How does one know what comes after death if they haven't died yet?

[outhouse]

What about ghosts and Mediums, some mediums can give accurate descriptions of a deceased decendant with names in the first hand and are even able to deliver accurate personal messages. Some Mediums can draw accurate pictures of a strangers deceased relative leading me at least to believe there may be demons if not a spiritual afterlife. Also possessions are accurate and are factually proven to have occurred in some cases with people witnessing the image of the demon.

if this was true there would be a line a million miles LONG and people giving every penny they have to be able to speak to long lost love ones.

what your talking about is a sham.

as far as ghost and spirits, i dont know. the crap on TV is horse pucky though.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Interesting (= Likewise with Christianity a person is dead until Judgement day. (edit) I should say many Christians debate that depending on their sect.

Well it's not that they believed a person was dead until judgment, since the Egyptians didn't believe in a ressurection. They just believed only certain people were good enough to attain the Duat, and had varying views about what happens to the personal soul if it doesn't attain to the afterlife.

Most believed it was destroyed forever, snuffed out of existence. Very few of the ancients believed in rebirth, but it's a more majority view now.

 

[emptybe]

if this was true there would be a line a million miles LONG and people giving every penny they have to be able to speak to long lost love ones.

what your talking about is a sham.

as far as ghost and spirits, i dont know. the crap on TV is horse pucky though.

No they wouldn't, because most people think like you, and it's easy to disregard.

Edit: Or they blame it on Satan

 

[bobhikes]

No they wouldn't, because most people think like you, and it's easy to disregard.

Edit: Or they blame it on Satan

I'ld have to agree, I do not want to speak to a dead relative ever.

 

[BruceDLimber]

What do they say about it?

Please see below.

And more importantly, what leads you to conclude that if the Baha'i scriptures say something about an afterlife, that it is true?

Because I've studied, investigated, researched, and observed the Baha'i Faith and its scriptures extensively and in detail and have found nothing false about either!
This is since coupled with over 39 years' experience as a Baha'i during which I have NOT ONCE found any reason to regret this decision! It therefore stands as the most reliable set of religious statements I've ever encountered.

As to the Next Life,

"Bahá'u'lláh and &'Abdu'l-Bahá regard the descriptions of Heaven and Hell given in some of the older religious writings as symbolic, like the Biblical story of the Creation, and not as literally true. According to Them, Heaven is the state of perfection, and Hell that of imperfection; Heaven is harmony with God's will and with our fellows, and Hell is the want of such harmony; Heaven is the condition of spiritual life, and Hell that of spiritual death. A man may be either in Heaven or in Hell while still in the body. The joys of Heaven are spiritual joys; and the pains of Hell consist in the deprivation of these joys."
―Baha'u'llah and the New Era pp. 190-1

From the Baha'i scriptures:

“Thou hast asked Me whether man, as apart from the Prophets of God and His chosen ones, will retain, after his physical death, the self-same individuality, personality, consciousness, and understanding that characterize his life in this world. If this should be the case, how is it, thou hast observed, that whereas such slight injuries to his mental faculties as fainting and severe illness deprive him of his understanding and consciousness, his death, which must involve the decomposition of his body and the dissolution of its elements, is powerless to destroy that understanding and extinguish that consciousness? How can any one imagine that man's consciousness and personality will be maintained, when the very instruments necessary to their existence and function will have completely disintegrated?

“Know thou that the soul of man is exalted above, and is independent of all infirmities of body or mind. That a sick person showeth signs of weakness is due to the hindrances that interpose themselves between his soul and his body, for the soul itself remaineth unaffected by any bodily ailments. Consider the light of the lamp. Though an external object may interfere with its radiance, the light itself continueth to shine with undiminished power. In like manner, every malady afflicting the body of man is an impediment that preventeth the soul from manifesting its inherent might and power. When it leaveth the body, however, it will evince such ascendancy, and reveal such influence as no force on earth can equal. Every pure, every refined and sanctified soul will be endowed with tremendous power, and shall rejoice with exceeding gladness.”

-- (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, pp. 153-154)


“And now concerning thy question whether human souls continue to be conscious one of another after their separation from the body. Know thou that the souls of the people of Baha, who have entered and been established within the Crimson Ark, shall associate and commune intimately one with another, and shall be so closely associated in their lives, their aspirations, their aims and strivings as to be even as one soul. They are indeed the ones who are well-informed, who are keen-sighted, and who are endued with understanding. Thus hath it been decreed by Him Who is the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.

“The people of Baha, who are the inmates of the Ark of God, are, one and all, well aware of one another's state and condition, and are united in the bonds of intimacy and fellowship. Such a state, however, must depend upon their faith and their conduct. They that are of the same grade and station are fully aware of one another's capacity, character, accomplishments and merits. They that are of a lower grade, however, are incapable of comprehending adequately the station, or of estimating the merits, of those that rank above them. Each shall receive his share from thy Lord. Blessed is the man that hath turned his face towards God, and walked steadfastly in His love, until his soul hath winged its flight unto God, the Sovereign Lord of all, the Most Powerful, the Ever-Forgiving, the All-Merciful.

“The souls of the infidels, however, shall -- and to this I bear witness -- when breathing their last be made aware of the good things that have escaped them, and shall bemoan their plight, and shall humble themselves before God. They shall continue doing so after the separation of their souls from their bodies.

“It is clear and evident that all men shall, after their physical death, estimate the worth of their deeds, and realize all that their hands have wrought.”

-- (Baha'u'llah, Ibid., pp. 169-171)


“And now concerning thy question regarding the soul of man and its survival after death. Know thou of a truth that the soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to progress until it attaineth the presence of God, in a state and condition which neither the revolution of ages and centuries, nor the changes and chances of this world, can alter. It will endure as long as the Kingdom of God, His sovereignty, His dominion and power will endure. It will manifest the signs of God and His attributes, and will reveal His loving kindness and bounty. The movement of My Pen is stilled when it attempteth to befittingly describe the loftiness and glory of so exalted a station. The honor with which the Hand of Mercy will invest the soul is such as no tongue can adequately reveal, nor any other earthly agency describe. Blessed is the soul which, at the hour of its separation from the body, is sanctified from the vain imaginings of the peoples of the world. Such a soul liveth and moveth in accordance with the Will of its Creator, and entereth the all-highest Paradise. The Maids of Heaven, inmates of the loftiest mansions, will circle around it, and the Prophets of God and His chosen ones will seek its companionship. With them that soul will freely converse, and will recount unto them that which it hath been made to endure in the path of God, the Lord of all worlds. If any man be told that which hath been ordained for such a soul in the worlds of God, the Lord of the throne on high and of earth below, his whole being will instantly blaze out in his great longing to attain that most exalted, that sanctified and resplendent station.... The nature of the soul after death can never be described, nor is it meet and permissible to reveal its whole character to the eyes of men. The Prophets and Messengers of God have been sent down for the sole purpose of guiding mankind to the straight Path of Truth. The purpose underlying Their revelation hath been to educate all men, that they may, at the hour of death, ascend, in the utmost purity and sanctity and with absolute detachment, to the throne of the Most High.”

-- (Baha'u'llah, Ibid., pp. 155-157)
[continues]

 

[BruceDLimber]

[continued]
"You question about eternal life and the entrance into the Kingdom. The outer expression used for the Kingdom is heaven; but this is a comparison and similitude, not a reality or fact, for the Kingdom is not a material place; it is sanctified from time and place. It is a spiritual world, a divine world, and the center of the Sovereignty of God; it is freed from body and that which is corporeal, and it is purified and sanctified from the imaginations of the human world. To be limited to place is a property of bodies and not of spirits. Place and time surround the body, not the mind and spirit. Observe that the body of man is confined to a small place; it covers only two spans of earth. But the spirit and mind of man travel to all countries and regions−even through the limitless space of the heavens−surround all that exists, and make discoveries in the exalted spheres and infinite distances. This is because the spirit has no place; it is placeless; and for the spirit the earth and the heaven are as one since it makes discoveries in both. But the body is limited to a place and does not know that which is beyond it.
"For life is of two kinds: that of the body and that of the spirit. The life of the body is material life, but the life of the spirit expresses the existence of the Kingdom, which consists in receiving the Spirit of God and becoming vivified by the breath of the Holy Spirit. Although the material life has existence, it is pure nonexistence and absolute death for the holy saints. So man exists, and this stone also exists, but what a difference between the existence of man and that of the stone! Though the stone exists, in relation to the existence of man it is nonexistent.
The meaning of eternal life is the gift of the Holy Spirit, as the flower receives the gift of the season, the air, and the breezes of spring. Consider: this flower had life in the beginning like the life of the mineral; but by the coming of the season of spring, of the bounty of the clouds of the springtime, and of the heat of the glowing sun, it attained to another life of the utmost freshness, delicacy and fragrance. The first life of the flower, in comparison to the second life, is death.
"The meaning is that the life of the Kingdom is the life of the spirit, the eternal life, and that it is purified from place, like the spirit of man which has no place. For if you examine the human body, you will not find a special spot or locality for the spirit, for it has never had a place; it is immaterial. It has a connection with the body like that of the sun with this mirror. The sun is not within the mirror, but it has a connection with the mirror.
"In the same way the world of the Kingdom is sanctified from everything that can be perceived by the eye or by the other senses - hearing, smell, taste or touch. The mind which is in man, the existence of which is recognized - where is it in him? If you examine the body with the eye, the ear or the other senses, you will not find it; nevertheless, it exists. Therefore, the mind has no place, but it is connected with the brain. The Kingdom is also like this. In the same way love has no place, but it is connected with the heart; so the Kingdom has no place, but is connected with man.
"Entrance into the Kingdom is through the love of God, through detachment, through holiness and chastity, through truthfulness, purity, steadfastness, faithfulness and the sacrifice of life.
"These explanations show that man is immortal and lives eternally. For those who believe in God, who have love of God, and faith, life is excellent - that is, it is eternal; but to those souls who are veiled from God, although they have life, it is dark, and in comparison with the life of believers it is nonexistence.
"For example, the eye and the nail are living; but the life of the nail in relation to the life of the eye is nonexistent. This stone and this man both exist; but the stone in relation to the existence of man is nonexistent; it has no being; for when man dies, and his body is destroyed and annihilated, it becomes like stone and earth. Therefore, it is clear that although the mineral exists, in relation to man it is nonexistent.
"In the same way, the souls who are veiled from God, although they exist in this world and in the world after death, are, in comparison with the holy existence of the children of the Kingdom of God, nonexisting and separated from God."
−(`Abdu'l-Baha: Some Answered Questions, Pages: 241-243)
[He also speaks about our status changing in the next world, and what's required for it.]
[continues]

 

[BruceDLimber]

[continued]
"When they [men] are delivered through the light of faith from the darkness of these vices, and become illuminated with the radiance of the sun of reality, and ennobled with all the virtues, they esteem this the greatest reward, and they know it to be the true paradise. In the same way they consider that the spiritual punishment ... is to be subjected to the world of nature, to be veiled from God, to be brutal and ignorant, to fall into carnal lusts, to be absorbed in animal frailties, to be characterized with dark qualities ... these are the greatest punishments and tortures....

"...The rewards of the other world are the perfections and the peace obtained in the spiritual worlds after leaving this world ... the spiritual graces, the various spiritual gifts in the Kingdom of God, the gaining of the desires of the heart and the soul, and the meeting of God in the world of eternity. In the same way the punishments of the other world ... consist in being deprived of the special divine blessings and the absolute bounties, and falling into the lowest degrees of existence. He who is deprived of these divine favours, although he continues after death, is considered as dead by the people of truth.

"The wealth of the other world is nearness to God. Consequently it is certain that those who are near the Divine Court are allowed to intercede, and this intercession is approved by God....

"It is even possible that the condition of those who have died in sin and unbelief may become changed; that is to say, they may become the object of pardon through the bounty of God, not through His justice; for bounty is giving without desert, and justice is giving what is deserved. As we have the power to pray for these souls here, so likewise we shall possess the same power in the other world, which is the Kingdom of God.... Therefore in that world also they can make progress. As here they can receive light by their supplications, there also they can plead for forgiveness, and receive light through entreaties and supplications.

"Both before and after putting off this material form, there is progress in perfection, but not in state.... There is no other being higher than a perfect man. But man when he has reached this state can still make progress in perfections but not in state, because there is no state higher than that of a perfect man to which he can transfer himself. He only progresses in the state of humanity, for the human perfections are infinite. Thus however learned a man may be, we can imagine one more learned.

"Hence, as the perfections of humanity are endless, man can also make progress in perfections after leaving this world."
―Some Answered Questions, pp. 260-274 passim

And finally, Baha'u'llah says:

“When I contemplate, O my God, the relationship that bindeth me to Thee, I am moved to proclaim to all created things ‘verily I am God!’; and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!”
—Baha'u'llah, p. 26

 

[EverChanging]

ok so if its past lives then the bible has none of it right, and if the population grows then it cant all be reincarnation. So for that to be right means it is not.

I do not believe in reincarnation, either, but your argument does not suffice: there could be more souls than humans or it could be that only some souls are reincarnated and the rest are created at conception or birth, etc. Not that that makes reincarnation any more likely, but it does answer your argument.

As for near-death experiences, I have written about those on at least a couple of threads on these forums. They are real experiences and might even be enlightening, but they are not evidence of life after death.

I have no belief in an individualized afterlife or non-material soul. I don't particularly hope for anything different.

 

[FluentYank3825]

A person who helped to change history can live forever through followers. Elvis Presley is one of those. Though deceased for more than 30 years now, he still has many that follow him and his music, with many never even knowing him. I believe that's the same with jesus and the flock that follow his story.

And let's not forget one other thing that Jesus and Elvis both had in common: Their followers called them kings.

 

[FluentYank3825]

Please see below.

"Bahá'u'lláh and &'Abdu'l-Bahá regard the descriptions of Heaven and Hell given in some of the older religious writings as symbolic, like the Biblical story of the Creation, and not as literally true. According to Them, Heaven is the state of perfection, and Hell that of imperfection; Heaven is harmony with God's will and with our fellows, and Hell is the want of such harmony; Heaven is the condition of spiritual life, and Hell that of spiritual death. A man may be either in Heaven or in Hell while still in the body. The joys of Heaven are spiritual joys; and the pains of Hell consist in the deprivation of these joys."
―Baha'u'llah and the New Era pp. 190-1]

I find this perspective on Hell very plausible, more so than the images of fire and brimstone that have graced much of Christian folklore and superstition. I like how it focuses on life in the present and not what will happen after our lives end on earth; I find myself always feeling like Hell when I do stupid, imperfect things.

 

[EverChanging]

I find this perspective on Hell very plausible, more so than the images of fire and brimstone that have graced much of Christian folklore and superstition. I like how it focuses on life in the present and not what will happen after our lives end on earth; I find myself always feeling like Hell when I do stupid, imperfect things.

I relate to that more, too. Also, as one priest told me about the Eastern Orthodox -- he wasn't Orthodox, so correct me if he was wrong -- to the righteous, they experience God as a flame of love, but those resisting God experience it as the flames of hell.