a programming environment that is a clear and obvious error. An Integer is not a decimal. An integer is absolute single or multiple unit value... a decimal, even with the a value EQUIVALENT to an integer, is NOT AN INTEGER...

‘5.00’, being a Decimal, is NOT the SAME AS an equivalent, let alone ‘IS’ an INTEGER of value ‘5’.
Of course, NON-Mathematicians will argue that they are because they don’t understand the difference - which is: There is no partiality in an integer... it is absolute unit value. But a decimal has myriad partialities.

Jesus is the decimal : God, the Father, is the Integer...

• Jesus CHANGES MANY TIMES during his life on earth and BECOMES other values: a child in learning, a teenager as scholar, an evangelist as an adult, an immortal as a resurrected, a Spirit in Heaven (shedding his human body), a GOD for a while (setting the world to rights - sitting AS GOD), a Judge at the end of time, and the ruler and king over creation at the end... the REWARD that would have been given to the first Adam, given to the second... ‘The first sins and another is brought up (in position) to replace him.

Scriptures gives us so many examples it’s so weird that they are rejected by Trinitarians - but I understand why they do this.... they must to maintain the disingenuousness of their claims:

• Cain was first and sinned - Seth was brought up to replace him as ‘most beloved’ of Adam, his human Father, also of his spiritual Father: God
• Ishmael was first for Abraham - Abraham loved Ishmael but Ismael sinned against his brother, Isaac. Ishmael was ‘sent away’, losing his place, and Isaac was brought up to replace him.. even to it being claimed that Isaac was Abraham’s ONLY SON!!
• Esau was first for Isaac, but Esau sinned by giving away his birthright... Jacob was ‘brought up’ to replace him as ‘most beloved of the Father’ - became ‘Firstborn’ of Isaac
• Check out others:
  • Joseph
  • David (what did his older brothers do)
  • Solomon (what did his older brothers do?)
  • (Saul... first king, what happened to him..!)
  • Jews, initially the favoured nation of God, replaced by all comers, because Jews sinned by refusing Jesus the Messiah

• Adam sinned and Jesus is brought up to replace him

Is it really hard to see the analogies (subroutines) sprinkled throughout scriptures?

Joseph, sitting AS PHAROAH to manage the physical Famine... Jesus, sitting as God, managing the spiritual famine.
Neither WERE the figurehead they sat in for... ‘Except for my throne, though art Pharoah!’
‘All things are under his feet, excepting him who put all things under his feet!

I hope I have shown you (plural: all who read this) the beginning through to the end and why Jesus is man, holy and sinless man... how he replaced the first man, Adam, because the first sinned and another [Adam] was brought up to replace him.
I hope I’ve shown you why the birth of Jesus was a virgin birth in that the seed of a woman was the basis for the ‘body’ of the second Adam and the dust of the earth for the first man. And that the inert bodies of both were ENLIVENED by the Holy Spirit of the almighty : the Holy Spirit of God.
I hope I’ve shown you all that Jesus’ power was ‘of the Father’ as Jesus says, ‘the things I say are not my words but those of him who sent me.. ‘ similar to ‘the works I fi are not mine but of him who sent me’... this pricing it was by means of the Holy Spirit of the Father and not Jesus personally. I shied you’re that the meaning of ‘Son’, spiritually is not a procreated offspring but anyone who does the works of him who gives him the works to do... hence a son of Satan is anyone who does as Satan directs them ... but yet no one ever believes that Satan procreated them - we can see it is a spiritual Son! (Read Philemon 1 about Paul and runaway slave, Onesimus!!)
I’ve shown you that the reward for Jesus living a sinless life anc dying to save mankind from the sin of the first Adam was to sit as king over creation, the most beloved of the Father, God... the ‘Firstborn of creation’ - the most beloved of all created beings!!!
I have shown that Jesus sits AS GOD to oversee the spiritual famine until it is over...
and that this is analogised by Joseph sitting AS PHAROAH in Egypt overseeing the physical famine.... until it was over...

I can write far more but this should be enough as I know the mass majority will simply ignore the truth of this exposition.

But the more I write the more it may be seen by even a single believer.

 

[Soapy]

Hm. Do you use the same criteria of logic for religious truths as you would for computers and things of that nature?

Writing a computer program requires the writer to employ absolute integrity and observe all criteria’s concerning the language and structure of the algorithm otherwise the program will fail miserably.

Trinity does not like a junior school kid playing with blocks of code that work only in a few places but is senseless in the greater scope of the system it is building.

If I ask a trinitarian to do meta data of trinity it would be so messy it would be just as Trinitarians say themselves:

• UNFATHOMABLE IN CONCEPT
• INCOMPREHENSIBLE IN ITS UNDERSTANDING
• A MYSTERY