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Featured Hell isn't literal, the worst punishment is that your conscience ceases to exist.

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Octavio Siepi, Jul 13, 2019.

  1. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    I know what its like to lose everything that i once seemed to have. So I understand that life on earth is not the life i am referring to. In my vocabulary this is existence, and life is a word i use to describe a far better circumstance.

    Your Ba'hullah has a wonderful way of words. While i do not subscribe to the religion I do not discount that he has a genuine light of truth that is perhaps inspired by God.

    Nature and circumstances knocked the notion of God right out of me for awhile. Since then i am starting to get more inspired by my searches for God. I got hung up on proofs, and evidences and the apparent lack thereof. Now i am trying to approach God through a perspective that the events of this existence pale in comparison to the glory of God. My opinion is that somehow this earth is exactly what we need right now, and we all have strayed and rebelled and looked toward doing things that cause us all harm instead of good. In a sense we all deserve to be here in this frying pan.

    The evils of this world and the worst things that can befall a person are a result of rebellion. Some of the most respectable humans, while you might not consider them evil, but they have contributed a lot to the destructiveness of our world; nuclear bombs, etc.

    So if we are not evil, we are, still, a most destructive rebellious species. And of course God would intend us to lose are dangerous ways.
     
  2. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Where might I find that idea (Living blissfully and mindlessly in happy-land for all eternity) in the Bible?
    That is an invention of Christendom, not a teaching of Jesus Christ....not a teaching ever given to Israel.
     
  3. Zita

    Zita Solitary Eclectic Witch

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    Well as far as I'm concerned ,I'm coming back again to continue on my soul path or spirituality, I know alot of people don't believe in reincarnation, I believe in it because I feel The Creator didn't create us just to have us cease to exist one day, life is everlasting and I am looking forward to my next life.I believe that whatever your belief is about death while you are living,is what you will experience when you die.MY mom believed in Heaven very strongly, she was a good example of a Christian and read that bible every night, so I have no doubt in my mind that she is in heaven having a beautiful eternity. Some people believe that they will be an angel , so they can help humanity, so that's what I believe she will be.Some belief that when you die you just cease to exist.So I guess it lights out for them.Some believe in ghosts to continue to visit were they go. I think God has no problem with honoring what we believe.I wonder what the people who believe and focus on hell, is going do when they die. That's a scary thought.
     
  4. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    An eternity of life seems more like hell to me than non-existence. In other words, I do NOT value my consciousness to the extent that torture is preferable to non-existence.
     
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  5. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    Imagine what you would be like after the first million years? I think all your options would be exhausted
     
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  6. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    An eternity of a good life wouldn't be hell. However IMO there are people that live in hell daily. Some believe hell is living and the escape is death.
     
  7. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    If heaven exits, living with no fears, no pain, no hunger, nothing but bliss wouldn't be bad even at a million years. However there is not only no evidence for god, there is also no evidence for a heaven or hell.
     
  8. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    Where is free will when all you have is eternal bliss?
     
  9. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Maybe freewill passes with death. Don't ask me. I don't believe in all that mumbo jumbo BS.
     
  10. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    Yes, I think it *would* be bad after a million years. It would be *boring*. Mind-numbingly boring. And, after a million times that, a mere trillion years, it would be nothing short of torment.

    /E: truthfully, the descriptions of heaven just sound like some sort of drug trip, extended to eternity. Not a good path.
     
  11. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying living in bliss forever is hell and dying and no longer existing is actually heaven?
     
  12. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    After the first short (relatively) bit of time, yes, indeed. I would *much* rather not exist at all than be forced to live for eternity.

    And I very much enjoy life. I just don't think it would be enjoyable after the first million, billion, or trillion years.

    Just as a comparison, there are only a billion seconds in 31 years.
     
  13. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Off topic but since you are a staff member I have a question if I may ask.
    I recently went to a thread and a popup said I can't reply something to do with DRI's. What is a DRI?

    If this is the wrong place to ask, I apologize.
     
  14. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    DIR='Discuss Individual Religion'. These are forums only for discussion by those who declare they are part of said religion, except for *polite* questions from others.

    From the rules:

    10. Debating in Non-debate Forums or Posting in DIR/ONLY Forums
    Religious forums is structured to provide spaces for many different kinds of conversations. Different kinds of conversations belong in different areas of the forum:

    1) Debates should be kept to the debate areas of the forums, including Religious Debates, General Debates, and Political Debates. Debating anywhere other than these forums may result in moderation. Same Faith Debates is governed by special rules described here. Only members of the specified groups(s) can participate in these threads.

    2) All DIR (Discuss Individual Religions) forums are for the use of members who identify with those groups or practices. Debating is not permitted in DIRs; debates between members of specified groups should be posted in Same Faith Debates. Members who do not identify with a DIR group may only post respectful questions; we recommend creating a thread in the Religions Q&A instead where there is more freedom to comment. DIR forums are not to be used as a cover to bash others outside of the DIR group.

    3) The Political World forum has several "only" subforums that are for the use of members who identify with those political leanings. Members who do not identify with those political leanings are not allowed to post there. The staff more strictly moderate Rule 10 violations where there is some other rule violation involved, such as preaching in a DIR or trolling a political forum a member doesn't belong to. More benign violations may be subject to informal reminders or moving threads to the appropriate location.
     
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  15. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. That adds another reason I follow you. You are not only knowledgeable but you are also informative. You are a good person.
     
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  16. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    I am amazed to find out jw's do not subscribe to the notion that an eternal hell exists. I grew up with the catholic, and then the baptist teaching of eternal hell. Its still ingrained in me.

    So the question arises that there is a verse in Revelation i believe, where the devil is tormented day and night in the lake of fire forever and ever?

    I have a kjv 1611. I suppose an NIV is more readable.

    What is the lake of fire anyways?

    I must admit, i am not a believer, and find it way outside of my reality sense to believe in Eden, Jonah, Noah, Babel, and other Bible accounts.

    Where does the word hell come from?

    And what exactly is jw salvation?
     
    #36 osgart, Jul 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
  17. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    And all one has to do to qualify as evil is to have sex with someone of the same gender, or have sex before you're married. And why are such acts so terrible? Because god simply says they are. PERIOD!---no explanation given. And god forbid you're a Catholic and masturbate.

    .
     
    #37 Skwim, Jul 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
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  18. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    I was raised with this belief too. It is a God-dishonoring doctrine that strangely runs through all non-Christian religions as well.....an eternal horrible end for the wicked in the flames of a fiery hell. But it doesn't come from the Bible, just from a bad interpretation of certain verses. God is not a fiend. A God of love could never do something like that.

    Not a big fan of the KJV but some more modern translations are OK. I like to compare a few translations on Biblegateway when I study. I also like to check word meanings with Strongs Concordance and reference the Tanach as well....all available online.

    This is one of those verses that needs other scripture to explain it.

    To what was Jesus referring when he spoke of a person’s being thrown “into hell”? Is “the eternal fire” that Jesus warned of, literal or symbolic? In what sense do the wicked “go off to eternal punishment”?

    The original Greek word translated “hell” at Mark 9:47 is Geʹen·na. This word comes from the Hebrew Geh Hin·nomʹ, meaning “Valley of Hinnom.” The Valley of Hinnom hugged the outskirts of ancient Jerusalem. In the days of the Israelite kings, it was used for child sacrifice—a disgusting practice that God condemned. God said that he would execute those who performed such an act of false worship.

    In Jesus’ day, the inhabitants of Jerusalem used the Valley of Hinnom as a garbage dump. They threw the bodies of some vile criminals into this dump and kept a fire constantly burning there to dispose of the refuse and the carcasses. This is the original situation from which the doctrine of a fiery hell came from. But nothing alive was ever cast into gehenna.

    Revelation 20:10 says that the Devil will be cast into “the lake of fire” and “tormented day and night for ever and ever.” (King James Version)

    But if the Devil were to be tortured for all eternity, God would have to preserve him alive, but the Bible says that Jesus will “destroy him.” (Hebrews 2:14 KJV)

    The lake of fire represents “the second death.” (Revelation 21:8) This is not the death first mentioned in the Bible which is death that occurs because of Adam’s sin....a death from which one may be released by a resurrection. (1 Corinthians 15:21-22)
    Because the Bible does not say that “the lake of fire”(like hades) would release those in it, “the second death” must mean another kind of death, an irreversible one. (Revelation 20:13)

    In what sense are those in “the lake of fire” tormented eternally? At times, “to torment” can mean “to restrain” someone. Jailers in ancient times were described by a word that meant "tormentors".

    Once when Jesus confronted the demons, they cried out: “Art thou come hither to torment us [restrain us in the abyss] before the time?” (Matthew 8:29; Luke 8:30, 31; KJ) So all of those in “the lake” will suffer the “torment” of everlasting restraint, or “the second death.”

    No one suffers anything after death because the Bible teaches that the dead are not conscious. (Ecclesiastes 9:5; 10)

    It is evil enough to have come from the devil! He would enjoy torturing people forever....

    But the words used in the Bible that are translated "hell" are nothing close to what the churches believe.
    The Hebrew is "sheol" and the Greek is "hades". Both simply mean the grave...we all go there. We sleep peacefully in death until it is time for Christ to bring us back to life.....right here on a cleansed earth.

    Simply put, God has planned all along to take us back to the conditions of Eden, once he has dealt with the devil and all those who follow him.
    God chose some to rule with Jesus in his Kingdom, but by and large the majority of mankind will enjoy paradise conditions on earth forever. (Revelation 21:2-4)

    When you ask people about their visions of heaven...it all sounds just like a beautiful earth. :)
     
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  19. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    Many Christians make it a habit to think about "the after life"
    Meanwhile forgetting to "live NOW"

    The worst is that you don't use your conscience "NOW"
     
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  20. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    i think that eventually all souls through many incarnations will repair self. mechanism of built in collective unconscious is at work.
     
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