Hindu website

[shivsomashekhar]

I'm still trying to understand the different ideas about what Atman really is.

And depending on who you ask, you can get up to ten different definitions. This is fine, if your intent is to write a paper or to pick up academic education on the various (and diverse) Hindu beliefs. However, if your intent is to be a follower, then you will have to go two levels deeper and pick a specific line of thought.

If it is the former, I recommend the five volume set on Hindu philosophy by SN Dasgupta.

 

[ajay0]

Fraudsters and pseudoscholars are the biggest problem facing Hinduism at the moment. This is bound to be so as truth and dharma is considered to be a mere quarter in the present Kali Yuga.

Frauds and pseudoscholars are the main instruments through which Maya operates at this point of time to breed ignorance, delusion and suffering amongst people. They do so for the sake of ego-gratification and pretensions to scholarship and enlightenment to feed their vanity and disguise their shallowness.


Understanding this, the enlightened sage Kabir had emphasized the need for critical examination to wisely distinguish between the wise and the frauds....


Kabir on the need for critical examination to weed out the false and fraudulent...


I would suggest first sharpening one's skill of critical examination as Kabir taught so that one does not fall for frauds and falsehood and wreck one's life in the process.

 

[Martin]

And depending on who you ask, you can get up to ten different definitions. This is fine, if your intent is to write a paper or to pick up academic education on the various (and diverse) Hindu beliefs. However, if your intent is to be a follower, then you will have to go two levels deeper and pick a specific line of thought.

If it is the former, I recommend the five volume set on Hindu philosophy by SN Dasgupta.

I'm not sure I want to be a follower, my interest at the moment is more to understand different ways of looking at things. Seeing what resonates with the experiences I've had, and what might be useful for further exploration.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Though Advaita claims to be absolute non-dualism as in, it allows no difference between Atman and Paramatman, it contradicts this premise by accepting -

1) the reality of multiple souls in bondage

2) the reality of liberation and
3) the reality of multiple, liberated souls.

That is where my extreme non-dualism comes in. If we want pure Advaita, then we have to abandon the idea of God/Gods/Goddesses; or that of a soul and a Supreme Soul however in-distinguishable they may be. It has to be one and only one and no other. Many of our scriptures say that categorically.

As for number 2) and 3), I do not deny that, but that is just an illusion as we ourselves are. So, there can be a fake reality of liberation or that many of these illusions may have attained liberation, i.e., may have been able to see beyond this illusion. Brahman will not need any liberation, illusions (i.e., us) have to get over it.

Meerkat, do not be afraid of what we discuss here, but given your recent acquaintance with Hinduism, you may not be able to understand it.

 

[Aupmanyav]

If it is the former, I recommend the five volume set on Hindu philosophy by SN Dasgupta.

Surendra Nath Dasgupta. I wholly agree with you. I have not come across any better scholarly, unbiased work than that. I have learnt a lot from that book. A true masterpiece, written very lucidly. Here is where you can get it in PDF form:

A History Of Indian Philosophy Vol.1 : Dasgupta,surendranath : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The book has five volumes. 1) Overview of Indian Philosophy 2) Advaita 3) Vaishnava philosophies 4) Hindu Pluralism and 5) Shaivism of South India. A complete book.
Surendranath Dasgupta - Wikipedia

@SalixIncendium , Shiva is a knowledgeable person. Don't get angry with him. He was just putting in his view. And @shivsomashekhar , you too cool down. What will Meerkat think of us?

Note: The first volume has 100 pages on Advaita, and that is sufficient for new comers. So, you do not really need to download the second book. And similarly so for the other volumes also, they go deeper than what is written in the first volume.

 

[SalixIncendium]

@SalixIncendium , Shiva is a knowledgeable person. Don't get angry with him. He was just putting in his view.

I have no doubt shivsomashekhar is knowledgeable, and I understand that he was offering his view.

I was just putting it out there for @Meerkat's own knowledge that such is not everyone's view regarding nondualism in Advaita and that this thread was not the venue for offering such a view, as it could potentially turn into a debate in a non-debate forum as it did in Bhedabheda vs. Advaita, where shivsomashekhar has already offered his views in depth.

I'm not angry with anyone. Anger is such a silly and unproductive emotion. My intent was to merely keep the thread on topic and prevent my Hindu friends from being moderated for debating in a DIR.

 

[Martin]

A quick practical question: when chanting Om (Aum?) is there any recommended number of repetitions?

 

[SalixIncendium]

A quick practical question: when chanting Om (Aum?) is there any recommended number of repetitions?

There will likely be a variety of responses, but personally, I never counted.

The purpose for the method I've typically used is to silence thought. I've focused on the sounds as I chant and their correspondences as I see them.

• A - the waking state
• U - the dream state
• M - the deep sleep state

The silence between the repetition is the fourth state, turiya.

But I can see the usefulness in counting to silence thought as well. A common number I've seen is 108, which is commonly the number of rudraksha beads on a mala (string of Hindu prayer/meditation beads).

 

[Vinayaka]

A quick practical question: when chanting Om (Aum?) is there any recommended number of repetitions?

Not really, although before meals, meetings, to begin anything, it's usually 3. For a round of japa, it's 108. but that takes awhile. Any number is fine though.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Not really, although before meals, meetings, to begin anything, it's usually 3. For a round of japa, it's 108. but that takes awhile. Any number is fine though.

I've also seen it used only once, followed by 'shanti' (peace) three times. I guess it depends on the application, whether before a meal, before a gathering (such as puja or lecture) or in meditation.

 

[Aupmanyav]

'O~m'. Perhaps I would put it this way. A deep voiced elongated 'O', stands for all that is auspicious in the universe, symbolizing Brahman. Chant it slowly (as they say from deep your inside), relishing its sound, till you feel in a better frame of mind.
I would not recommend any set number of repetitions. IMHO, any sort of counting disturbs the very purpose of achieving a calm mind. And do not over do it, like 1008 repetitions. Like Vinayaka said, people use prayer beads, so it gets counted without any conscious effort towards counting.

 

[Vinayaka]

I've also seen it used only once, followed by 'shanti' (peace) three times.

And in greetings ... Aum Sivaya, or in closings .. Aum Aum said quickly, but that's more just naming the mantra than the mantra itself. Talking about the mantra isn't the mantra.

 

[Martin]

Thanks for the advice. I've been doing sets of three at intervals throughout the day. It feels like the quality is more important than the quantity.

 

[Vinayaka]

Thanks for the advice. I've been doing sets of three at intervals throughout the day. It feels like the quality is more important than the quantity.

Gosh, that applies for a ton of things.

In regards to advaita, I might as well give you my take as well, since you seem to be getting a variety of takes, as expected. Mine is different again, in that I believe it's an intellectualisation of a non-intellectual topic. No words can truly describe non-dual realisation. Only the greatest of sages and mystics understood it completely, as the knowledge comes from the deepest of meditations, from within. What intellectualisation does is regurgitates other's realisations. Nothing wrong with that, as it may provide a map, but by no means is it an endpoint. The endpoint is nirvikalpa samadhi, which you can only do by yourself.

Therefore, I personally don't put a lot of thought into it, I just do service and bhakti, and bits of meditation here and there. Different route. But to each his/her own.

 

[Jainarayan]

Therefore, I personally don't put a lot of thought into it, I just do service and bhakti, and bits of meditation here and there. Different route. But to each his/her own.

Agreed. I drove myself crazy trying to understand this intellectually. Of course it could be that I'm just too dense to understand, or even care. It was taking away from my practice, which includes meditating on myself and my faults, and how I can improve myself, and surrender to God for seva and bhakti. None of us knows, and we won't know unless and until we get "there", what the truth is. But that's just my approach. I think arguing over it is pointless.

 

[Vinayaka]

Of course it could be that I'm just too dense to understand, or even care.

That's me to a tee, especially the too dense bit.

 

[ajay0]

Agreed. I drove myself crazy trying to understand this intellectually.

Advaita is actually very simple to understand.

Unfortunately all the confusions are caused by people with uneducated understanding of Advaita offering their opinions on the same, sometimes even declaring it to be the truth out of delusion.

An educated person may say to a group of illiterate villagers that 2+2=4, but if three others eager to display their 'knowledge' for ego-gratification, come and give their opinion that 2+2=5, or 2+2= 22 or 2+2=0 and so on with great conviction, it will only create confusion in the minds of the people trying to learn.

As Anandamayi Ma stated, " Indulging in false things will only increase falsity, for every direction is indeed infinite."

Thus a simple thing which could be easily understood, becomes a matter of great complexity to comprehend.


There are quality Advaitan scholars like Atanu,Ameyatma, Tattvaprahav ,SalixIncendium in this forum and their threads/posts can be studied for getting a good understanding of Advaita/nondualism authentically.

 

[Martin]

Agreed. I drove myself crazy trying to understand this intellectually. Of course it could be that I'm just too dense to understand, or even care. It was taking away from my practice, which includes meditating on myself and my faults, and how I can improve myself, and surrender to God for seva and bhakti. None of us knows, and we won't know unless and until we get "there", what the truth is. But that's just my approach. I think arguing over it is pointless.

You're right, of course, arguing is pointless. But sometimes I find myself getting attached to a particular view or interpretation, so then it becomes a problem when somebody disagrees, particularly when the other person is also attached to their view, or regards themselves as an "expert", and not to be challenged. And being lectured at is particularly tiresome!

On the other hand I think there is great value in sharing knowledge, perspectives and experience.

 

[Martin]

Advaita is actually very simple to understand.

Unfortunately all the confusions are caused by people with uneducated understanding of Advaita offering their opinions on the same, sometimes even declaring it to be the truth out of delusion.

An educated person may say to a group of illiterate villagers that 2+2=4, but if three others eager to display their 'knowledge' for ego-gratification, come and give their opinion that 2+2=5, or 2+2= 22 or 2+2=0 and so on with great conviction, it will only create confusion in the minds of the people trying to learn.

As Anandamayi Ma stated, " Indulging in false things will only increase falsity, for every direction is indeed infinite."

Thus a simple thing which could be easily understood, becomes a matter of great complexity to comprehend.


There are quality Advaitan scholars like Atanu,Ameyatma, Tattvaprahav ,SalixIncendium in this forum and their threads/posts can be studied for getting a good understanding of Advaita/nondualism authentically.

That's good to know, but please note I am interested in understanding the "big picture" at this stage, and not just the ideas of one school or sub-school.
So for example, clear explanations about the practical differences between dual and non-dual philosophies (I do realise its not a dichotomy!).

 

[Aupmanyav]

Get SenGupta's book.