How do we know the Bible was not written by demons?

[MJFlores]

He did not meet Jesus therefore was not taught by him, therefore there was nothing for him to remember. So he had to get hand me down information from the Apostles and other eyewitnesses. That is why the Apostles preached, as preaching about Jesus is about handing others information. It is also interesting that to qualify as an apostle one had to be chosen from those who witnessed Jesus Resurrection.

If you are outside the Apostle's circle - you are not bona fide
If you did not see Jesus Christ, touch his hand, walk beside the man of Galilee -
you nothing but a second rate trying hard copycat.
Since when did this rule came out? Is that in the Bible?
What is in the Bible is this - and this mention by Jesus himself:

John 20:29 New International Version (NIV)

Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

The first century church also had problems on how you think.
They had problems on who to follow. Maybe some of them want to follow Peter because he saw Christ, talked to Christ or maybe even pooped with Christ - hence he is more credible than Paul. Some would follow Paul and another would follow another. So Paul wrote his letter to them:

1 Corinthians 1:11-19 New International Version (NIV)

My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.”

Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”

And? I am confused as why you mentioned this to me?

I said it was a fact. You said it was not. But the Quran which you are trying to supplant over the Bible does not agree with you.

And these guys are nodding their heads in agreement.

 

[Samael_Khan]

If you are outside the Apostle's circle - you are not bona fide
If you did not see Jesus Christ, touch his hand, walk beside the man of Galilee -
you nothing but a second rate trying hard copycat.
Since when did this rule came out? Is that in the Bible?
What is in the Bible is this - and this mention by Jesus himself:

John 20:29 New International Version (NIV)

Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

The first century church also had problems on how you think.
They had problems on who to follow. Maybe some of them want to follow Peter because he saw Christ, talked to Christ or maybe even pooped with Christ - hence he is more credible than Paul. Some would follow Paul and another would follow another. So Paul wrote his letter to them:

1 Corinthians 1:11-19 New International Version (NIV)

My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.”

Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”

So Luke was a copycat?

I said it was a fact. You said it was not. But the Quran which you are trying to supplant over the Bible does not agree with you.

And these guys are nodding their heads in agreement.

If it is just a claim then it is not a fact. Doesn't matter what book says it.

Also, I wasn't using the Quran to supplant the Bible, I dunno where you get that from. I was pointing out that both make claims therefore one cannot just take claims as truth, which is what you are doing. It was a comparison not a supplanting.

I think the problem that you are having is that you cannot distinguish between claims, facts and evidence.

A claim is:
an assertion that something is true.

Fact:
a thing that is known or proved to be true.

Evidence:
the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

Claims are not the foundation of evidence, facts are.

All your scriptural referencing only shows the fact the the Bible you are using says such a thing. It doesn't show that what it says is true.

So your example of the link between Revelations and the Catholic Church is a good one because it has outside facts supporting its claims therefore those facts constitute as evidence for the prophecy possible having truth to it.

The bible and Quran say that Jesus has ascended to heaven, but there is no evidence for this because nobody is able to go to heaven and see such a thing, hence it is not a fact.

 

[MJFlores]

The above, unfortunately, are just claims by the book. The evidence needed to make it clear that there is a link is not the Bible's words itself. Even if we grant that the prophets and Jesus communicated with a supernatural presence, how did they even verify that they were speaking to God? It is a similar case with Muhammed, Allah and the Quran. He received revelation from someone who claimed to be an angel of God delivering God's message, but why did he take the supernatural beings word for it? (Well he didn't at first, but then became convinced of stuff because of another persons claim). There are many alternative options to consider.

I think this is where you introduced the Quran

Regarding those hadiths, they have nothing to do with whether Muhammed actually received a Revelation from God or not. They are supposedly reports made by those living at the time and trusted because of a chain of narration over many years and whether they are true or not is questionable. In addition they aren't necessarily to be followed but to shed light on how they lived at the time, which is why there are many schools of thought in Sunni Islam. Those hadiths are also only relevant to Sunni muslims and not Shia muslims, who have a different set. Additionally they were compiled years after Muhammed lived. The Quran itself is independent of the Hadith.

Then I showed the hadith with some gross info. Above was your reaction.

You were still defending the book.

My point when mentioning Muhammed was not addressing prophecy, it was about accepting claims from someone who said they received what they wrote down from God. It was addressed to your response about me questioning the link between the bible and God.

Those points are irrelevant to whether Muhammed's message was from God or not.

So Luke was a copycat?

I believe it was your suggestion that Luke is a copycat.
I do not believe he is one. Even if he did not see Jesus - he served and believed
I, myself did not see Jesus, never been to Jerusalem,
I am Asian and never seen Jesus go up in heaven.
But the freaking thing is I believe - its in the Bible.
Because like as I have said, there are prophecies [not guesses or coincidental events] that happened and recorded in the Bible.

Luke has all the blessing and authority to be an apostle.
Paul recognizes him as such. Peter recognizes Paul in his letters.
He is appointed to be the servant of the Lord, so I do not see the problem.
If what was written in the Book of Luke and the Acts of the Apostles does not conform or contradict the other Gospels or the Old Testament writings then give me a ring.
But I bet there aren't any.

It is God who willed it together - that is how he protects the Book
There was a time when the Bible was banned for the common man to read.

Again that was expected as a prophecy.

Also, I wasn't using the Quran to supplant the Bible, I dunno where you get that from.

The bible and Quran say that Jesus has ascended to heaven, but there is no evidence for this because nobody is able to go to heaven and see such a thing, hence it is not a fact.

It is not important for anybody to witness Jesus Christ's ascension to heaven.
It is written and what everyone won't miss is his return someday.

Revelation 1:7 New International Version (NIV)
“Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”
So shall it be! Amen.

Again it is a promised prophecy.
For now what is important for me is to do good works

 

[Samael_Khan]

I think this is where you introduced the Quran

Yes, and it was to show that it also makes claims, therefore we cannot rely on claims as evidence, because then we might as well believe in any book just because it claims things. Notice, that with regards to the Quran I also said that it makes many claims. And my ending point was that there was many options to consider, not saying that the Quran supplants the Bible.

Then I showed the hadith with some gross info. Above was your reaction.

You were still defending the book.

You are failing to realise that the Quran is separate to the Hadith. And there are two sects of Islam with two different sets of hadiths, therefore, using one set to discredit the Quran does not necessarily hold true because one has to determine which set of Hadith is accurate in the first place. So by pointing out flaws in Sahih-Al-Bukhari, you would just be destroying the Sunni narrative but not the Shia narrative. Also even if granted that Muhammed did all those things, that does not disqualify him from having communicated with God or that the Quran is true. Your argument and the conclusion you made does not follow. If your conclusion is inaccurate regarding any religion and the conclusions you make I will defend that religion. I would do the same if people told inaccuracies about Christianity, Baha'i and other religions and their books.

I believe it was your suggestion that Luke is a copycat.
I do not believe he is one. Even if he did not see Jesus - he served and believed
I, myself did not see Jesus, never been to Jerusalem,
I am Asian and never seen Jesus go up in heaven.
But the freaking thing is I believe - its in the Bible.
Because like as I have said, there are prophecies [not guesses or coincidental events] that happened and recorded in the Bible.

Luke has all the blessing and authority to be an apostle.
Paul recognizes him as such. Peter recognizes Paul in his letters.
He is appointed to be the servant of the Lord, so I do not see the problem.
If what was written in the Book of Luke and the Acts of the Apostles does not conform or contradict the other Gospels or the Old Testament writings then give me a ring.
But I bet there aren't any.

It is God who willed it together - that is how he protects the Book
There was a time when the Bible was banned for the common man to read.

Again that was expected as a prophecy.

It appears I misread what you said, as you weren't making a statement but making an intro to a posing a question. My saying that Luke was using hand me down knowledge (which he admits to) is a response to you saying that that isn't the case with the Bible. That is all there is to it. No need to think that it was inspiration at all on God's part as he doesn't claim it is such.

It is not important for anybody to witness Jesus Christ's ascension to heaven.
It is written and what everyone won't miss is his return someday.

Revelation 1:7 New International Version (NIV)
“Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”
So shall it be! Amen.

Again it is a promised prophecy.
For now what is important for me is to do good works

Someone witnessing Jesus ascension to heaven is important if you want to say that his ascension was a fact, otherwise it is merely a belief.

 

[MJFlores]

Someone witnessing Jesus ascension to heaven is important if you want to say that his ascension was a fact, otherwise it is merely a belief.

Nobody witnessed the Big Bang so it is a belief.
Also Evolution, and Pangaea - we seem to have an absence of witnesses

Who witnessed Jesus ascension to heaven?

Acts 1:7-12 New International Version (NIV)
He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

Then the apostles returned to Jerusalem from the hill called the Mount of Olives, a Sabbath day’s walk from the city.

From the Bible - they witnessed Jesus taken up to heaven.

Now how about the various science books - who saw the Big Bang?
It is really a bang too big to ignore, isn't it?

 

[Samael_Khan]

Nobody witnessed the Big Bang so it is a belief.
Also Evolution, and Pangaea - we seem to have an absence of witnesses

As far as I know the Big Bang is a conclusion based on current evidence. The concept will evolve in the future. So i don't think it falls under fact.
Evolution makes accurate predictions so parts of the process is a fact because it can make predictions in the real world, but it is also under constant refinement. If enough evidence arises, it could be debunked and replaced. You should actually understand this because you use prophecy as evidence for the bible being true, because prophecy makes predictions, and if the predictions are accurate then that gives credibility to what is written. The difference is that scientists use predictions that can be repeated whereas prophecies are once off, or twice in dual prophecy.

Who witnessed Jesus ascension to heaven?

Acts 1:7-12 New International Version (NIV)
He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

Then the apostles returned to Jerusalem from the hill called the Mount of Olives, a Sabbath day’s walk from the city.

From the Bible - they witnessed Jesus taken up to heaven.

Now how about the various science books - who saw the Big Bang?
It is really a bang too big to ignore, isn't it?

They saw Jesus from ground level disappear into the sky with angels. They assumed that was him going to heaven. They didn't actually see him in heaven.

The difference between your view and the Big Bang and Evolution is that they are looking at outside evidence beyond the claims people make, and based on that evidence their view changes all the time, whereas your view is the equivalent of them saying "Darwin said it in his book, therefore it is true."

 

[MJFlores]

you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

Then the apostles returned to Jerusalem

As far as I know the Big Bang is a conclusion based on current evidence.

You are telling me you can't find any witness to connect to your evidence?

They saw Jesus from ground level disappear into the sky with angels. They assumed that was him going to heaven. They didn't actually see him in heaven.

Showed you the witnesses - in verbatim - witnesses

 

[Samael_Khan]

You are telling me you can't find any witness to connect to your evidence?



Showed you the witnesses - in verbatim - witnesses

They saw Jesus from ground level disappear into the sky with angels. They assumed that was him going to heaven. They didn't actually see him in heaven.

They did not see where he went to.

So case not rested.

 

[danieldemol]

Revelation 1:7 New International Version (NIV)
“Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”

I’m taking the liberty of bolding something you may have missed, “even those who pierced Him”

Those who pierced Jesus are long dead, how will they see Jesus coming?

 

[MJFlores]

They saw Jesus from ground level disappear into the sky with angels. They assumed that was him going to heaven. They didn't actually see him in heaven.

They did not see where he went to.

So case not rested.

Even these guys don't know where the heck this plane is going.

Unless they talked to the pilot for some info.

Jesus the Christ was taken up to heaven - not through teleportation or some Star Trek method but something like he was beamed up. Heaven is a far away place it is not you average stratosphere or a cloudy environment with pearly gates, it is a place far far far away.

Acts 7:51-60 New International Version (NIV)
“You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit! Was there ever a prophet your ancestors did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him— you who have received the law that was given through angels but have not obeyed it.”

When the members of the Sanhedrin heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him. But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their coats at the feet of a young man named Saul.

While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” When he had said this, he fell asleep.

You need an eye witness account who saw Jesus the Christ in heaven? Jesus connected with him like we connect remotely in Zoom, Webex or what have you.

I’m taking the liberty of bolding something you may have missed, “even those who pierced Him”

Those who pierced Jesus are long dead, how will they see Jesus coming?

Where are those people who pierced the Lord Jesus Christ?
They died or in the bible, another description is they fell asleep. And they have long decomposed, long turned to dust - even their bones have turned to dusts but the Bible says this will happen one day:

Daniel 12:2 New International Version (NIV)
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

And when they awake, why will they be awaken?
What will they see?

Revelation 20:11-15 New International Version (NIV)
Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Who is this one seating on a great while throne?

Matthew 19:28 New International Version (NIV)
Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

That is how this will come to fruition.

Revelation 1:7 New International Version (NIV)
“Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”
So shall it be! Amen.

Everyone of us, me, you, the rest of the living population and those who died today and the many days before this day will be judged. We will face the Lord Jesus - whether you know him or not, whether yo have conflicting views with him or not, whether you believe him or not - no exceptions - the Son of Man will judge and will open the books [the book of life and the book of works] to determine if you are in or out.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Even these guys don't know where the heck this plane is going.

Unless they talked to the pilot for some info.

Jesus the Christ was taken up to heaven - not through teleportation or some Star Trek method but something like he was beamed up. Heaven is a far away place it is not you average stratosphere or a cloudy environment with pearly gates, it is a place far far far away.

Acts 7:51-60 New International Version (NIV)
“You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit! Was there ever a prophet your ancestors did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him— you who have received the law that was given through angels but have not obeyed it.”

When the members of the Sanhedrin heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him. But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

View attachment 40043

At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their coats at the feet of a young man named Saul.

While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” When he had said this, he fell asleep.

You need an eye witness account who saw Jesus the Christ in heaven? Jesus connected with him like we connect remotely in Zoom, Webex or what have you.

When the people ask the pilot where the plane is going, the fact is that he told them that it was going to a certain destination. Whether it actually went to that destination or not is not a fact if we are only relying on what the hearers. To make it a fact a few people will have to follow its flight path or wait at the destination, or track it digitally some how.

The Bible doesn't give the mechanism as regarding how Jesus ascended, so it could be by technology that we do not know, if the story is true. Future technology would look like magic to people 2 millenniums ago because they do not understand how it works. The Bible doesn't give a detailed explanation of what heaven looks like, how it was constructed, whether there are pearly gates or not, whether the environment is cloudy, etc. So I don't see how you can make the statements of what you say it is not so confidently.

One person seeing a vision of something does not make anything a fact. If we grant validity to people who see things, then we have to then say that what people today see in hallucinations are facts. The fact in your example would be that the bible claims that Stephen saw a vision. Or, if the event actually happened, that Stephen claimed to have seen Jesus in heaven.

By the way, if eye witness testimony is very reliable, do you then believe that alien abductions happen?

Alien abduction - Wikipedia

 

[MJFlores]

By the way, if eye witness testimony is very reliable, do you then believe that alien abductions happen?

Alien abduction - Wikipedia

UFO and Alien Abductions
They sure make good films out of that.
I would pay good money to watch those but believing them?
Would be in the same level of my belief in chewing gums.
Chew it in the mouth and never swallow it.
Spit it out after use.

When the people ask the pilot where the plane is going, the fact is that he told them that it was going to a certain destination. Whether it actually went to that destination or not is not a fact if we are only relying on what the hearers. To make it a fact a few people will have to follow its flight path or wait at the destination, or track it digitally some how.

The Bible doesn't give the mechanism as regarding how Jesus ascended, so it could be by technology that we do not know, if the story is true. Future technology would look like magic to people 2 millenniums ago because they do not understand how it works. The Bible doesn't give a detailed explanation of what heaven looks like, how it was constructed, whether there are pearly gates or not, whether the environment is cloudy, etc. So I don't see how you can make the statements of what you say it is not so confidently.

The Bible is not a science book that it is detailed as to how the heck that was possible.
It's purpose is different and it is also disclosed in the Bible itself.

John 20:30-31 New International Version (NIV)
Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

You saw from me that the Bible is alive and active when:
You demanded witnesses and the Bible gave you witnesses
You demanded witness, who saw Jesus in heaven and the Bible gave you the witness
These recorded facts did not pop up on my bidding but these were recorded thousands of years ago.
I just showed you.

One person seeing a vision of something does not make anything a fact. If we grant validity to people who see things, then we have to then say that what people today see in hallucinations are facts. The fact in your example would be that the bible claims that Stephen saw a vision. Or, if the event actually happened, that Stephen claimed to have seen Jesus in heaven.

Acts 7:54-59 New International Version (NIV)
When the members of the Sanhedrin heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him. But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their coats at the feet of a young man named Saul.

While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

How can they see what Stephen saw when they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices?

Stephen gave up his life and the words of a dying man is credible even on some jurisprudence.

A dying declaration is considered credible and trustworthy evidence based upon the general belief that most people who know that they are about to die do not lie. ... ' Or 'truth sits upon the lips of a dying man. ' It is an exception to the principle of excluding hearsay evidence rule.

Dying Declaration-Section 32(1) of Indian Evidence Act

 

[Samael_Khan]

UFO and Alien Abductions
They sure make good films out of that.
I would pay good money to watch those but believing them?
Would be in the same level of my belief in chewing gums.
Chew it in the mouth and never swallow it.
Spit it out after use.

Doesn't address the question though. Because their are many people who witnessed or claimed to have experienced alien abductions. By your reasoning then we should say that alien abductions are a fact.

The Bible is not a science book that it is detailed as to how the heck that was possible.
It's purpose is different and it is also disclosed in the Bible itself.

Exactly. So you shouldn't be making such claims about heaven.

You saw from me that the Bible is alive and active when:
You demanded witnesses and the Bible gave you witnesses
You demanded witness, who saw Jesus in heaven and the Bible gave you the witness
These recorded facts did not pop up on my bidding but these were recorded thousands of years ago.
I just showed you.

Again, those are not recorded facts, as I have explained.


View attachment 40073

Acts 7:54-59 New International Version (NIV)
When the members of the Sanhedrin heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him. But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their coats at the feet of a young man named Saul.

While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

How can they see what Stephen saw when they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices?

Stephen gave up his life and the words of a dying man is credible even on some jurisprudence.

A dying declaration is considered credible and trustworthy evidence based upon the general belief that most people who know that they are about to die do not lie. ... ' Or 'truth sits upon the lips of a dying man. ' It is an exception to the principle of excluding hearsay evidence rule.

Dying Declaration-Section 32(1) of Indian Evidence Act[/QUOTE] Who said anything about lying? He could have just been delusional.

 

[MJFlores]

Doesn't address the question though. Because their are many people who witnessed or claimed to have experienced alien abductions. By your reasoning then we should say that alien abductions are a fact.

Chewing gum at best

Exactly. So you shouldn't be making such claims about heaven.

The Bible have 12 witnesses
Transcript of events recorded 2,000 years ago

Big Bang Theory have zero witness
Thought of sometime 1927 by Georges Lemaître

Again, those are not recorded facts, as I have explained.

Who said anything about lying? He could have just been delusional.

Acts 7:54-59 New International Version (NIV)
When the members of the Sanhedrin heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him. But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their coats at the feet of a young man named Saul.

While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

I believe Stephen carried himself with dignity and with proper decorum while the Jewish goons were furious and gnashing their teeth. Stephen invited them to look - “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.” but instead of looking they did the dumbest thing:

covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices

 

[Samael_Khan]

View attachment 40086

Chewing gum at best

Reason being?

The Bible have 12 witnesses
Transcript of events recorded 2,000 years ago

Big Bang Theory have zero witness
Thought of sometime 1927 by Georges Lemaître

And therefore the Big Bang theory isn't a fact. It is the current conclusion based off of present observable facts.

Acts 7:54-59 New International Version (NIV)
When the members of the Sanhedrin heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him. But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their coats at the feet of a young man named Saul.

While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

I believe Stephen carried himself with dignity and with proper decorum while the Jewish goons were furious and gnashing their teeth. Stephen invited them to look - “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.” but instead of looking they did the dumbest thing:

covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices

And?

 

[MJFlores]

Reason being?

And therefore the Big Bang theory isn't a fact. It is the current conclusion based off of present observable facts.

And?

 

[Samael_Khan]

Okaaaayyy.....

You still haven't given a valid response to why you accept eyewitnesses as evidence when it comes to your religion but reject that when it comes to UFO abductions as just replying "chewing gum" means nothing.

You bring up the Big Bang strawman yet from what I have read (which is limited) the Big Bang is the general hypothesis but is not a fact yet because there are too many mysteries surrounding it. It also cannot be reproduced therefore it is a deduction based off of current evidence.

Your last point regarding Stephen is the Sanhedrin getting upset, as if that proves anything. Was the writer of the account in the building when all these things happened to Stephen? It is a claimed event, which claims that Stephen saw a vision and Stephen's vision could have been an hallucination.

So, case not dismissed.

 

[MJFlores]

So, case not dismissed.

I think it is time to dance!

We can conclude that the Bible is no demon book.
But I can assure everybody it is alive and active.

Hebrews 4:12 New International Version (NIV)
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

It was able to show you that the men of Galilee particularly the 11 apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ saw Jesus taken up to heaven.

It was able to show you that an apostle Stephen saw the Lord Jesus Christ in heaven.

I believe these are material points that other immaterial points like ufos, abductions and the big bang theory are just diversions, distractions and side shows. Even if I would answer these trivial topics, it would not affect the thread's topic - how do we know the bible was not written by demons?

So I guess, it's time to party!

 

[Samael_Khan]

I think it is time to dance!

We can conclude that the Bible is no demon book.
But I can assure everybody it is alive and active.

Hebrews 4:12 New International Version (NIV)
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

There is no reason to conclude such, as there is no reason to say that demonic book cannot be alive and active, because other books have affected other people, from various genres and religions.

It was able to show you that the men of Galilee particularly the 11 apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ saw Jesus taken up to heaven.

View attachment 40115View attachment 40116

It was able to show you that an apostle Stephen saw the Lord Jesus Christ in heaven.

You have shown me claims of people who weren't witnesses make claims about other people claiming that they saw Jesus in heaven through visions or travel in the air. They are second hand claims at best.

I believe these are material points that other immaterial points like ufos, abductions and the big bang theory are just diversions, distractions and side shows. Even if I would answer these trivial topics, it would not affect the thread's topic - how do we know the bible was not written by demons?

So I guess, it's time to party!

Your eyewitness points are the equivalent of eyewitnesses of UFO abductions because it uses the same reasoning to determining what is a fact. It is just to prove that eye witness experiences do not prove anything when it comes to extraordinary claims which could have alternative explanations that we know happen.

I like the last muppet gif. They are actually dancing to the beat of a song I am listening to.

 

[MJFlores]

Your eyewitness points are the equivalent of eyewitnesses of UFO abductions because it uses the same reasoning to determining what is a fact. It is just to prove that eye witness experiences do not prove anything when it comes to extraordinary claims which could have alternative explanations that we know happen.

I believe what we have discussed happened 2,000 years ago more or less
Recorded in a span of 1,500 years, in a set of books we call the Bible.
Which was banned from being known to the common man during the Dark Ages.
But by being the word of God as it is, was not defeated
The prophecy that the Bible [OT & NT] will be subject to an intense ban is written in Revelation 11:3-12

Censorship of the Bible includes restrictions and prohibition of possessing, reading, or using the Bible in general or any particular translation of it. Violators of so-called "Bible bans" have been punished by killing, imprisonment, forced labor, and banishment, as well as by burning or confiscating the Bible or Bibles used or distributed. Censorship of the Bible occurred in historical times and is still going on today.

The Index Librorum Prohibitorum[a] of the Catholic Church included various translations of the Bible. In most cases, the bans on pious lay people possessing or using Bibles were related to vernacular Bible editions. Clerics were never forbidden to possess the Vulgate Bible translation in the Latin language.

From the point of view of Protestantism, the topic mostly refers to historical provisions of the Catholic Church against reading or possessing Bibles not of the Latin Vulgate translation, or in the case of the laity, possessing any Bibles at all, including the Vulgate. From a Catholic point of view, one rarely speaks of Bible bans, because in their view the attempts by the hierarchy to prevent opposing biblical interpretations were justified. From a Catholic point of view, the censorship of the Bible was justified both by restricting Bibles from those lacking instruction and by censoring translations thought to encourage deviations from official doctrines.[1]

Censorship of the Bible - Wikipedia

Unique in Doctrine

The doctrines of the Bible are not influenced by the superstitions of the pagans that dominated every culture and city during the time of its writing. Its doctrines are unique.


Unique in Accuracy

Accuracy of the Bible cannot be taken for granted. Before the discoveries in archeology and science, the Bible was criticized as historical and even scientifically inaccurate. However, in view of modern discoveries, the Bible is no longer view of as inaccurate, but many are convinced of the accuracy of the Bible in terms of geography, topography, history and even in science.


Unique in its influence on Literature

“The Bible has permeated the literature of the Western world to a degree that cannot easily be measured. More than any other single body of writing, ancient or modern, it has provided writers from the Middle Ages on with a store of symbols, ideas, and ways of perceiving reality. This influence can be traced not only in texts that deal directly with biblical characters or topics, but also in a vast number of poems, plays, and other writings that are not overtly biblical in theme but that testify to a biblical view of humankind and the world.”


Unique in its influence on civilization

“The Bible is one of the most important documents in the history of civilization, not only because of its status as holy inspired Scripture, but also because of its pervasive influence on Western thought. As the predominant world view for at least fourteen centuries, Christianity and its great central text played a major role in the formation of Western culture.”


Unique in Its Survival through Criticism

From the beginning, the Bible had always gone through severe criticism, but as time passed and discoveries were made, the Bible still stands as the “Sacred Scripture,” while criticisms come and go.


Unique in form

The Bible tells the truth, focusing on reality, not fantasy or myth. Unlike ancient documents or records, “The Bible deals very frankly with the sins of its characters, even when those sins reflect badly on God’s chosen people, leaders, and the biblical writers themselves.”


The Bible is Inspired by God

But, above all these, what makes the Bible unique from any other religious books? The Bible is inspired by God:

“All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.” (II Tim. 3:16-17, NKJV)

This is what makes the Bible far beyond and above all other books written by men.