Homeopathy

[Subduction Zone]

Whoever differs from him is angry.

Now please, be honest. He made obviously false claims about real medicine. That is a sing of an inferiority complex. You told some nice stories, but that is all that they were. Medicine is a complex subject, that is why they go to great pains when testing cures. They know that one cure does not prove anything.

 

[AManCalledHorse]

I could've sworn cuts, insect bites, pneumonia and some other infections aren't life threatening anymore because of those anti-biotics, vaccines, and other advances in medicine. And I don't know about you, but I like the fact I grew not knowing what an iron lung is.

Our bodies have more ability than we give them credit for. But some figured out there's lots of money to be made by making people physically and mentally dependant on pharmaceuticals.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm kind of picking up on that. He seems to play that "its not me, its you" card quite often.

Now please. Let's try to be honest. I can support my claims with evidence. You, not so much. That is why you lost our temper and stormed off in the creation debates that you lost. Well of course that is to be expected. There has not been any debate for many years now. Merely corrections.

 

[AManCalledHorse]

Now please, be honest. He made obviously false claims about real medicine. That is a sing of an inferiority complex. You told some nice stories, but that is all that they were. Medicine is a complex subject, that is why they go to great pains when testing cures. They know that one cure does not prove anything.

Post my false claim about real medicine. Or quit making false claims.

 

[AManCalledHorse]

Now please. Let's try to be honest. I can support my claims with evidence. You, not so much. That is why you lost our temper and stormed off in the creation debates that you lost. Well of course that is to be expected. There has not been any debate for many years now. Merely corrections.

Creation is a belief. I don't have that belief. You either have me confused with someone else or you are trying to play the shell game by trying to create confusion by illusion.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Our bodies have more ability than we give them credit for. But some figured out there's lots of money to be made by making people physically and mentally dependant on pharmaceuticals.

Oh my! There goes another irony meter.

Granted, when antibiotics were first discovered they were abused by doctors. But then doctors are not scientists. They are people that usually genuinely want to make the lives of others better. I am not saying that pharmaceuticals are always blameless, but the people that believe in woo tend to think that any real cure has to be bad since the pharmaceutical companies are evil.

Try to drop the black and white thinking and you may be able to find a reasonable answer.

 

[Dawnofhope]

It is impossible to conduct a double blinded randomised control trial for homeopathic remedies for the reason given by #25 David McCann, who said that “The traditional testing methods are almost impossible to apply to any system of therapy which is patient-specific.”

You certainly can’t conduct a randomised double blinded control on a treatment that is patient specific, that is true. I suppose if I had clarity about exactly what homeopathy is and how it works then I’d want to test it.

There is no way that the healing that has occurred with homeopathy is all due to the placebo effect. To say that is highly illogical.

What’s illogical about it? Placebo has powerful healing properties. Is it wrong to speculate about the possible reasons why homeopathy works?

However, I expect you to say this because you are a medical doctor.

It’s true that medical doctors are generally skeptics when it comes to homeopathy.

The first homeopath I went to was a Baha’i who had practiced conventional medicine for 30 years before he switched his practice over to homeopathy only. The second homeopath I went to had also practiced conventional medicine for many years before he switched his practice over. Both were medical doctors licensed to practice in Washington State and they also prescribed allopathic medicines when necessary.

That’s interesting you say that and it intrigues me. I too have met the occasional Baha’i who swears by homeopathy though no practitioners. I’ve met a lot of Baha’i doctors though.

As I just told Subzone and Penguin, homeopathy works by stimulating the vital force to heal the body and that is not something that can be “studied” any more than the soul can be studied. That is what makes some people so mad. They want to pin everything down. I think that the vital force has something to do with the soul, but of course I could never prove that.

Im not mad, just curious. I don’t want to cause you to become mad or feel undermined. If you do I won’t say anymore as that’s not my intention. I just post in threads that are interesting as the relationship between medical science, religion and homeopathy certainly is.

God and Baha’u’llah cannot be proven either. Does that mean they do not have any effect upon the soul? Anything that affects the soul also affects the body since the two are inextricably intertwined.

The existence of God can be proven and Bahá’u’lláh was a real person who walked upon the earth. The reality that He was a Messenger of God can be proven too.

As I vaguely recall, some members of the UHJ used homeopathy as their primary medical treatment.

I haven’t heard about that but it doesn’t mean it’s not true. It doesn’t mean it is true either.

Thank you for provoking such an interesting thread.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Post my false claim about real medicine. Or quit making false claims.

Here you go::

"Does your body have the ability to heal itself, even if limited? There's your force that needs stimulating. Antibiotics produce a similar effect by giving your immune system a kick start or edge to defeat what is attacking your body. Our bodies have more ability than we give them credit for. Sadly people like yourself under sell our potential and over pay the pharmacy's. All those medications make our immune system weaker in the long run because immune system and mentality become dependant on them."

I doubt if you can find the false parts of it. But now I have met our demand.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Creation is a belief. I don't have that belief. You either have me confused with someone else or you are trying to play the shell game by trying to create confusion by illusion.

Really? I thought that you took the myths of Genesis literally. So you don't believe the Adam and Eve tale or the Flood fairy tale. Perhaps you can be reasonable.

 

[Jumi]

Once, a simple cold cough turned into asthma like condition by a continued use of a medicine ‘ipecac’. I had to resort to an Ayurvedic doctor, who prescribed a turmeric based Ayurvedic medicine for a week and I was okay.

Do note that turmeric or rather curcumin in it has actually been researched and shown to have efficacy in various conditions though natural curcumin has low bioavailability by itself.

 

[Trailblazer]

It looks like you were taken. You should ask for your $55.00 back.

Check if a university or college is officially recognised

When you spout nonsense such as "stimulating the vital force" you should realize that anyone that understands the sciences at all will merely laugh at you.

I do not care who laughs at me. All I care about is what is true. The scientists can laugh all they want. They are ignorant and arrogant people who believe that all we are is a physical body and we don't have a soul.

It is sad that people do not even realize that we have a soul because the soul is who we really are and the soul is connected to the vital force. The physical body is just a vehicle that carries the soul around; here today, gone tomorrow.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I note some personal experiences below:

About 25 years back, I had a condition called ‘Proctitis’. I was treated for 3 years with local application of betnovate. It was always temporary relief and doctors told me that the problem was nothing serious but entailed use of betnovate life long. I however knew how painful it was. In desperation, I had walked to a homeopath. He gave me 4 small pouches contains powders to be taken for 4 nights. And I was free of pain thereafter.

And yet you don't know what he gave you or why. Also you may have been misdiagnosed, and there is always the possibility of being cured by the placebo effect. Real medicines get tested by double blind studies. Why would they not work with homeopathy?

Once, a simple cold cough turned into asthma like condition by a continued use of a medicine ‘ipecac’. I had to resort to an Ayurvedic doctor, who prescribed a turmeric based Ayurvedic medicine for a week and I was okay.

Long time use of any medicine can have negative effects. Ipecac is sometimes used on children for the purpose of treating bronchitis. But I am noticing a trend here.

I had once developed a lower back pain from sitting stooping. A medicine called ‘aesculus’ aggravated the condition to such an extent that I had fainted. The acute pain however vanished with a dose of ‘nux vom’. This was repeated thrice.

Horse chestnut? Are you pulling our legs? And the active ingredient in Nux Vom is strychnine. But don't worry. If you bought a "homeopathic" preparation all you bought was water.

So, I do not think that homeopathic medicine is useless/harmless. Usually a remedy is specific for specific personally-disease symptoms and a statistical database demonstrating efficacy of a remedy for general populace cannot happen.

YMMV.
...

Sorry, but this is just nonsense. Countless people get ill and there are a limited number of cures, even in woo. Statistical studies are possible. You probably do not like the results.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I do not care who laughs at me. All I care about is what is true. The scientists can laugh all they want. They are ignorant and arrogant people who believe that all we are is a physical body and we don't have a soul.

It is sad that people do not even realize that we have a soul because the soul is who we really are and the soul is connected to the vital force. The physical body is just a vehicle that carries the soul around; here today, gone tomorrow.

Well except for the part about having a "degree". Degrees from non-accredited universities are generally worthless.

And please, when you are the ignorant and arrogant one it is highly hypocritical of you to claim that of others. If the claims of homeopathy were true they could support them. They can't all they have are anecdotes, not evidence.

You have still to explain how water can remember "medicine" but forgets poop.

 

[AManCalledHorse]

Here you go::

"Does your body have the ability to heal itself, even if limited? There's your force that needs stimulating. Antibiotics produce a similar effect by giving your immune system a kick start or edge to defeat what is attacking your body. Our bodies have more ability than we give them credit for. Sadly people like yourself under sell our potential and over pay the pharmacy's. All those medications make our immune system weaker in the long run because immune system and mentality become dependant on them."

I doubt if you can find the false parts of it. But now I have met our demand.

There is nothing there that is a false claim.
You do realize force is used in many ways. If America is attacked it has a force that defends it, its known as the military.
If your body is attacked it has a force that defends is, it's known as the immune system.

 

[Subduction Zone]

At least you have admitted that you accept a placebo that has no medical value is more effective than homeopathy treatments that actually do have medical value, even if deluted. Basically you are saying nothing is better than something.

Sorry, but there is no medical value in homeopathy if it works no better than a placebo. Doctors are loathe to prescribe placebos because they feel a need to be honest. But if you don't mind being lied to continue to spend excessive amounts of money on water. Or if it is in pill form they are not much more than "sugar pills".

 

[AManCalledHorse]

Really? I thought that you took the myths of Genesis literally. So you don't believe the Adam and Eve tale or the Flood fairy tale. Perhaps you can be reasonable.

I thought the discussion here was about homeopathy. Why are you trying to change it to creation and the bible? Are you a weirdo?

 

[Subduction Zone]

There is nothing there that is a false claim.
You do realize force is used in many ways. If America is attacked it has a force that defends it, its known as the military.
If your body is attacked it has a force that defends is, it's known as the immune system.

Of course there was. Let's forget about your equivocation fallacy for right now. Let's concentrate on your false claims about pharmacies. Oddly enough you think that real medicine is overpriced but water and sugar pills are not.

It appears that you do not even know what homeopathy is.

 

[Trailblazer]

It's not showing.

I am not trying to show anything. I am just sharing because I care about people and maybe some people will learn something from what I say, something new.

Since you have an MA, you should know (including the things I addressed in the other thread) that minimal functionality is the best many psychiatric patients can get, some will need assisted living, and someone will always be borderline functional and one trigger away from a meltdown. There is no cure for bi-polar disorder, but moods can be stabilized. There is no fix for schizophrenia, but we can ameliorate both the positive and negative symptoms.

I do know that minimal functionality is the best many psychiatric patients can get, but that is not true for everyone. I know a person who was cured of bi-polar disorder by homeopathy. He was completely dysfunctional for decades before that and he was fully functional afterwards, had a regular job and functioned normally in society. I know there is no cure for schizophrenia and that drugs are necessary for management.

Since you have an MA, you should know that psychotropic medications are not "happy pills" and know they do not make people happy.

They do make people happier if they work so in that sense they are happy pills. Why would people take them if they did not want to be happy? Maybe all they accomplish is keeping their heads above water but they hope to be happy.

Since you have an MA, you should know there is no "surgery," not literally or metaphorically. We may find something better in the future, but for now we have we have to work with.

There is surgery if people want to go through all of what is necessary to really cure themselves, but most people are not willing to take the time or do the work. They want a quick fix so they would rather have a band aid, and that is what most mental health professionals offer. I worked in a clinic like that but I could never do it again because I do not believe in that approach. I am an idealist. That is why I am a Baha'i.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I thought the discussion here was about homeopathy. Why are you trying to change it to creation and the bible? Are you a weirdo?

Now please, I have not commented on your obvious inability to reason. I was trying to remember why you were so angry with me. You began the personal attacks here. I was wondering where they came from. Since those are the areas that I debate the most you probably did support the flood myth. Wasn't that they thread where you thought that the Ark could get up Mt Ararat and still be a local flood? If that was not you you would have to admit that was a hilarious error.

Let's try to keep this on homeopathy and why we know that it is horse puckey.

 

[AManCalledHorse]

Good night everyone. Good luck with the poster that's want a to turn the discussion to creation and the bible. I don't think he is a creationist but I do believe that's all he wants to talk and argue about if you disagree with him on other things. Maybe he can find the argument he seeks on another thread.