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Featured How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by ayin, Dec 29, 2020.

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  1. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    @Harel13

    Or, alternately, "God's name is Mark" because the alef is "el" and the tav means "mark."

    I see God's name as "Mark" to be metaphorical because God's name is Steve.
     
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  2. ayin

    ayin Member

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    Why don't you see the figurative?
    For if the blood of goats and oxen and the ashes of a young cow, sprinkled on the defiled, sanctifies to purity of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your consciences from dead works to serve the living God!
    Heb. 9:13-14
     
  3. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    Why don't you see how ridiculous the figurative you invent is?
    I'll quote Harry Potter if you'd like. Or maybe some Hamlet. It is about as relevant.
     
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  4. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    This doesn't say that God can become a man.
     
  5. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Elohim is a plural word. The Jewish word Elohim hints at the Trinity. It's the plural form of the word eloah. The word Elohim is in the very first sentence of the Bible.
     
  6. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    This isn't very convincing. You'll need something stronger than a chart on a website to change the name of the letter from Aleph to El.
    You're claiming that God is symbolically called an Ox, but your link doesn't show that at all. Where on the link does it say that? In fact, the link makes a stronger case to claim the opposite. Besides, if you're claiming that Jesus was an Ox, then that weakens the claim that Jesus was the lamb led to slaughter in Isaiah 53:7. So which is it? Is Jesus a lamb or an ox?
     
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  7. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    God became a man when he appeared to Abraham in the tent. The Bible doesn't describe Abraham's experience as a vision. Abraham plead to God for Sodom and Gommorah. He had a relationship with God. It wasnt a vision.
     
  8. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    And yet, anytime the Tanach talks about the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, it always uses the singular.
     
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  9. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    If you'd like to discuss it, please quote the verse and look for the name of God in the verse. If I recall correctly the verse says "messanger".
     
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  10. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    You don't know much of Hebrew, do you?
    The word elohim can be a singular or a plural. One looks at the verb, pronoun or adjective to see. In the first sentence of the bible, the verb is in the singular so the noun is in the singular.
     
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  11. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Are you looking for a figurative Messiah or a real one?
    Why don't you see that this is circular reasoning?

    Bringing a quote from the New Testament only shows that the author of the New Testament believes your claim. The New Testament can't be used as a evidence of its own claims. It's the weakest of the weak arguments.
     
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  12. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The Spirit of the Lord hovering over the water mirrors the Holy Spirit breathing life into Jesus.
     
  13. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Adam was a Christian, because Job was around before Christianity, yet he believed in the coming mediator and redeemer Messiah.
     
  14. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Messianic Jews and Hebrew Christians often use the term Yeshua, but they don't believe that it's a name more sacred than the English Jesus.
     
  15. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    In John 8:58 Jesus said before Abraham was, I am. He wasn't talking about God in the triune sense all the time.
     
  16. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    In the Bible verse let us make man in our image, Elohim is used in the plural. The verse about God creating the heaven and the earth does not reference Elohim.
     
  17. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that verse has a plural, but it isn't involved with the word elohim. The text reads
    And Elohim said "Let us make man in our image". Elohim is still singular (as evidenced by the "said" verb which is in the singular). If I say to my class "let's make ice cream sundaes that we can eat" I am still singular.
     
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  18. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Elohim itself is a plural word. There doesn't have to be a mention of the Trinity for there to be a plural word.
     
  19. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The Son of God is sometimes called the angel of the Lord in the Old Testament, and angel means messenger.
     
  20. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    No, it is not a plural word. It is a word which can be plural and can be singular. When it is used as a singular, it is singular. When it is used as a plural, it is plural. English has words like this also:

    "Please give the fish its food"

    and

    "Please give the fish their food"

    In the first case, the word "fish" is a singular word. In the second, it is a plural word. The pronoun clarifies.
     
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