How are these Great Beings explained?

[Ingledsva]

The Law of God is for a union of Man and Woman, the consequence of not seeing and obeying Gods Laws is recorded in the Bible, this verse is clear on this matter;

Romans 1:26-28King James Version (KJV)
"26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;"

I will leave this subject there, in the end each person is to make their choices with what life gives them.

Regards Tony

Your quote is against Sacred Sex Idolatry - not homosexuals. This text is very specific.

Romans 1: tells us these are people having sex in worship of God in the form of animals, and that it is a RITE. Which means it is NOT about homosexuals. Sacred Prostitutes had sex with anything including animals.

Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four-footed beasts, and serpents.

Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:

~~ ~ NOTE: the people in 24 that dishonor their bodies, are the people WHO worship the Act of Creation in 25! Religious Sexuality! ~~~

Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of Deity into a lie, and worship and render religious homage to the "Act of Creation" more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

That is Sacred Sex.

YOU - can see from the words that they are talking about a RITE of SACRED SEX - WORSHIP!

Sacred Sex is a RITE performed in WORSHIP of a God, - and is thus IDOLATRY, - and worthy of death according to the Hebrew texts.

Homosexuality is not a RITE of WORSHIP to God as a bird or serpent, the Act of Creation.

*

 

[InvestigateTruth]

We would have to have a really stupid God to forget he made a creation where homosexuals can be born, and then condemn them to hell for being born that way!

*

I do not know, how you know He condemned them to Hell, but this is not Bahais believe. In Bahai belief, there is no physical Hell, only a state of being far from God is Hell. Obviously when people choose their own desires, over God, and love their own lust much more than God, it is them who choose to be far from God.

O MOVING FORM OF DUST!
I desire communion with thee, but thou wouldst put no trust in Me. The sword of thy rebellion hath felled the tree of thy hope. At all times I am near unto thee, but thou art ever far from Me. Imperishable glory I have chosen for thee, yet boundless shame thou hast chosen for thyself. While there is yet time, return, and lose not thy chance.



O SON OF MAN!
Sorrow not save that thou art far from Us. Rejoice not save that thou art drawing near and returning unto Us.


– Hidden Words of Bahaullah

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So - no prophecy to Bab and Bahá’u’lláh.

Where to some they are and those that see they are are working with heart and soul to bring Unity and Peace to all Humanity. Embracing all Faiths from our One God.

To the Muslim Divines of His day, that also said this of scripture, Baha'u'llah offered this stern advice;

"....Great God! Notwithstanding their acceptance of the truth of this tradition, these divines who are still doubtful of, and dispute about, the theological obscurities of their faith, yet claim to be the exponents of the subtleties of the law of God, and the expounders of the essential mysteries of His holy Word. They confidently assert that such traditions as indicate the advent of the expected Qá’im have not yet been fulfilled, whilst they themselves have failed to inhale the fragrance of the meaning of these traditions, and are still oblivious of the fact that all the signs foretold have come to pass, that the way of God’s holy Cause hath been revealed, and the concourse of the faithful, swift as lightning, are, even now, passing upon that way, whilst these foolish divines wait expecting to witness the signs foretold. Say, O ye foolish ones! Wait ye even as those before you are waiting!

It is God that fulfills Prophecy as God has so deemed.

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

What do these "facts" have to do with the question?

We are considering the scientic aspects human sexuality. The fundamental purpose of sexuality is highly relevant.

Why would you be surprised by low homosexual percentages?

Because where I come from the percentages have been presented as much higher.

We know IN THE WOMB - if certain chemicals kick in at different times, or not at all, - we end with babies all over the homosexual spectrum. Gay - Bi - transgender, born with both penis and vagina, etc. And those births with both penis and vagina prove it beyond a doubt. As do the studies of those children where they decided to go with the most prominent organ and remove the other, resulting in a lot of suicides - as the child was not that sex inside.

Are you referring to hermaphroditism dependant on production of testosterone or a genetic disorder? How does that relate to homosexual behaviour?

The majority of the animal kingdom has homosexuality.

I don't think so.

"Female hammerhead sharks can reproduce without having sex, scientists confirm. "

"The largest lizards in the world are capable of "virgin births".

Scientists report of two cases where female Komodo dragons have produced offspring without male contact." BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | 'Virgin births' for giant lizards

And of course other critters, like some fish, change sex in response to hormonal cycle or environmental changes.

Why are you comparing homosexuals to fish, komodo dragons, large lizards, and sharks?

In fact - with a little science, - two human females can produce a completely new healthy female with both of their DNA.

Males cannot do this - even with fake wombs, as mitochondrial DNA is needed for survival, - and found only in females.

So dispose of those pesky men, and with science woman can continue to propogate the species. OK

SO, - it isn't the way the Bible and other patriarchal religions says it is.

You certainly seem convinced that it isn't.

 

[Dawnofhope]

In bahai view, is heterosexuality a sexual orientation or an action?

The word heterosexual is used to describe individuals with heterosexual orientation, in a similar manner to homosexua being orientation.

Another unrelated question. In bahai, does god condemn gay people from having sex within marriage? (This isnt an face value question)

The action or practice of homosexuality is against Baha'i law and forbidden. It does not matter whether the couple is married or not.

 

[Dawnofhope]

With me (and referring to your other reply, thank you) it isn't the testimony of people and inspirations. If that were the case, both Zeus and Jesus would be worth worshiping because regardless if we can find evidence or what we want to accept as evidence, these two beings have been worshiped and still worshipped by many. I mean, Olodumare is a female god in the Yuruba tradition. This is practiced by many. Even here where I live, I know a few people who introduced me to this African practice. It's shrouded with Catholicism (Santeria) because of their history and our area, but it's pure African.

The teachings and stories are private. I know basic knowledge. Here is a good site Church of the Orishas Given their god does not interact with creation directly and I think their god is female, and not like abrahamic god, it makes more sense. Some of the stories about the Orishas (those spirits who work between humans and the creator) are real spirits. Real spirits of the ocean, etc.

You can find this history of the Yoruba religions existing today. The people like Christians still exist today. Like christianity, there is historical evidence "about" both beliefs. No evidence a been seen of the actual belief systems. For example, we only know about Jesus and Yemaya because of what is written. In Jesus case, we know he exist to the extent heis human. We know the Orisha Yemaya exist because the ocean exists.

Religion is extensive. I honestly don't understand how anyone can find spiritual evidence that a spiritual event happen. Can we find how jesus (pretend it's no symbolic) walked on water? People actually believe this. I mean, I can prove there is the ocean and how it moves. I can prove that it's written that Yemaya is the spirit of the ocean. Many followers can prove they have her as the head to which she tells them about the values of life or so have you.

If I had the choice to believe in Christianity and Lukumi and had the money for the latter, I'd pick Lukumi because the way the santera described the deity made a whole lot more sense than how it's described in scripture. Especially that the ancestors and orishas are involved in your connection with the deity so you don't have to worry about defining her, that's nice.

How does evidence of historical facts and theories about the event all of the sudden means the event actually happened? That sounds like a huge assumption on abrahamic parts.

Thanks for sharing about Santeria. I may have heard the name before. It reminds a little of the Indigeneous Maori religion Ratana in New Zealand that has synthesised traditional Maori beliefs with Christinaity, although Santeria seem more purely African. Shinto aligned with Buddhism in Japan is another example with Shintoism being the indigenous faith of the Japanese that existed in harmony with Buddhism for centuries up until the nineteenth century. I think whenever we go abck in history there is always faith and spirituality in some form, often with animism, polytheism, and the use of idols. This is probably for every culture without exception. Traditions were interwoven with culture and passed on orally.

Is your question 'How are faiths like Santeria any less historic or scientifically based in reality than Christinaity?'

Is that the question you are asking?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The word heterosexual is used to describe individuals with heterosexual orientation, in a similar manner to homosexua being orientation.



The action or practice of homosexuality is against Baha'i law and forbidden. It does not matter whether the couple is married or not.

The second, I asked about gay people not homosexuals. Can gay people have sex in bahai law?

The first question is connected with the second.

 

[Dawnofhope]

The second, I asked about gay people not homosexuals. Can gay people have sex in bahai law?

No. Only married heterosexuals.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No. Only married heterosexuals.

Its a trick question and play on words.2 I want to see if you catch it. Im using the word gay rather than homosexual.

In Bahai definiton of homosexual, can gay people have sex within marrige?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Its a trick question and play on words.2 I want to see if you catch it. Im using the word gay rather than homosexual.

In Bahai definiton of homosexual, can gay people have sex within marrige?

You wanted to see if you could catch me out. You have caught me!

It is 11:30 pm here and I have just returned home from being out of town for a few days.

You will get me in trouble. Gay and homosexual mean the same to me.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You wanted to see if you could catch me out. You have caught me!

It is 11:30 pm here and I have just returned home from being out of town for a few days.

You will get me in trouble. Gay and homosexual mean the same to me.

I was told homosexual in bahai means someone who practice same-sex actions, do you agree?

I woke up a hour ago and have a lot to do. Take your tims.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I was told homosexual in bahai means someone who practice same-sex actions, do you agree?

Not necessarily. Homosexuals can be non practicing and that is fine in the Baha'i Faith.

 

[Vinayaka]

Religions that have lots of "God-given" laws don't have a good track record. So I hope you understand the concern as to how the Baha'i Faith intends to deal with people that don't join or have a behavior that goes against Baha'i teaching.

Let's buy a big island and all move there, so we don't have to put up with all this hassle, and build our own utopia.

 

[Vinayaka]

We are told stagnant beleif is to be avoided.

I assume, probably incorrectly, that you're supposed to be working on change? And yet, the UHJ can't change laws. Your Guardian forbade it from changing. Seems like a conundrum to me.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Not necessarily. Homosexuals can be non practicing and that is fine in the Baha'i Faith.

How do you define homosexual?

 

[Vinayaka]

Not necessarily. Homosexuals can be non practicing and that is fine in the Baha'i Faith.

That shows little concern for individuals. Okay to others, but what if it's not okay by that person? It's the 'our way or the highway' attitude of so many. Seems most would choose the highway.

 

[Dawnofhope]

That shows little concern for individuals. Okay to others, but what if it's not okay by that person? It's the 'our way or the highway' attitude of so many. Seems most would choose the highway.

No. It is just being clear and honest about the teachings of the Baha'i Faith. I don't want to sugar coat it. It is what it is.

I get it that this is a big deal for gays and can presents a huge challenge.

 

[Dawnofhope]

How do you define homosexual?

One who is sexually attracted to the same sex exclusively.

 

[Vinayaka]

No. It is just being clear and honest about the teachings of the Baha'i Faith. I don't want to sugar coat it. It is what it is.

I get it that this is a big deal for gays and can presents a huge challenge.

I have no problem with the idea itself, Adrian. Any religious institution is free to establish laws and rules for itself. I myself am under 4 vows, and most likely many people don't join our little organisation because of one of those vows, or something else. It takes 5-10 years of training to join, lots of personal counseling, etc. If, during that process, something is encountered, we merely suggest joining a more liberal sect or school within Hinduism. We don't ask anyone to change their behaviour

What bothers me is the contradiction of saying that you're open to all, loving of all, and then do this 'but .... thing. But maybe I'm mistaken too. maybe some Baha'i' counsellors, if they exist, would recommend to a gay that they shift to another more liberal Abrahamic Church.

Some of the hardest situations, for anyone in a gay repressive religious organisation, though, is for children who are born into it. For a person just looking at it from the outside, they can choose to not join at all, whereas a person born into it suffers a lot of personal loss (friends, maybe family) by renouncing it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

One who is sexually attracted to the same sex exclusively.

Ah. Thats different than how your peer described it. I thought in bahai, homosexuality is an action (so quotes I looked from him-edit Bahaullah). So, like murder to muderer, those who some say are homosexual are defined that way because of what they do.