How do we know the Bible was not written by demons?

[MJFlores]

That doesn't make sense to me from what I read from verse 16 because it says the kings of the earth and every slave and free man. This would extend beyond believers, as it seems that the writer intended believers to know that it will take place in the future but everyone would be involved in carrying the prophesy out.

I believe we don't need a roll call for this. Just as I have mentioned those are prophecies.
Those who people who participated in World War I are being referred to.

You might suggest - "Holy Toledo, the Chinese slave guy named Fu, from Wuhan China, didn't participate in World War 1 together with his friends Chu and Bu because they were so tied up and there were a lot of people in China who did not join World War 1. So the prophecy verse isn't true."

If we take prophecies literally then we really have to move people in Asia back then to join the trenches.
Including the Aboriginal people in Australia and the Cannibals of Papua New Guinea. Because when we say everybody - it has to be strict and literal. We have to scrape the bottom of the barrel so everyone would be spending winter in 1914-1918, half naked and dodging those explosions and mustard gas.

Have you heard of Hyperbole? It is used in literary works, poetry and also used in the Bible.

Hyperbole is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. In rhetoric, it is also sometimes known as auxesis. In poetry and oratory, it emphasizes, evokes strong feelings, and creates strong impressions. As a figure of speech, it is usually not meant to be taken literally.

Yes. I was meaning that the church is a harlot who commits adultery in the figurative sense. Marriage was a term applied to Israel and then Christs followers which was used to express their devotion to God. When they are said to commit adultery, it is an expression used to express their disloyalty to God and turning to foreign nations or religions, as used in many old Testament prophecies. I was referring to the idea that the Catholic Church was started by people who were married, devoted, to God and then they committed adultery, became disloyal, to God. So I agree with you on this.

Now I remember. You are right.

May I add that the Church which calls itself

This term is most often used among Roman Catholics as Holy Mother Church.[5] The Church is considered to be a mother to her members because she is the Bride of Christ,[6] and all other churches have had their origin or derived from her. Another term used in the Catechism is the title "Mater et Magistra" (Mother and Teacher).[7] Pope John XXIII made this the title of his encyclical celebrating the seventieth year after Leo XIII's groundbreaking social encyclical, explaining that in this Mother and Teacher all nations "should find ... their own completeness in a higher order of living."[8] Pope Francis said:[9]

The Church is our mother. She is our "Holy Mother Church" that is generated through our baptism, makes us grow up in her community and has that motherly attitude, of meekness and goodness: Our Mother Mary and our Mother Church know how to caress their children and show tenderness. To think of the Church without that motherly feeling is to think of a rigid association, an association without human warmth, an orphan.[10]

Mother church - Wikipedia

What qualifies as a Saint? Would people like the Waldenses qualify?

According to the dictionary: A saint is a person who is recognized as having an exceptional degree of holiness or likeness or closeness to God. However, the use of the term "saint" depends on the context and denomination.

I believe you need something like US$ 50,000 more or less for the Vatican to declare a person a saint. And they have a check list for that. After which Catholics would start to venerate / worship his relics and statues and build buildings in honor of that saint.

I do not believe in saints. They are dead people and they do not intercede for the living. They are not to be worshiped and their bodies should be put to rest.

What I believe, instead of saints, are chosen people of God - messengers, angels [which is an office like John the Baptist and Apostle Paul]. Not saints.

Now it is not unusual for people to kill the messengers of God. The people of Jerusalem did it and people who tried to spread the Gospel of Christ by translating the Bible to a more understandable language also suffered persecution and death in the hands of the wicked.

The Bloody History of Bible Translators
The Bloody History of Bible Translators - Los Angeles Review of Books

And who was responsible for the killing?

And as the Bible said:

Revelation 18:4-8 New International Version (NIV)
Then I heard another voice from heaven say:

“‘Come out of her, my people,’
so that you will not share in her sins,
so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
for her sins are piled up to heaven,
and God has remembered her crimes.
Give back to her as she has given;
pay her back double for what she has done.
Pour her a double portion from her own cup.
Give her as much torment and grief
as the glory and luxury she gave herself.
In her heart she boasts,
‘I sit enthroned as queen.
I am not a widow;
I will never mourn.’
Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her:
death, mourning and famine.
She will be consumed by fire,
for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.

I believe we both know who that is and that is why I believe in the Bible.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I believe we don't need a roll call for this. Just as I have mentioned those are prophecies.
Those who people who participated in World War I are being referred to.

You might suggest - "Holy Toledo, the Chinese slave guy named Fu, from Wuhan China, didn't participate in World War 1 together with his friends Chu and Bu because they were so tied up and there were a lot of people in China who did not join World War 1. So the prophecy verse isn't true."

If we take prophecies literally then we really have to move people in Asia back then to join the trenches.
Including the Aboriginal people in Australia and the Cannibals of Papua New Guinea. Because when we say everybody - it has to be strict and literal. We have to scrape the bottom of the barrel so everyone would be spending winter in 1914-1918, half naked and dodging those explosions and mustard gas.

View attachment 39853View attachment 39854

Have you heard of Hyperbole? It is used in literary works, poetry and also used in the Bible.

Hyperbole is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. In rhetoric, it is also sometimes known as auxesis. In poetry and oratory, it emphasizes, evokes strong feelings, and creates strong impressions. As a figure of speech, it is usually not meant to be taken literally.

Saying that it is hyperbole would be an assumption, as the intent of the author could be hyperbole or literal. If the author did intend it to be literal then the prophecy wouldn't be fulfilled. I also understand that even if it is hyperbole then every person doesn't have to be hiding in fear, but certainly the part about people hiding because they fear the wrath of the true God would be the reason. So I still do not see the prophecy as fulfilled.

According to the dictionary: A saint is a person who is recognized as having an exceptional degree of holiness or likeness or closeness to God. However, the use of the term "saint" depends on the context and denomination.

I believe you need something like US$ 50,000 more or less for the Vatican to declare a person a saint. And they have a check list for that. After which Catholics would start to venerate / worship his relics and statues and build buildings in honor of that saint.

View attachment 39849

View attachment 39850

I do not believe in saints. They are dead people and they do not intercede for the living. They are not to be worshiped and their bodies should be put to rest.

What I believe, instead of saints, are chosen people of God - messengers, angels [which is an office like John the Baptist and Apostle Paul]. Not saints.

Now it is not unusual for people to kill the messengers of God. The people of Jerusalem did it and people who tried to spread the Gospel of Christ by translating the Bible to a more understandable language also suffered persecution and death in the hands of the wicked.

View attachment 39852

The Bloody History of Bible Translators
The Bloody History of Bible Translators - Los Angeles Review of Books

And who was responsible for the killing?

And as the Bible said:

Revelation 18:4-8 New International Version (NIV)
Then I heard another voice from heaven say:

“‘Come out of her, my people,’
so that you will not share in her sins,
so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
for her sins are piled up to heaven,
and God has remembered her crimes.
Give back to her as she has given;
pay her back double for what she has done.
Pour her a double portion from her own cup.
Give her as much torment and grief
as the glory and luxury she gave herself.
In her heart she boasts,
‘I sit enthroned as queen.
I am not a widow;
I will never mourn.’
Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her:
death, mourning and famine.
She will be consumed by fire,
for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.

I believe we both know who that is and that is why I believe in the Bible.

The word saints is an old word used to describe the holy ones and the Catholic Church.

Even if your interpretation of those prophecies are true, that just gives evidence for parts of the book being true, and only applies to one book, which is the book of Revelation. I don't see how this would bring a person to believe all the other books as well.

 

[MJFlores]

Saying that it is hyperbole would be an assumption, as the intent of the author could be hyperbole or literal. If the author did intend it to be literal then the prophecy wouldn't be fulfilled. I also understand that even if it is hyperbole then every person doesn't have to be hiding in fear, but certainly the part about people hiding because they fear the wrath of the true God would be the reason. So I still do not see the prophecy as fulfilled.

The author is God. You may say that the prophecies are not fulfilled - that is a matter of opinion. But we are just exploring the 6th seal - I have not mentioned the rest of the seals 1 to 5 - where the heck was that and the 7th in relation to the 6th. And the order of events.

The word saints is an old word used to describe the holy ones and the Catholic Church.

Even if your interpretation of those prophecies are true, that just gives evidence for parts of the book being true, and only applies to one book, which is the book of Revelation. I don't see how this would bring a person to believe all the other books as well.

Yes the word saint/s is as Catholic as you can get. It is also about the infallibility of the pope [the guy can't make a mistake - really?] Don't you know that there are a couple of saints removed from the Catholic calendar / feasts days? Who is fallible then, the pope who canonize a dead guy to be a saint or the pope who removed the dead guy from the saint roster?

The Catholic Church removed 93 saints from the universal calendar and revoked their feast days in 1969 when Pope Paul VI revised the canon of saints and determined that some of the names had only ever been alive as legends or not enough was known about them to determine their status.Apr 26, 2014
https://abcnews.go.com/International/saint-saint-kind-demoted/story?id=23477573
Once a Saint, Always a Saint? Kind Of -- Unless You're ...

How about those people in the past who died and who have spent their devotion to a saint that did not exist?
Their devotion, their money just simply went to - nothingness?
What does the Bible have to say about this?

2 Timothy 4:4 Good News Translation (GNT)
They will turn away from listening to the truth and give their attention to legends.

Was that a fluke or what?
Yep our discussion was the Book of Revelation how about other books?

There is a bible prophecy mentioned by apostle Paul of something that will happen in the last days.
Last days is another term [hyperbole because it could take a couple of years or centuries] to designate the ends of the earth - earth's final days.

2 Peter 3:8 Good News Translation (GNT)
But do not forget one thing, my dear friends! There is no difference in the Lord's sight between one day and a thousand years; to him the two are the same.

Now back to the last times [days]....

1 Timothy 4:1-4 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

Now the Spirit manifestly saith, that in the last times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to spirits of error, and doctrines of devils,

Speaking lies in hypocrisy, and having their conscience seared,

Forbidding to marry, to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving by the faithful, and by them that have known the truth.

For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be rejected that is received with thanksgiving:

The earliest textual evidence of the forbidding of marriage to clerics and the duty of those already married to abstain from sexual contact with their wives is in the fourth-century decrees of the Synod of Elvira and the later Council of Carthage (390). According to some writers, this presumed a previous norm, which was being flouted in practice.[24]

• Synod of Elvira (c. 305)

(Canon 33): "It is decided that marriage be altogether prohibited to bishops, priests, and deacons, or to all clerics placed in the ministry, and that they keep away from their wives and not beget children; whoever does this shall be deprived of the honor of the clerical office."

• Council of Carthage (390)

(Canon 3): "It is fitting that the holy bishops and priests of God as well as the Levites, i.e. those who are in the service of the divine sacraments, observe perfect continence, so that they may obtain in all simplicity what they are asking from God; what the Apostles taught and what antiquity itself observed, let us also endeavour to keep.... It pleases us all that bishop, priest and deacon, guardians of purity, abstain from conjugal intercourse with their wives, so that those who serve at the altar may keep a perfect chastity."

Although previously the USCCB has declared that "the age of fasting is from the completion of the twenty-second year to the beginning of the sixtieth.", the USCCB page quoted above also references a "Complementary Norm" in its "More Information" section explaining the lower minimum age of 18. Nonetheless, the following summary may also be considered applicable by some US Catholics:

In accordance with canon 1253 of the 1983 Code of Canon Law, the USCCB has also allowed[32] that some other form of penance for the traditional abstinence on all of the Fridays of the year, except for those Fridays in Lent, fulfills the obligation of penance.[32]

These rules and others cited above may be interpreted by some as implying alternative ages to the above common standard as follows:

• On Ash Wednesday, Good Friday, and all Fridays of Lent: Everyone of age 21 and up must abstain from consuming meat.
• On Ash Wednesday and Good Friday: Everyone of age 22 to 58 must fast.

These things are very familiar to all Catholics and former Catholics [like me].
And that is not from the Book of Revelations

 

[Samael_Khan]

The author is God. You may say that the prophecies are not fulfilled - that is a matter of opinion. But we are just exploring the 6th seal - I have not mentioned the rest of the seals 1 to 5 - where the heck was that and the 7th in relation to the 6th. And the order of events.

Actually, we have no idea who authored the many books of the Bible and we do not know if one being guided the whole process, nevermind whether a god actually did it.

Yes the word saint/s is as Catholic as you can get. It is also about the infallibility of the pope [the guy can't make a mistake - really?] Don't you know that there are a couple of saints removed from the Catholic calendar / feasts days? Who is fallible then, the pope who canonize a dead guy to be a saint or the pope who removed the dead guy from the saint roster?

The Catholic Church removed 93 saints from the universal calendar and revoked their feast days in 1969 when Pope Paul VI revised the canon of saints and determined that some of the names had only ever been alive as legends or not enough was known about them to determine their status.Apr 26, 2014
Once a Saint, Always a Saint? Kind Of -- Unless You're ...

How about those people in the past who died and who have spent their devotion to a saint that did not exist?
Their devotion, their money just simply went to - nothingness?
What does the Bible have to say about this?

2 Timothy 4:4 Good News Translation (GNT)
They will turn away from listening to the truth and give their attention to legends.

Was that a fluke or what?
Yep our discussion was the Book of Revelation how about other books?

There is a bible prophecy mentioned by apostle Paul of something that will happen in the last days.
Last days is another term [hyperbole because it could take a couple of years or centuries] to designate the ends of the earth - earth's final days.

2 Peter 3:8 Good News Translation (GNT)
But do not forget one thing, my dear friends! There is no difference in the Lord's sight between one day and a thousand years; to him the two are the same.

Now back to the last times [days]....

1 Timothy 4:1-4 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

Now the Spirit manifestly saith, that in the last times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to spirits of error, and doctrines of devils,

Speaking lies in hypocrisy, and having their conscience seared,

Forbidding to marry, to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving by the faithful, and by them that have known the truth.

For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be rejected that is received with thanksgiving:

The earliest textual evidence of the forbidding of marriage to clerics and the duty of those already married to abstain from sexual contact with their wives is in the fourth-century decrees of the Synod of Elvira and the later Council of Carthage (390). According to some writers, this presumed a previous norm, which was being flouted in practice.[24]

• Synod of Elvira (c. 305)

(Canon 33): "It is decided that marriage be altogether prohibited to bishops, priests, and deacons, or to all clerics placed in the ministry, and that they keep away from their wives and not beget children; whoever does this shall be deprived of the honor of the clerical office."

• Council of Carthage (390)

(Canon 3): "It is fitting that the holy bishops and priests of God as well as the Levites, i.e. those who are in the service of the divine sacraments, observe perfect continence, so that they may obtain in all simplicity what they are asking from God; what the Apostles taught and what antiquity itself observed, let us also endeavour to keep.... It pleases us all that bishop, priest and deacon, guardians of purity, abstain from conjugal intercourse with their wives, so that those who serve at the altar may keep a perfect chastity."

Although previously the USCCB has declared that "the age of fasting is from the completion of the twenty-second year to the beginning of the sixtieth.", the USCCB page quoted above also references a "Complementary Norm" in its "More Information" section explaining the lower minimum age of 18. Nonetheless, the following summary may also be considered applicable by some US Catholics:

In accordance with canon 1253 of the 1983 Code of Canon Law, the USCCB has also allowed[32] that some other form of penance for the traditional abstinence on all of the Fridays of the year, except for those Fridays in Lent, fulfills the obligation of penance.[32]

These rules and others cited above may be interpreted by some as implying alternative ages to the above common standard as follows:

• 
  
  
  • On Ash Wednesday, Good Friday, and all Fridays of Lent: Everyone of age 21 and up must abstain from consuming meat.
  • On Ash Wednesday and Good Friday: Everyone of age 22 to 58 must fast.

These things are very familiar to all Catholics and former Catholics [like me].
And that is not from the Book of Revelations

"Popes Gone Bad" is an amusing topic for me:

The Bad Popes - Wikipedia

I have noted those similarities as well, having been raised as a catholic in the beginning of my youth. I do read the abstaining from sex and meat to be a general sign disqualifying certain groups.

Question:

Do you ever look at other interpretations of the Bible and its prophecies?

 

[MJFlores]

Actually, we have no idea who authored the many books of the Bible and we do not know if one being guided the whole process, nevermind whether a god actually did it.

THE BIBLE HAS been the basis of faith of countless people in Christendom. It is the fountainhead of hope and inspiration of those who believe in the Almighty as introduced by the Lord Jesus Christ. However, how are the words of God came to us? The words of God came to us through:

(1) Revelation
(2) Inspiration
(3) Canonization
(4) Transmission
(5) Illumination




REVELATION
God Revealed His Words in Various Ways and in Various Times

How did God reveal His words to man? God spoke at various times and indifferent ways, as is written in

Hebrews 1:1-2:

“God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;” (Heb. 1:1-2, NKJV)

God revealed his words to men in various times – from the Patriarchal era, to the era of the Prophets and the Christian era. The era of the fathers or patriarchs was from the time of the first man created by God to the beginning of the time of the prophets of ancient Israel. The era of the prophets ended with the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ, which was also the beginning of the last dispensation of time, the Christian era. In every dispensation of time mentioned, God spoke to His people in various ways.

God revealed His words through the following:

(1) God Himself spoke to His servants like Adam (Gen. 2:16-17), Noah (Gen. 6:13), and Abraham (Gen. 15:1);
(2) God revealed His words through angels (Gen. 18:1-22);
(3) through dreams (Dan. 7:1; Num. 12:6-8);
(4) through visions (Is. 1:1-2; Rev. 1:9-10);
(5) through miracles (Ex. 3:2-4);
(6) through voice (I Sam. 3:2-10);
(7) God put His words in prophets’ mouths (II Sam. 23:2; Ex. 4:12; Jer. 1:9; Deut. 18:18);
(8) and through inspiration (I Cor. 2:10; II Pet. 1:21)



INSPIRATION
God Commit His Words to Writing

How the words spoken by God were preserved? Did His words revealed to His servants remained spoken words? God commanded His servants to commit them to writing, as what He commanded Jeremiah the Prophet, one of those whom God entrusted the writing of His words:

“This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Write in a book all the words I have spoken to you.” (Jer. 30:2, NIV)

God commanded His commissioned writers to commit His words to writing. What was God’s reason in commanding His servants to commit His words to writing? In order that His words be preserved “for the days to come”:

“Go now, write it on a tablet for them, inscribe it on a scroll, that for the days to come it may be an everlasting witness.” (Is. 30:8, NIV)

Those written by the commissioned writers themselves are called “autographs.” The books written by the inspired writers are commonly called “sacred books.”

Question:

Do you ever look at other interpretations of the Bible and its prophecies?

It is a must to compare the interpretations of others from the interpretations of the ministers of the church I belong to. Because if I won't compare then how can I accept it as the genuine tamale? Is this the real Mcoy or is it the other one.

We have to be picky on spiritual things like when we check the freshness of what we buy in the wet market.
For example fish:

You gotta check the gills, the firmness of the body, the smell of the fish. If you won't, chances are you are buying something fishy. Same is true with doctrines and prophecies - you gotta check that in history, you gotta check other bible translation and you gotta check the person who is interpreting the prophecy.

Would you believe someone who is a polygamist? How about a pedophile? Why would you believe anything from someone who molest children? Or murders people who does not conform with what they believe?

Be a believer of the truth not a fanatic for lies.

 

[Samael_Khan]

THE BIBLE HAS been the basis of faith of countless people in Christendom. It is the fountainhead of hope and inspiration of those who believe in the Almighty as introduced by the Lord Jesus Christ. However, how are the words of God came to us? The words of God came to us through:

(1) Revelation
(2) Inspiration
(3) Canonization
(4) Transmission
(5) Illumination




REVELATION
God Revealed His Words in Various Ways and in Various Times

How did God reveal His words to man? God spoke at various times and indifferent ways, as is written in

View attachment 39887

Hebrews 1:1-2:

“God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;” (Heb. 1:1-2, NKJV)

God revealed his words to men in various times – from the Patriarchal era, to the era of the Prophets and the Christian era. The era of the fathers or patriarchs was from the time of the first man created by God to the beginning of the time of the prophets of ancient Israel. The era of the prophets ended with the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ, which was also the beginning of the last dispensation of time, the Christian era. In every dispensation of time mentioned, God spoke to His people in various ways.

God revealed His words through the following:

(1) God Himself spoke to His servants like Adam (Gen. 2:16-17), Noah (Gen. 6:13), and Abraham (Gen. 15:1);
(2) God revealed His words through angels (Gen. 18:1-22);
(3) through dreams (Dan. 7:1; Num. 12:6-8);
(4) through visions (Is. 1:1-2; Rev. 1:9-10);
(5) through miracles (Ex. 3:2-4);
(6) through voice (I Sam. 3:2-10);
(7) God put His words in prophets’ mouths (II Sam. 23:2; Ex. 4:12; Jer. 1:9; Deut. 18:18);
(8) and through inspiration (I Cor. 2:10; II Pet. 1:21)



INSPIRATION
God Commit His Words to Writing

How the words spoken by God were preserved? Did His words revealed to His servants remained spoken words? God commanded His servants to commit them to writing, as what He commanded Jeremiah the Prophet, one of those whom God entrusted the writing of His words:

“This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Write in a book all the words I have spoken to you.” (Jer. 30:2, NIV)

God commanded His commissioned writers to commit His words to writing. What was God’s reason in commanding His servants to commit His words to writing? In order that His words be preserved “for the days to come”:

“Go now, write it on a tablet for them, inscribe it on a scroll, that for the days to come it may be an everlasting witness.” (Is. 30:8, NIV)

Those written by the commissioned writers themselves are called “autographs.” The books written by the inspired writers are commonly called “sacred books.”

Those are claims though, not evidence. We have to provide evidence that the claims of those scriptures, as regards to who authored them, are true. Just because a book claims to be written by God doesn't mean that it was. The various points that you mentioned are what the book, or at the very least, what believers claim with regards to God being the author of the Bible. We have to try to prove this using outside criteria which can be applied to any book. Plus the Bible isn't one book, but a collection of books, so each book has to be examined separately.

One question would be, for instance, would be:

How do prophecies coming true prove that a God exists?

It is a must to compare the interpretations of others from the interpretations of the ministers of the church I belong to. Because if I won't compare then how can I accept it as the genuine tamale? Is this the real Mcoy or is it the other one.

This line of reasoning is spot on.

We have to be picky on spiritual things like when we check the freshness of what we buy in the wet market.
For example fish:

View attachment 39888

You gotta check the gills, the firmness of the body, the smell of the fish. If you won't, chances are you are buying something fishy. Same is true with doctrines and prophecies - you gotta check that in history, you gotta check other bible translation and you gotta check the person who is interpreting the prophecy.

I agree with this too.

Would you believe someone who is a polygamist? How about a pedophile? Why would you believe anything from someone who molest children? Or murders people who does not conform with what they believe?

Be a believer of the truth not a fanatic for lies.

Paul was a murderer and David and Solomon were polygamists. Yet, according to those who believe the Bible is from God, trust that they knew the truth about God, so even the Bible doesn't hold that criteria.

Whether a person is a polygamist, pedophile or a murderer doesn't matter in terms of whether they are telling the truth or not. If someone is a pathological liar, then that would be no reason to trust them because they are prone to lying. But what someone does in most cases, is independent of whether how they interpretation of a book is true or not.

 

[MJFlores]

Plus the Bible isn't one book, but a collection of books, so each book has to be examined separately.

THE BIBLE IS the “book of books.” Even though there are many “sacred books” used by different religions, the Bible is above all these “sacred books.” The Bible is unique, possessing characteristics and attributes that cannot be found in any books of different religions. What is the uniqueness of the Bible that makes it different from other religious books?

The Bible is Unique in Writing

The 66 books of the Bible were written at different times and under various circumstances. The Bible is unique in writing because it is the only book that was:

1. Written in the span of 1500 years:

· The Book of Genesis, the first book of the Bible, was written c.1447-1407 BC, and the book of Revelation, the last book of the Bible, was written approximately c.90-100 AD. Thus, the Bible was written in a span from 1447 BC to 100 AD.

2. Written in three languages:

· Hebrew. Most of the Old Testament books were written in Hebrew.
· Aramaic. Small fractions of the Old Testament (like fractions of Daniel and Ezra) were written in Aramaic.
· Greek. The whole New Testament was generally written in Koine Greek, or common Greek.

3. Written by more than forty authors from different walks of life, including:

· A “son of the daughter of Pharaoh,” and a political leader, judge, and trained in the civilization of Egypt (Moses);
· A military leader (Joshua);
· A king, poet, musician, shepherd and warrior (David);
· A herdsman (Amos);
· A prime minister (Daniel);
· A king and philosopher (Solomon);
· A priest and scribe (Ezra).
· A cupbearer to a pagan king (Nehemiah);
· A physician and historian (Luke);
· A fisherman (Peter);
· A Pharisee (Paul);

4. Written in different times:


· In the time of the Exodus (the writings of Moses)
· In times of war and conquest (the writings of Joshua)
· During the establishment and expansion of the kingdom (the writings of David)
· In times of peace and prosperity (the writings od Solomon)
· During the Babylonian captivity (the writings of Daniel)
· During the Roman period (the New Testament books)


5. Written in different places:

· In the wilderness (the Torah);
· In a dungeon (Jeremiah);
· On a hillside and in a palace (Daniel);
· Inside prison walls (Epistles of Paul);
· While traveling (Acts);
· While in exile on the island of Patmos (Revelation).

6. Written in a wide variety of literary style:

· Historical narrative;
· Biography;
· Autobiography;
· Poetry;
· Song;
· Didactic treatise;
· Memoirs;
· Personal correspondence;
· Satire;
· Law;
· Prophecy;
· Parable; and
· Allegory.

No other book religious or secular was written in the span of 1,500 years, by forty men from every walks of life, in different places and times, and in a wide variety of literary style. These make the Bible unique from any other book.


The Bible is Unique in Transmission

The Bible is unique even in terms of its transmission. How unique is the Bible in terms of transmission? Since time immemorial, the Bible was copied, first by priests or temple scribes, then by professional scribes – the Sopherim, the Talmudists, and the Masoretes. The Bible is the only book having tens of thousands of manuscripts or copies by hand.

The Old Testament

The Old Testament has about 12,000 manuscripts and manuscript fragments, including the Geniza manuscripts and the Dead Sea Scroll:

“Even though the Old Testament does not boast of the same quantity of manuscripts (MSS) as the New Testament, the number of manuscripts available today is quite remarkable. Several reasons have been suggested for the scarcity of early Hebrew manuscripts. The first and most obvious reason is a combination of antiquity and destructibility; two – to three thousand years is a long time to expect ancient documents to last. Nonetheless, several lines of evidence support the conclusion that their quality is very good. First, it is important to establish the quantity of manuscripts available. There are several important collections of Hebrew manuscripts today. The first collection of Hebrew manuscripts, made by Benjamin Kennicott (1776-1780) and published by Oxford, listed 615 manuscripts of the Old Testament. Later, Giovanni de Rossi (1784-1788) published a list of 731 manuscripts. The most important manuscript discoveries in modern times are those of the Cairo Geniza (1890s) and the Dead Sea Scrolls (1947 and following years). In the Cairo synagogue attic, a geniza, or storehouse, for old manuscripts was discovered. Two hundred thousand manuscripts and fragments (Kahle, CG, 13 and Wurthwein, TOT, 25), some ten thousand of which are biblical (Goshen-Gottstein, BMUS, 35), were found.”1


The New Testament

The New Testament has about 25,000 manuscripts:


“There are now more than 5,686 known Greek manuscripts of the New Testament. Add over 10,000 Latin Vulgate and at least 9,300 other versions (MSS), and we have close to, if not more than, 25,000 manuscript copies of portions of the New Testament in existence today. No other document of antiquity even begins to approach such numbers and attestations. In comparison, Homer’s Iliad is second, with only 643 manuscripts that still survive.”2

As compared to other Greek documents of antiquity, the New Testament has about 5,686 Greek manuscripts, while second to it is Homer’s Iliad, with only 643 manuscripts.

The earliest preserved text of the New Testament (almost the whole New Testament) dated c.250 AD, only 150 years away from the New Testament (written c. 50-100 AD). The earliest fragments of the New Testament (the Gospel according to John) dated 120 AD, only 20 years away from the writing of the said book (John was written about 90-100 AD), while the earliest copies of Homer’s Iliad are dated 400 BC, a 400 year gap from the writing of Iliad (800 BC).

Thus, no other document of antiquity can equal the existing quantity of the manuscripts (MSS) of the Bible (both Old and New Testaments). This also makes the Bible unique from not only any religious books, but even from any documents of antiquity.

One question would be, for instance, would be:

How do prophecies coming true prove that a God exists?

No. The prophecies coming true prove that the Bible is true.
Looking around you and looking at the order of the created universe prove that God exist
I speak for myself because I believe - nothing cannot create something

Psalm 102:25 New International Version (NIV)
In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.

Paul was a murderer and David and Solomon were polygamists. Yet, according to those who believe the Bible is from God, trust that they knew the truth about God, so even the Bible doesn't hold that criteria.

Whether a person is a polygamist, pedophile or a murderer doesn't matter in terms of whether they are telling the truth or not. If someone is a pathological liar, then that would be no reason to trust them because they are prone to lying. But what someone does in most cases, is independent of whether how they interpretation of a book is true or not.

Paul was a murderer and then forgiven Acts 9 , chosen by the Lord Jesus Christ to be his light to the Gentiles. Acts 13:46-47

1 Timothy 1:15 New International Version (NIV)
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst.

1 Corinthians 1:1 New International Version (NIV)
I Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes,

Paul changed from the persecutor of Christians to the apostle of Christ Jesus and he was responsible for spreading the gospel to Gentile lands during his time.

Solomon however sinned - from being God's appointed king for Israel to an unrepentant sinner.

Nehemiah 13:26 New International Version (NIV)
Was it not because of marriages like these that Solomon king of Israel sinned? Among the many nations there was no king like him. He was loved by his God, and God made him king over all Israel, but even he was led into sin by foreign women.

Isn't it worse to be an apostle to a man that should not have been born, like Judas?
Now comparing David to his son Solomon, David is repentant. When he sins, he ask God for forgiveness.

1 Chronicles 21:8 New International Version (NIV)
Then David said to God, “I have sinned greatly by doing this. Now, I beg you, take away the guilt of your servant. I have done a very foolish thing.”

On these three servants of God, nobody here is a pedophile or a child molester. It is all about integrity.

 

[Samael_Khan]

THE BIBLE IS the “book of books.” Even though there are many “sacred books” used by different religions, the Bible is above all these “sacred books.” The Bible is unique, possessing characteristics and attributes that cannot be found in any books of different religions. What is the uniqueness of the Bible that makes it different from other religious books?

The Bible is Unique in Writing

The 66 books of the Bible were written at different times and under various circumstances. The Bible is unique in writing because it is the only book that was:

1. Written in the span of 1500 years:

· The Book of Genesis, the first book of the Bible, was written c.1447-1407 BC, and the book of Revelation, the last book of the Bible, was written approximately c.90-100 AD. Thus, the Bible was written in a span from 1447 BC to 100 AD.

2. Written in three languages:

· Hebrew. Most of the Old Testament books were written in Hebrew.
· Aramaic. Small fractions of the Old Testament (like fractions of Daniel and Ezra) were written in Aramaic.
· Greek. The whole New Testament was generally written in Koine Greek, or common Greek.

3. Written by more than forty authors from different walks of life, including:

· A “son of the daughter of Pharaoh,” and a political leader, judge, and trained in the civilization of Egypt (Moses);
· A military leader (Joshua);
· A king, poet, musician, shepherd and warrior (David);
· A herdsman (Amos);
· A prime minister (Daniel);
· A king and philosopher (Solomon);
· A priest and scribe (Ezra).
· A cupbearer to a pagan king (Nehemiah);
· A physician and historian (Luke);
· A fisherman (Peter);
· A Pharisee (Paul);

4. Written in different times:


· In the time of the Exodus (the writings of Moses)
· In times of war and conquest (the writings of Joshua)
· During the establishment and expansion of the kingdom (the writings of David)
· In times of peace and prosperity (the writings od Solomon)
· During the Babylonian captivity (the writings of Daniel)
· During the Roman period (the New Testament books)


5. Written in different places:

· In the wilderness (the Torah);
· In a dungeon (Jeremiah);
· On a hillside and in a palace (Daniel);
· Inside prison walls (Epistles of Paul);
· While traveling (Acts);
· While in exile on the island of Patmos (Revelation).

6. Written in a wide variety of literary style:

· Historical narrative;
· Biography;
· Autobiography;
· Poetry;
· Song;
· Didactic treatise;
· Memoirs;
· Personal correspondence;
· Satire;
· Law;
· Prophecy;
· Parable; and
· Allegory.

No other book religious or secular was written in the span of 1,500 years, by forty men from every walks of life, in different places and times, and in a wide variety of literary style. These make the Bible unique from any other book.


The Bible is Unique in Transmission

The Bible is unique even in terms of its transmission. How unique is the Bible in terms of transmission? Since time immemorial, the Bible was copied, first by priests or temple scribes, then by professional scribes – the Sopherim, the Talmudists, and the Masoretes. The Bible is the only book having tens of thousands of manuscripts or copies by hand.

The Old Testament

The Old Testament has about 12,000 manuscripts and manuscript fragments, including the Geniza manuscripts and the Dead Sea Scroll:

View attachment 39901

“Even though the Old Testament does not boast of the same quantity of manuscripts (MSS) as the New Testament, the number of manuscripts available today is quite remarkable. Several reasons have been suggested for the scarcity of early Hebrew manuscripts. The first and most obvious reason is a combination of antiquity and destructibility; two – to three thousand years is a long time to expect ancient documents to last. Nonetheless, several lines of evidence support the conclusion that their quality is very good. First, it is important to establish the quantity of manuscripts available. There are several important collections of Hebrew manuscripts today. The first collection of Hebrew manuscripts, made by Benjamin Kennicott (1776-1780) and published by Oxford, listed 615 manuscripts of the Old Testament. Later, Giovanni de Rossi (1784-1788) published a list of 731 manuscripts. The most important manuscript discoveries in modern times are those of the Cairo Geniza (1890s) and the Dead Sea Scrolls (1947 and following years). In the Cairo synagogue attic, a geniza, or storehouse, for old manuscripts was discovered. Two hundred thousand manuscripts and fragments (Kahle, CG, 13 and Wurthwein, TOT, 25), some ten thousand of which are biblical (Goshen-Gottstein, BMUS, 35), were found.”1


The New Testament

The New Testament has about 25,000 manuscripts:


“There are now more than 5,686 known Greek manuscripts of the New Testament. Add over 10,000 Latin Vulgate and at least 9,300 other versions (MSS), and we have close to, if not more than, 25,000 manuscript copies of portions of the New Testament in existence today. No other document of antiquity even begins to approach such numbers and attestations. In comparison, Homer’s Iliad is second, with only 643 manuscripts that still survive.”2

As compared to other Greek documents of antiquity, the New Testament has about 5,686 Greek manuscripts, while second to it is Homer’s Iliad, with only 643 manuscripts.

The earliest preserved text of the New Testament (almost the whole New Testament) dated c.250 AD, only 150 years away from the New Testament (written c. 50-100 AD). The earliest fragments of the New Testament (the Gospel according to John) dated 120 AD, only 20 years away from the writing of the said book (John was written about 90-100 AD), while the earliest copies of Homer’s Iliad are dated 400 BC, a 400 year gap from the writing of Iliad (800 BC).

Thus, no other document of antiquity can equal the existing quantity of the manuscripts (MSS) of the Bible (both Old and New Testaments). This also makes the Bible unique from not only any religious books, but even from any documents of antiquity.

The above is what makes the Bible truly unique as a compilation of books. The only points that I would disagree with, or at least say we are uncertain in many cases, if not all, are the origins of certain books or who wrote them. The above points especially are useful with regards to accuracy of transmission and translation.

No. The prophecies coming true prove that the Bible is true.
Looking around you and looking at the order of the created universe prove that God exist
I speak for myself because I believe - nothing cannot create something

Very good point, a methodology that I agree with except the idea that looking around at the order of nature necessarily proves that a God exists. Then then missing link here is proving that the Bible links to the true God.

Paul was a murderer and then forgiven Acts 9 , chosen by the Lord Jesus Christ to be his light to the Gentiles. Acts 13:46-47

View attachment 39905

1 Timothy 1:15 New International Version (NIV)
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst.

1 Corinthians 1:1 New International Version (NIV)
I Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes,

Paul changed from the persecutor of Christians to the apostle of Christ Jesus and he was responsible for spreading the gospel to Gentile lands during his time.

Solomon however sinned - from being God's appointed king for Israel to an unrepentant sinner.

Nehemiah 13:26 New International Version (NIV)
Was it not because of marriages like these that Solomon king of Israel sinned? Among the many nations there was no king like him. He was loved by his God, and God made him king over all Israel, but even he was led into sin by foreign women.

View attachment 39906

Isn't it worse to be an apostle to a man that should not have been born, like Judas?
Now comparing David to his son Solomon, David is repentant. When he sins, he ask God for forgiveness.

1 Chronicles 21:8 New International Version (NIV)
Then David said to God, “I have sinned greatly by doing this. Now, I beg you, take away the guilt of your servant. I have done a very foolish thing.”

On these three servants of God, nobody here is a pedophile or a child molester. It is all about integrity.

What do you mean by integrity?

If it is with regards to honesty, it doesn't necessarily follow that murderers, polygamists, or pedophiles are dishonest when it comes to interpretation of text.

If it is with regards to morality, it is subjective, therefore has very little to do with telling the truth unless it is referring to a person being a liar.

 

[MJFlores]

The above is what makes the Bible truly unique as a compilation of books. The only points that I would disagree with, or at least say we are uncertain in many cases, if not all, are the origins of certain books or who wrote them.

origins of certain books or who wrote them....
could you mention these certain books?
are these apocryphal books?
which were written by some pre-Christian Jewish cults?
and which the Roman church introduced?

The biblical apocrypha (from the Ancient Greek: ἀπόκρυφος, romanized: apókruphos, lit. 'hidden') denotes the collection of apocryphal ancient books thought to have been written some time between 200 BCE and 400 CE.[1][2][3][4][5] Some Christian Churches include some or all of the same texts within the body of their version of the Old Testament.[6]

Biblical apocrypha - Wikipedia

These books are non canon
These books are stand-alone books which other books and teaches doctrines which contradict other teachings in the bible.

The Bible teachings are all in unison and this is declared in the Bible itself:

Isaiah 34:16 New International Version (NIV)

Look in the scroll of the Lord and read:

None of these will be missing,
not one will lack her mate.
For it is his mouth that has given the order,
and his Spirit will gather them together.

Then then missing link here is proving that the Bible links to the true God.

Not at all.
The Bible records the events and history of the nation of Israel.
And in that story it tells about the love of God for that nation.
During those times, the only true God was with Israel and not with other nation.
Established his covenant, people broke it several times and promised a new one
The true teaching about God was lost in Israel momentarily.

In the fullness of time, God sent his Son, Jesus Christ
He spoke about the true God and eternal life
He built his church, as the means for salvation and in here God is found and not with other churches
Jesus Christ introduced the new covenant, he suffered, died and God raised him up from the dead
His apostles preached the good news [the Bible] to Gentile lands

Then after the apostles died, apostasy came.
The true teaching about God and salvation was lost and twisted
Until the fullness of time, the ends of the earth came and as God promised he will call his people

Isaiah 43:6 New International Version (NIV)
I will say to the north, ‘Give them up!’
and to the south, ‘Do not hold them back.’
Bring my sons from afar
and my daughters from the ends of the earth—

What do you mean by integrity?

Jim Jones had intelligence and energy, missing integrity what happened?
They drank Kool-Aid

So integrity is so important to bind the character of a person

Is integrity found in the Bible and is it important?

Proverbs 10:9 New International Version (NIV)
Whoever walks in integrity walks securely,
but whoever takes crooked paths will be found out.

Proverbs 13:6 New International Version (NIV)
Righteousness guards the person of integrity,
but wickedness overthrows the sinner.

2 Corinthians 1:12 New International Version (NIV)
Now this is our boast: Our conscience testifies that we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially in our relations with you, with integrity and godly sincerity. We have done so, relying not on worldly wisdom but on God’s grace.

Titus 2:7-8 New International Version (NIV)
In everything set them an example by doing what is good. In your teaching show integrity, seriousness and soundness of speech that cannot be condemned, so that those who oppose you may be ashamed because they have nothing bad to say about us.

 

[Samael_Khan]

origins of certain books or who wrote them....
could you mention these certain books?
are these apocryphal books?
which were written by some pre-Christian Jewish cults?
and which the Roman church introduced?

The biblical apocrypha (from the Ancient Greek: ἀπόκρυφος, romanized: apókruphos, lit. 'hidden') denotes the collection of apocryphal ancient books thought to have been written some time between 200 BCE and 400 CE.[1][2][3][4][5] Some Christian Churches include some or all of the same texts within the body of their version of the Old Testament.[6]

Biblical apocrypha - Wikipedia

These books are non canon
These books are stand-alone books which other books and teaches doctrines which contradict other teachings in the bible.

The Bible teachings are all in unison and this is declared in the Bible itself:

Isaiah 34:16 New International Version (NIV)

Look in the scroll of the Lord and read:

None of these will be missing,
not one will lack her mate.
For it is his mouth that has given the order,
and his Spirit will gather them together.

I wasn't referring to the Apocrypha, I was referring to books currently in the bible, such as the book of Hebrews. The problem with the Bible and ancient books in general is that they are so far back in time that authorship cannot be verified, as even contemporary people from the time they were written haven't left behind any secular evidence. The only way we can even come close is through textual analysis of the ancient languages and those who study the ancient languages have reached a general consensus which isn't in favour of the books narrative.

Not at all.
The Bible records the events and history of the nation of Israel.
And in that story it tells about the love of God for that nation.
During those times, the only true God was with Israel and not with other nation.
Established his covenant, people broke it several times and promised a new one
The true teaching about God was lost in Israel momentarily.

View attachment 39951

In the fullness of time, God sent his Son, Jesus Christ
He spoke about the true God and eternal life
He built his church, as the means for salvation and in here God is found and not with other churches
Jesus Christ introduced the new covenant, he suffered, died and God raised him up from the dead
His apostles preached the good news [the Bible] to Gentile lands

Then after the apostles died, apostasy came.
The true teaching about God and salvation was lost and twisted
Until the fullness of time, the ends of the earth came and as God promised he will call his people

Isaiah 43:6 New International Version (NIV)
I will say to the north, ‘Give them up!’
and to the south, ‘Do not hold them back.’
Bring my sons from afar
and my daughters from the ends of the earth—

The above, unfortunately, are just claims by the book. The evidence needed to make it clear that there is a link is not the Bible's words itself. Even if we grant that the prophets and Jesus communicated with a supernatural presence, how did they even verify that they were speaking to God? It is a similar case with Muhammed, Allah and the Quran. He received revelation from someone who claimed to be an angel of God delivering God's message, but why did he take the supernatural beings word for it? (Well he didn't at first, but then became convinced of stuff because of another persons claim). There are many alternative options to consider.

View attachment 39952

Jim Jones had intelligence and energy, missing integrity what happened?
They drank Kool-Aid

So integrity is so important to bind the character of a person

View attachment 39953

Is integrity found in the Bible and is it important?

Proverbs 10:9 New International Version (NIV)
Whoever walks in integrity walks securely,
but whoever takes crooked paths will be found out.

Proverbs 13:6 New International Version (NIV)
Righteousness guards the person of integrity,
but wickedness overthrows the sinner.

2 Corinthians 1:12 New International Version (NIV)
Now this is our boast: Our conscience testifies that we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially in our relations with you, with integrity and godly sincerity. We have done so, relying not on worldly wisdom but on God’s grace.

Titus 2:7-8 New International Version (NIV)
In everything set them an example by doing what is good. In your teaching show integrity, seriousness and soundness of speech that cannot be condemned, so that those who oppose you may be ashamed because they have nothing bad to say about us.

Those verses about integrity are not relevant to the conversation we are having unfortunately. They are revealing an observable and wise point that walking in integrity prevents a person from getting into trouble, to have a clear conscience and to reveal to those who oppose us that they are in error. So it is relating to the benefit of good behaviour, not that integrity is necessary to interpret the Bible properly.

Jim Jones is a good example of the consequences of not having integrity (although he had gone insane so he wasn't in his right mind), or acting wicked (which is what those verses in proverbs you mentioned are discussing), as all of them died and suffered in the compound even before dying.

In fact, the reality of the effects of good behaviour and bad behaviour are more nuanced than that as Proverbs and Ecclesiastes presents opposing viewpoints of those effects. Proverbs generally states that those who do good will do well whereas Ecclesiastes states that at best what happens to us is random and at worst that the wicked are the ones who are successful.

 

[MJFlores]

I wasn't referring to the Apocrypha, I was referring to books currently in the bible, such as the book of Hebrews. The problem with the Bible and ancient books in general is that they are so far back in time that authorship cannot be verified, as even contemporary people from the time they were written haven't left behind any secular evidence. The only way we can even come close is through textual analysis of the ancient languages and those who study the ancient languages have reached a general consensus which isn't in favour of the books narrative.

Is there anything in the Book of Hebrews which runs contrary to other books in the Bible?
If none, the early Christians were already using it in their worship services.
Letters of the apostles circulated around the first church and accepted as the word of God
Inspired by God as the apostles were guided by the Holy Spirit.

In the last part of Hebrews 13 this is written:

Brothers and sisters, I urge you to bear with my word of exhortation, for in fact I have written to you quite briefly.

I want you to know that our brother Timothy has been released. If he arrives soon, I will come with him to see you.

Greet all your leaders and all the Lord’s people. Those from Italy send you their greetings.

Grace be with you all.

I think its Paul. Undoubtedly its Paul.

The above, unfortunately, are just claims by the book. The evidence needed to make it clear that there is a link is not the Bible's words itself. Even if we grant that the prophets and Jesus communicated with a supernatural presence, how did they even verify that they were speaking to God? It is a similar case with Muhammed, Allah and the Quran. He received revelation from someone who claimed to be an angel of God delivering God's message, but why did he take the supernatural beings word for it? (Well he didn't at first, but then became convinced of stuff because of another persons claim). There are many alternative options to consider.

This is what really happened as written by who I think is Paul and without a doubt Paul.

Hebrews 1:1-2 New International Version (NIV)
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

That is the claim of the book.
Now the book does not contain simple claims but it contains

Prophecies - which are proofs for the believers to believe.
On other "sacred" books of other religions, what do they contain - ZERO prophecies
Next we did have some small chat about religious leaders to have integrity.
If integrity is lost, it is sad isn't it?

Next what can I learn with their books?

Source: 6. Menstrual Periods - Sahih Al-Bukhari - 0 - 298
37 hadith found in 'Menstrual Periods' of Sahih Bukhari.

298

Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were Junub. During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar (dress worn below the waist) and used to fondle me. While in Itikaf, he used to bring his head near me and I would wash it while I used to be in my periods (menses).

299

Narrated 'Abdur-Rahman bin Al-Aswad: (on the authority of his father) 'Aisha said: "Whenever Allah's Apostle wanted to fondle anyone of us during her periods (menses), he used to order her to put on an Izar and start fondling her." 'Aisha added, "None of you could control his sexual desires as the Prophet could."

300

Narrated Maimuna: When ever Allah's Apostle wanted to fondle any of his wives during the periods (menses), he used to ask her to wear an Izar.

301

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

302

Narrated 'Aisha: We set out with the Prophet for Hajj and when we reached Sarif I got my menses. When the Prophet came to me, I was weeping. He asked, "Why are you weeping?" I said, "I wish if I had not performed Hajj this year." He asked, "May be that you got your menses?" I replied, "Yes." He then said, "This is the thing which Allah has ordained for all the daughters of Adam. So do what all the pilgrims do except that you do not perform the Tawaf round the Ka'ba till you are clean."

303

Narrated 'Aisha: Fatima bint Abi Hubaish said to Allah's Apostle, "O Allah's Apostle! I do not become clean (from bleeding). Shall I give up my prayers?" Allah's Apostle replied: "No, because it is from a blood vessel and not the menses. So when the real menses begins give up your prayers and when it (the period) has finished wash the blood off your body (take a bath) and offer your prayers."

304

Narrated Asma' bint Abi Bakr: A woman asked Allah's Apostle, "O Allah's Apostle! What should we do, if the blood of menses falls on our clothes?" Allah's Apostle replied, "If the blood of menses falls on the garment of anyone of you, she must take hold of the blood spot, rub it, and wash it with water and then pray in (with it)."

305

Narrated 'Aisha: Whenever anyone of us got her menses, she, on becoming clean, used to take hold of the blood spot and rub the blood off her garment, and pour water over it and wash that portion thoroughly and sprinkle water over the rest of the garment. After that she would pray in (with) it.

306

Narrated 'Aisha: Once one of the wives of the Prophet did Itikaf along with him and she was getting bleeding in between her periods. She used to see the blood (from her private parts) and she would perhaps put a dish under her for the blood. (The sub-narrator 'Ikrima added, 'Aisha once saw the liquid of safflower and said, "It looks like what so and so used to have.")

307

Narrated 'Aisha: "One of the wives of Allah's Apostle joined him in l'tikaf and she noticed blood and yellowish discharge (from her private parts) and put a dish under her when she prayed."

There is more where that came from.

93. ONENESS, UNIQUENESS OF ALLAH (TAWHEED) - Sahih Al-Bukhari - 0 - 639

 

[Samael_Khan]

Is there anything in the Book of Hebrews which runs contrary to other books in the Bible?
If none, the early Christians were already using it in their worship services.
Letters of the apostles circulated around the first church and accepted as the word of God
Inspired by God as the apostles were guided by the Holy Spirit.

In the last part of Hebrews 13 this is written:

Brothers and sisters, I urge you to bear with my word of exhortation, for in fact I have written to you quite briefly.

I want you to know that our brother Timothy has been released. If he arrives soon, I will come with him to see you.

Greet all your leaders and all the Lord’s people. Those from Italy send you their greetings.

Grace be with you all.

I think its Paul. Undoubtedly its Paul.



This is what really happened as written by who I think is Paul and without a doubt Paul.

Hebrews 1:1-2 New International Version (NIV)
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

That is the claim of the book.
Now the book does not contain simple claims but it contains

Prophecies - which are proofs for the believers to believe.
On other "sacred" books of other religions, what do they contain - ZERO prophecies
Next we did have some small chat about religious leaders to have integrity.
If integrity is lost, it is sad isn't it?

Next what can I learn with their books?

Source: 6. Menstrual Periods - Sahih Al-Bukhari - 0 - 298
37 hadith found in 'Menstrual Periods' of Sahih Bukhari.

298

Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were Junub. During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar (dress worn below the waist) and used to fondle me. While in Itikaf, he used to bring his head near me and I would wash it while I used to be in my periods (menses).

299

Narrated 'Abdur-Rahman bin Al-Aswad: (on the authority of his father) 'Aisha said: "Whenever Allah's Apostle wanted to fondle anyone of us during her periods (menses), he used to order her to put on an Izar and start fondling her." 'Aisha added, "None of you could control his sexual desires as the Prophet could."

300

Narrated Maimuna: When ever Allah's Apostle wanted to fondle any of his wives during the periods (menses), he used to ask her to wear an Izar.

301

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

302

Narrated 'Aisha: We set out with the Prophet for Hajj and when we reached Sarif I got my menses. When the Prophet came to me, I was weeping. He asked, "Why are you weeping?" I said, "I wish if I had not performed Hajj this year." He asked, "May be that you got your menses?" I replied, "Yes." He then said, "This is the thing which Allah has ordained for all the daughters of Adam. So do what all the pilgrims do except that you do not perform the Tawaf round the Ka'ba till you are clean."

303

Narrated 'Aisha: Fatima bint Abi Hubaish said to Allah's Apostle, "O Allah's Apostle! I do not become clean (from bleeding). Shall I give up my prayers?" Allah's Apostle replied: "No, because it is from a blood vessel and not the menses. So when the real menses begins give up your prayers and when it (the period) has finished wash the blood off your body (take a bath) and offer your prayers."

304

Narrated Asma' bint Abi Bakr: A woman asked Allah's Apostle, "O Allah's Apostle! What should we do, if the blood of menses falls on our clothes?" Allah's Apostle replied, "If the blood of menses falls on the garment of anyone of you, she must take hold of the blood spot, rub it, and wash it with water and then pray in (with it)."

305

Narrated 'Aisha: Whenever anyone of us got her menses, she, on becoming clean, used to take hold of the blood spot and rub the blood off her garment, and pour water over it and wash that portion thoroughly and sprinkle water over the rest of the garment. After that she would pray in (with) it.

306

Narrated 'Aisha: Once one of the wives of the Prophet did Itikaf along with him and she was getting bleeding in between her periods. She used to see the blood (from her private parts) and she would perhaps put a dish under her for the blood. (The sub-narrator 'Ikrima added, 'Aisha once saw the liquid of safflower and said, "It looks like what so and so used to have.")

307

Narrated 'Aisha: "One of the wives of Allah's Apostle joined him in l'tikaf and she noticed blood and yellowish discharge (from her private parts) and put a dish under her when she prayed."

View attachment 39967

There is more where that came from.

93. ONENESS, UNIQUENESS OF ALLAH (TAWHEED) - Sahih Al-Bukhari - 0 - 639

Those who study the original text see the style of writing as not being in line with Paul's style and the sophistication of the theology as not fitting Paul's writings. The first point I cannot comment on so I would leave that to the experts, but the second point is very true, as Hebrews seems extremely complex (which makes it an interesting read) compared to the other writings, It seems as different in style and theology as the Gospel of John is to the other Gospels.

As for the book of Hebrews being contrary to the rest of the bible, some people say that it does while others say that it doesn't. The biggest issue to me would be whether the old Testament scriptures that it uses to support that Jesus was prophecied in the old Testament are actually taken out of context, which seems to be the case with many prophecies the Christians attributed to Jesus. So it isn't a matter of contradiction. It is a matter of whether the New Testament writers take Old Testament quotes out of context and use it for their own ends or not.

Regarding those hadiths, they have nothing to do with whether Muhammed actually received a Revelation from God or not. They are supposedly reports made by those living at the time and trusted because of a chain of narration over many years and whether they are true or not is questionable. In addition they aren't necessarily to be followed but to shed light on how they lived at the time, which is why there are many schools of thought in Sunni Islam. Those hadiths are also only relevant to Sunni muslims and not Shia muslims, who have a different set. Additionally they were compiled years after Muhammed lived. The Quran itself is independent of the Hadith. I have also read worse about the Judges and God's chosen people in the book of Judges, which are pretty disturbing.

My point when mentioning Muhammed was not addressing prophecy, it was about accepting claims from someone who said they received what they wrote down from God. It was addressed to your response about me questioning the link between the bible and God.

 

[MJFlores]

My point when mentioning Muhammed was not addressing prophecy, it was about accepting claims from someone who said they received what they wrote down from God. It was addressed to your response about me questioning the link between the bible and God.

What are hadiths?

Hadith, Arabic Ḥadīth (“News” or “Story”), also spelled Hadīt, record of the traditions or sayings of the Prophet Muhammad, revered and received as a major source of religious law and moral guidance, second only to the authority of the Qurʾān, the holy book of Islam.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Hadith
Hadith | Islam | Britannica - Encyclopedia Britannica


WHO WROTE THE BOOK CALLED QUR’AN AND WHO ORDERED THEM TO WRITE IT?


“Actually the Quran verses being collected by Zayd doesn't mean he is the author, as this was already memorized by many other disciples, all what he did is that he collected the verses in one book with evidence and witnesses for every verse.”

THE BOOK CALLED “Qur’an” was authored and written by Zayd Bin Thabit as testified by the Islamic traditions:


“(The Caliph `Uthman ordered Zaid bin Thabit, Sa`id bin Al-As, `Abdullah bin Az-Zubair and `Abdur- Rahman bin Al-Harith bin Hisham to write the Qur'an in the form of a book (Mushafs) and said to them. "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit (Al-Ansari) regarding any dialectic Arabic utterance of the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, for the Qur'an was revealed in this dialect." So they did it.”
[Sahih Al-Bhukari, Book 66, Hadith 6.]

Please take note of the following:

(a) According to Islamic traditions, Caliph Uthman ordered these men to write the Book called “Qur’an.” As compared to the Bible, it was God Himself who ordered the inspired prophets and apostles to write the books of the Bible as what the Lord God commanded Prophet Jeremiah:

“Thus speaks the LORD God of Israel, saying: 'Write in a book for yourself all the words that I have spoken to you.” (Jeremiah 30:2 NKJV)

(b) Indeed, Qur’an was written by these men. These words of Uthman testify that these men were the author, not only collectors but writers, of the book called Qur’an, “In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit (Al-Ansari) regarding any dialectic Arabic utterance of the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish.” While, during the writing of the Bible, God guided and guarded the inspired writers and ordered them write only what He ordered them to write:

“Now when the seven thunders uttered their voices, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, "Seal up the things which the seven thunders uttered, and do not write them." (Revelation 10:4 NKJV)

(c) Those written by Zayd came from the disciples and followers of the prophet of Islam (“this was already memorized by many other disciples, all what he did is that he collected the verses in one book with evidence and witnesses for every verse”). Unlike the Bible, those written in the books of the Bible were not collected from those who “heard” it from the prophets and apostles, but what the prophets and apostles themselves heard from God because they themselves who wrote it:

“Thus speaks the LORD God of Israel, saying: 'Write in a book for yourself all the words that I have spoken to you.” (Jeremiah 30:2 NKJV)


CONCLUSION

THUS, OUR POINT IS, the Book called Qur’an was not written by Muhammed, did not exist during Muhammed’s lifetime but after his death, those who wrote it are not prophets or apostles, only Abu Bakr and Uthman ordered them to write the book called Qur’an, and their sources were those who heard the utterance of Muhammed. Unlike the books of the Bible, they were written by the inspired writers themselves and God Himself who ordered them to write the books of the Bible saying “Write in a book for yourself all the words that I have spoken to you.”

 

[Samael_Khan]

CONCLUSION

THUS, OUR POINT IS, the Book called Qur’an was not written by Muhammed, did not exist during Muhammed’s lifetime but after his death, those who wrote it are not prophets or apostles, only Abu Bakr and Uthman ordered them to write the book called Qur’an, and their sources were those who heard the utterance of Muhammed. Unlike the books of the Bible, they were written by the inspired writers themselves and God Himself who ordered them to write the books of the Bible saying “Write in a book for yourself all the words that I have spoken to you.”

Sorry, I miswrote when saying that Muhammed wrote the Quran. It is a matter of whether he actually communicated with God and received Revelation from God.

What Zaid did was a compilation. If you are referencing the Sunni Hadith traditions then it wouldn't be correct to say that he authored the book according to that narrative, in the same way that it isn't correct to say that someone who writes what is dictated to him is the true author.

"(a) As compared to the Bible, it was God Himself who ordered the inspired prophets and apostles to write the books of the Bible as what the Lord God commanded Prophet Jeremiah:

“Thus speaks the LORD God of Israel, saying: 'Write in a book for yourself all the words that I have spoken to you.” (Jeremiah 30:2 NKJV)"

"While, during the writing of the Bible, God guided and guarded the inspired writers and ordered them write only what He ordered them to write:

“Now when the seven thunders uttered their voices, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, "Seal up the things which the seven thunders uttered, and do not write them." (Revelation 10:4 NKJV)"

"
Unlike the Bible, those written in the books of the Bible were not collected from those who “heard” it from the prophets and apostles, but what the prophets and apostles themselves heard from God because they themselves who wrote it:

“Thus speaks the LORD God of Israel, saying: 'Write in a book for yourself all the words that I have spoken to you.” (Jeremiah 30:2 NKJV)"

The problem with your bible quotes is that they only apply to specific books or are not claimed by the writers themselves but other people who didn't write the books are claiming such things.

The writers of Ecclesiastes, Job, Esther, etc, do not claim inspiration by God, some other writer does that.

Ecclesiastes 1 verse 1 says that the book is "the words of the preacher", not God.

The beginning of proverbs attributes the proverbs to Solomon who, even though he was supposedly the wisest man, did not say that what he said was inspired by God.

As for the Bible not being collected from those who heard it, the writer of Luke openly admits such a thing occured with his book:

"Luke 1
1
Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled [1] among us,
2
just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word.
3
Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus,
4
so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught."

 

[MJFlores]

Sorry, I miswrote when saying that Muhammed wrote the Quran. It is a matter of whether he actually communicated with God and received Revelation from God.

The Lord Jesus Christ warned his disciples and the readers of the Bible this basic fact:

Matthew 24:11 New International Version (NIV)
and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.

Is it a fact that Jesus Christ was taken to heaven around 33 AD?
And it is a fact that Muhammad (Arabic: مُحَمَّد‎, pronounced [muħammad]; c. 570 CE – 8 June 632 CE) really came much later. And Muhammad is according to Muslims:

The last prophet. I believe Jesus Christ already forewarned the use of the title prophet when he walked the earth. And he warned - they will deceive many people - how many? 1.8 Billion?

Further what sins could you throw at Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God?

How about with Muhammad?
Muhammad has been accused of sadism and mercilessness— including the invasion of the Banu Qurayza tribe in Medina—sexual relationships with slaves, and his marriage to Aisha when she was six years old, which according to most estimates was consummated when she was nine.

Criticism of Muhammad - Wikipedia

What kind of food for the soul are we eating?
Food prepared by a pedophile, child molester?
And you would accept the idea that God through Gabriel spoke to him?
Where is integrity here?

So the Quran is a no brainer here.
You know who is much credible - the work of 2 guys from a child molester or
The work of 40 contributors over a span of 1,500 years - all with the same idea and united
Because God was at the helm.

Ecclesiastes 1 verse 1 says that the book is "the words of the preacher", not God.

The beginning of proverbs attributes the proverbs to Solomon who, even though he was supposedly the wisest man, did not say that what he said was inspired by God.

Ecclesiastes 1 New International Version (NIV)
The words of the Teacher, son of David, king in Jerusalem:

“Meaningless! Meaningless!”
says the Teacher.
“Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless.”

With such authority and introduction - God was left out in Ecclesiastes - that is so wrong.
Who is really working with Solomon? I don't want to give opinions, I just like to make funny or side comments and include pictures sometimes to make it lively. From the Bible!

1 Kings 3:5-15 New International Version (NIV)
At Gibeon the Lord appeared to Solomon during the night in a dream, and God said, “Ask for whatever you want me to give you.”

Solomon answered, “You have shown great kindness to your servant, my father David, because he was faithful to you and righteous and upright in heart. You have continued this great kindness to him and have given him a son to sit on his throne this very day.

“Now, Lord my God, you have made your servant king in place of my father David. But I am only a little child and do not know how to carry out my duties. Your servant is here among the people you have chosen, a great people, too numerous to count or number. So give your servant a discerning heart to govern your people and to distinguish between right and wrong. For who is able to govern this great people of yours?”

The Lord was pleased that Solomon had asked for this. So God said to him, “Since you have asked for this and not for long life or wealth for yourself, nor have asked for the death of your enemies but for discernment in administering justice, I will do what you have asked. I will give you a wise and discerning heart, so that there will never have been anyone like you, nor will there ever be. Moreover, I will give you what you have not asked for—both wealth and honor—so that in your lifetime you will have no equal among kings. And if you walk in obedience to me and keep my decrees and commands as David your father did, I will give you a long life.” Then Solomon awoke—and he realized it had been a dream.

He returned to Jerusalem, stood before the ark of the Lord’s covenant and sacrificed burnt offerings and fellowship offerings. Then he gave a feast for all his court.

So God gave him a wise and discerning heart - that God given wisdom to write Proverbs and Ecclesiastes.
A wisdom, the likes you have never seen, that he alone possessed and nobody else did.

As for the Bible not being collected from those who heard it, the writer of Luke openly admits such a thing occured with his book:

"Luke 1

Luke 1 New International Version (NIV)
Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.


I do not see the problem here. Apostle Luke wrote Luke and Acts of the Apostles.

Before Jesus Christ was crucified, died and taken up to heaven. He promised something to his apostles:

John 14:26 New International Version (NIV)
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

So Jesus Christ promised to send the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit will remind his apostles of everything he said. So Luke with the fire of the Holy Spirit in him, decided to write an orderly account - I don't see the problem here.

How will the Holy Spirit teach? With a black board, teach from home or what?

When did Jesus send the Holy Spirit?

According to Luke in

Acts 2:1-4 New International Version (NIV)
When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

 

[Samael_Khan]

The Lord Jesus Christ warned his disciples and the readers of the Bible this basic fact:

Matthew 24:11 New International Version (NIV)
and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.

Is it a fact that Jesus Christ was taken to heaven around 33 AD?

No, it is not a fact.

And it is a fact that Muhammad (Arabic: مُحَمَّد‎, pronounced [muħammad]; c. 570 CE – 8 June 632 CE) really came much later. And Muhammad is according to Muslims:

The last prophet. I believe Jesus Christ already forewarned the use of the title prophet when he walked the earth. And he warned - they will deceive many people - how many? 1.8 Billion?

Yes. That is what the bible claims Jesus said.

Further what sins could you throw at Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God?

How about with Muhammad?
Muhammad has been accused of sadism and mercilessness— including the invasion of the Banu Qurayza tribe in Medina—sexual relationships with slaves, and his marriage to Aisha when she was six years old, which according to most estimates was consummated when she was nine.

Criticism of Muhammad - Wikipedia

Those points are irrelevant to whether Muhammed's message was from God or not.

What kind of food for the soul are we eating?
Food prepared by a pedophile, child molester?
And you would accept the idea that God through Gabriel spoke to him?
Where is integrity here?

So the Quran is a no brainer here.
You know who is much credible - the work of 2 guys from a child molester or
The work of 40 contributors over a span of 1,500 years - all with the same idea and united
Because God was at the helm.

None of those points have bearing as evidence as to who spoke to God. As I said, integrity has nothing to do with whether someone has spoken to god or not.

Ecclesiastes 1 New International Version (NIV)
The words of the Teacher, son of David, king in Jerusalem:

“Meaningless! Meaningless!”
says the Teacher.
“Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless.”

With such authority and introduction - God was left out in Ecclesiastes - that is so wrong.
Who is really working with Solomon? I don't want to give opinions, I just like to make funny or side comments and include pictures sometimes to make it lively. From the Bible!

View attachment 39976

1 Kings 3:5-15 New International Version (NIV)
At Gibeon the Lord appeared to Solomon during the night in a dream, and God said, “Ask for whatever you want me to give you.”

Solomon answered, “You have shown great kindness to your servant, my father David, because he was faithful to you and righteous and upright in heart. You have continued this great kindness to him and have given him a son to sit on his throne this very day.

“Now, Lord my God, you have made your servant king in place of my father David. But I am only a little child and do not know how to carry out my duties. Your servant is here among the people you have chosen, a great people, too numerous to count or number. So give your servant a discerning heart to govern your people and to distinguish between right and wrong. For who is able to govern this great people of yours?”

The Lord was pleased that Solomon had asked for this. So God said to him, “Since you have asked for this and not for long life or wealth for yourself, nor have asked for the death of your enemies but for discernment in administering justice, I will do what you have asked. I will give you a wise and discerning heart, so that there will never have been anyone like you, nor will there ever be. Moreover, I will give you what you have not asked for—both wealth and honor—so that in your lifetime you will have no equal among kings. And if you walk in obedience to me and keep my decrees and commands as David your father did, I will give you a long life.” Then Solomon awoke—and he realized it had been a dream.

He returned to Jerusalem, stood before the ark of the Lord’s covenant and sacrificed burnt offerings and fellowship offerings. Then he gave a feast for all his court.

So God gave him a wise and discerning heart - that God given wisdom to write Proverbs and Ecclesiastes.
A wisdom, the likes you have never seen, that he alone possessed and nobody else did.

Solomon was so wise yet he married multiple women and started following there Gods. certainly there were others who were wiser and didn't follow in those footsteps of his. God gave him wisdom, and then he wrote the books independent of God using that wisdom, so God wasn't the author of his words.

Luke 1 New International Version (NIV)
Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.


I do not see the problem here. Apostle Luke wrote Luke and Acts of the Apostles.

Before Jesus Christ was crucified, died and taken up to heaven. He promised something to his apostles:

John 14:26 New International Version (NIV)
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

So Jesus Christ promised to send the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit will remind his apostles of everything he said. So Luke with the fire of the Holy Spirit in him, decided to write an orderly account - I don't see the problem here.

How will the Holy Spirit teach? With a black board, teach from home or what?

When did Jesus send the Holy Spirit?

According to Luke in

Acts 2:1-4 New International Version (NIV)
When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

This was in response to your point that "Unlike the Bible, those written in the books of the Bible were not collected from those who “heard” it from the prophets and apostles, but what the prophets and apostles themselves heard from God because they themselves who wrote it."

The writer of Luke says "they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word"

Also, if everything was brought back to memory then an investigation wouldn't have been needed. Yet Luke did that. The information in his book consists of hand me down knowledge, hence why it is so detailed compared to the others.

 

[MJFlores]

No, it is not a fact.

Yes. That is what the bible claims Jesus said.

Those points are irrelevant to whether Muhammed's message was from God or not.


None of those points have bearing as evidence as to who spoke to God. As I said, integrity has nothing to do with whether someone has spoken to god or not.



Solomon was so wise yet he married multiple women and started following there Gods. certainly there were others who were wiser and didn't follow in those footsteps of his. God gave him wisdom, and then he wrote the books independent of God using that wisdom, so God wasn't the author of his words.




This was in response to your point that "Unlike the Bible, those written in the books of the Bible were not collected from those who “heard” it from the prophets and apostles, but what the prophets and apostles themselves heard from God because they themselves who wrote it."

The writer of Luke says "they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word"

Also, if everything was brought back to memory then an investigation wouldn't have been needed. Yet Luke did that. The information in his book consists of hand me down knowledge, hence why it is so detailed compared to the others.

The Holy Spirit will remind Jesus' apostles of the things he said to them - no memory involve? Hello?
Are people expecting the HS will possess them like an evil spirit and start writing or give them a USB?
Someone in America was given a golden plate and lost it.

That is the reaction I was expecting - people love false prophets and that is written in the Bible.
If nothing was written then I would not be expecting.

People would normally choose an evil man over a good man that is the trend in the world

Jeremiah 23:33 New International Version (NIV)
“When these people, or a prophet or a priest, ask you, ‘What is the message from the Lord?’ say to them, ‘What message? I will forsake you, declares the Lord.’


Luke 6:26 New International Version (NIV)
Woe to you when everyone speaks well of you,
for that is how their ancestors treated the false prophets.

 

[MJFlores]

I said: Is it a fact that Jesus Christ was taken to heaven around 33 AD?

You said:

No, it is not a fact.

Islam views: The issue of the crucifixion, death and resurrection of Jesus (Isa) is rejected by Muslims, but similar to Christians they believe that Jesus ascended to heaven and will, according to hadith,[1] return before the end of time. Muslims believe Jesus was not crucified, but was raised bodily to heaven by God. [2]:41

Islamic views on Jesus' death - Wikipedia

The Quran mentions the Torah, the Zabur ("Psalms") and the Injil ("Gospel") as being revealed by God to the prophets Moses, David and Jesus respectively in the same way the Quran was revealed to Muhammad, the final prophet and messenger of God according to Muslims.

Islamic view of the Bible - Wikipedia


According to the Quran, Muhammad is the last in a chain of prophets sent by Allah (33:40). The name "Muhammad" is mentioned four times in the Quran and the name "Ahmad" (another variant of the name of Muhammad) is mentioned one time.

Muhammad in the Quran - Wikipedia

He is thus the most mentioned person in the Quran by reference; 25 times by the name Isa, third-person 48 times, first-person 35 times, and the rest as titles and attributes.

Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia

It seems that the Quran backs the Bible up while the Bible doesn't give an iota about the Quran. The Quran mentions Jesus more that Muhammad. So I guess the Bible wins hands down.

 

[Samael_Khan]

The Holy Spirit will remind Jesus' apostles of the things he said to them - no memory involve? Hello?
Are people expecting the HS will possess them like an evil spirit and start writing or give them a USB?
Someone in America was given a golden plate and lost it.

That is the reaction I was expecting - people love false prophets and that is written in the Bible.
If nothing was written then I would not be expecting.

People would normally choose an evil man over a good man that is the trend in the world

Jeremiah 23:33 New International Version (NIV)
“When these people, or a prophet or a priest, ask you, ‘What is the message from the Lord?’ say to them, ‘What message? I will forsake you, declares the Lord.’


Luke 6:26 New International Version (NIV)
Woe to you when everyone speaks well of you,
for that is how their ancestors treated the false prophets.

I think you are misunderstanding my viewpoint of the narrative.

It is a question of who was at pentecost when the Holy Spirit fell on them. Luke was not one of the 12 and the Acts doesn't say that he was there at Pentecost. He did not meet Jesus therefore was not taught by him, therefore there was nothing for him to remember. So he had to get hand me down information from the Apostles and other eyewitnesses. That is why the Apostles preached, as preaching about Jesus is about handing others information. It is also interesting that to qualify as an apostle one had to be chosen from those who witnessed Jesus Resurrection.

Those quotes are justifications for many groups being from God, because many cults and religious groups suffer from persecution complexes. That is the same mentality that Jim Jones and David Koresh had.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I said: Is it a fact that Jesus Christ was taken to heaven around 33 AD?

You said:


Islam views: The issue of the crucifixion, death and resurrection of Jesus (Isa) is rejected by Muslims, but similar to Christians they believe that Jesus ascended to heaven and will, according to hadith,[1] return before the end of time. Muslims believe Jesus was not crucified, but was raised bodily to heaven by God. [2]:41

Islamic views on Jesus' death - Wikipedia

The Quran mentions the Torah, the Zabur ("Psalms") and the Injil ("Gospel") as being revealed by God to the prophets Moses, David and Jesus respectively in the same way the Quran was revealed to Muhammad, the final prophet and messenger of God according to Muslims.

Islamic view of the Bible - Wikipedia


According to the Quran, Muhammad is the last in a chain of prophets sent by Allah (33:40). The name "Muhammad" is mentioned four times in the Quran and the name "Ahmad" (another variant of the name of Muhammad) is mentioned one time.

Muhammad in the Quran - Wikipedia

He is thus the most mentioned person in the Quran by reference; 25 times by the name Isa, third-person 48 times, first-person 35 times, and the rest as titles and attributes.

Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia

It seems that the Quran backs the Bible up while the Bible doesn't give an iota about the Quran. The Quran mentions Jesus more that Muhammad. So I guess the Bible wins hands down.

And? I am confused as why you mentioned this to me?