Has human evolution been disproved?

[S-word]

1 - There is no 'ladder' of evolution, since evolution is almost never linear.
2 - Prokaryotes have been around much longer than eukaryotes, so bacteria have been around much longer than us. But because we all derived from a common ancestor (if not more than one) I'd say we're on equal footing in evolutionary terms, tbh.
3 - A virus is just a bunch of genetic material wrapped up in a wall of glycoproteins and other macromolecules. It doesn't get much more simple than that.

All things have been evolving for exactly the same lenght of time, as it is not individual things that are evolving, but the singularity of origin. It is that infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity that was torn asunder by the "Big Bang" that has become all individual things, which is the only thing that is evolving, and mankind is the highest point to which it/he has so far evolved. Trace all things that are in the process of evolution back to their origin, and you will come to the singularity that is the origin of all that has existed, all that now exists, and all that will ever exist. not one thing began its process of evolution apart from and separate from, all things that the singularity of origin has become.

Prokaryotes have been around much longer than eukaryotes, But that which became eukaryotes was still in the eternal process of the evolution of the singularity of origin when prokaryotes were already in existence. Nevertheless all these things had to come into existence before mankind could be created, as they are all integral parts of the entirity that is the human body.

 

[Snowber]

First of all excuse me if I missed anything, I had to scramble through a lot of posts to get up to speed, life is busy.

I believe that the best model for the origin of the universe, according to the data that has so far been accumulated by the mind of man, is the theory of the Big Bang.

S-Word, interesting mention of Big Bang. Another reason why I believe GOD exists, to me it is beyond coincidence the "coincidences" of science and religion relating to each other in Scriptures and what we see today. The example of the Big Bang in the Koran:

The Big Bang Theory Confirmed*

[21:30] Do the unbelievers not realize that the heaven and the earth used to be one solid mass that we exploded into existence? And from water we made all living things. Would they believe?

I am not speaking on behalf of anyone here but many Muslims today believe this verse is in confirmation of the Big Bang as well as confirmation that life initiated from water.

This post has several fundamental flaws:
1) You begin by simply ignoring the question put to you by Gabe, only to shift the entire debate to a point of your own.

Gabe said:

After 2 millions years, 1 million years or 400 thousand years, he has not yet shown himself should tell you something.. Shouldn't it?

I didn't see my response to Gabe as ignoring his question to start with. If you'd like a more direct answer though, here it is:

Simply, we believe that the "UNIVERSE" consists of 7 "Universes":

[23:17] We created above you seven universes in layers, and we are never unaware of a single creature in them.

[2:29] He is the One who created for you everything on earth, then turned to the sky and perfected seven universes therein*, and He is fully aware of all things.

So in response to "GOD not showing Himself" for millions of years or hundreds of thousands of years, there could be many reasons for this. One simple answer, according to the Koran, is that we do not see GOD (if we "see" GOD that is) until our test here on Earth is complete. We know, according to the Koran, that if GOD were to reveal Himself or even "visible" proof of GOD (whether by showing us Angels or otherwise) the test would be over.

Now whether GOD has not revealed Himself at all during the history of our universe is another question I cannot answer because, simply, I don't have evidence for that except from what I see in the Koran (which I believe CAN be classified as strong evidence because of the scientific and mathematical evidence supporting it, and supporting other, previous, Scriptures <-- though we may not see this today because of human innovation over time I believe it once existed when they were in their purest form) and here it is:

[7:143] When Moses came at our appointed time, and his Lord spoke with him, he said, "My Lord, let me look and see You." He said, "You cannot see Me. Look at that mountain; if it stays in its place, then you can see Me." Then, his Lord manifested Himself to the mountain, and this caused it to crumble. Moses fell unconscious. When he came to, he said, "Be You glorified. I repent to You, and I am the most convinced believer."

This tells us that GOD's presence is too much for our universe, thus the need for developing, or "feeding", our souls to be able to become closer to our Lord once the test ends for each and every one of us. This also teaches us, in a way, that "Hell" (remember that Heaven and Hell are always described allegorically, how can we explain the taste of chocolate to someone who has never tasted it?) is our lack of developing our souls and, hence, becoming further away from GOD.


2) The debate about the statistical probability of life (or more specifically, human life) evolving has been done ad nauseum. It may be new to you, but it has truly been covered time and again. In a nutshell, the probability is exactly 1.

If I have this down correctly, you are saying that the evolution of humans (and if I may assume that by evolution of humans you mean complete with common ancestry in apes) is 1.

I can't fully agree on this until I have completely studied human evolution but to me, to have a probability of 1 (at least in this world that we know) you must either physically see that it evolved (evidence is strong but still not a probability of 1, at least as far as I know, maybe there is a study that shows it is) or use math to provide a proof (remember proofs in high school? pain in the butt but we still need them). I know that some may argue even what we "see" isn't proof that it is there or even what we "prove" but I am keeping this debate earthly for our purposes.

Now if there is PROOF of human evolution (and by human evolution I am talking about having a common ancestor with Apes/(Chimpanzees?) I will definitely read up on it (whether or not it is presented here now I plan on doing the studies). With GOD in the equation, if evolution just indefinitely finds "evidence" but not "proof" this could be a test in our eyes. I am not saying evolution contradicts religion, but I still think there is a need for proof before we can use it. As far as I know Scripturally, GOD did create mankind but GOD also mentions initiating life from water, so to me it is not a contradiction that GOD created mankind through any means possible given to us in this world.

3) There is no such thing as an "atheist's theory" on how life began amid such chaos. You demonstrate the fallacy that all atheists agree on many things. The only thing that all atheists agree on is the non-existence of God(s). It isn't like atheists have meetings to discuss what the "party line" is, regarding things like morals. There are atheists that embrace virtually any position that you can posit, other than the existence of God.

I am a reasonable man and I apologize if I gave any impression that atheists were all clumped together. I don't see atheists as one "religion" sharing the same belief (just as all Christians,Jews,Muslims don't all share the same beliefs within their individual 'sects'). This was made apparent to me the moment I saw two atheists not agreeing on something. Never meant to give that impression, sorry if I did.

4) Lastly, the idea that if evolution is wrong, then God must have created mankind and the universe is a logical fallacy known as an argument from ignorance. The fact that one cannot think of other alternatives does not automatically mean that if one choice is wrong, the other MUST be right.

Whether evolution is wrong or right I would still submit to the fact that GOD created the universe <-- Insert assumptions about my ignorance here -->

Not because I simply read a scripture and say "Ok GOD said He exists, so I'll believe Him", not at all. In fact, if that were the case I wouldn't consider myself religious today (might even label myself as an atheist). In fact my personal beliefs are based on evidence (what many see as proof) of GOD's existence whether by common sense or by scientific/mathematical evidence in Scriptures.

I'm sorry if I missed anything, I tried grabbing quotes and going back and forth but im not sure I got everything..

 

[S-word]

First of all excuse me if I missed anything, I had to scramble through a lot of posts to get up to speed, life is busy.



S-Word, interesting mention of Big Bang. Another reason why I believe GOD exists, to me it is beyond coincidence the "coincidences" of science and religion relating to each other in Scriptures and what we see today. The example of the Big Bang in the Koran:



I am not speaking on behalf of anyone here but many Muslims today believe this verse is in confirmation of the Big Bang as well as confirmation that life initiated from water.


Gabe said:


I didn't see my response to Gabe as ignoring his question to start with. If you'd like a more direct answer though, here it is:

Simply, we believe that the "UNIVERSE" consists of 7 "Universes":



So in response to "GOD not showing Himself" for millions of years or hundreds of thousands of years, there could be many reasons for this. One simple answer, according to the Koran, is that we do not see GOD (if we "see" GOD that is) until our test here on Earth is complete. We know, according to the Koran, that if GOD were to reveal Himself or even "visible" proof of GOD (whether by showing us Angels or otherwise) the test would be over.

Now whether GOD has not revealed Himself at all during the history of our universe is another question I cannot answer because, simply, I don't have evidence for that except from what I see in the Koran (which I believe CAN be classified as strong evidence because of the scientific and mathematical evidence supporting it, and supporting other, previous, Scriptures <-- though we may not see this today because of human innovation over time I believe it once existed when they were in their purest form) and here it is:



This tells us that GOD's presence is too much for our universe, thus the need for developing, or "feeding", our souls to be able to become closer to our Lord once the test ends for each and every one of us. This also teaches us, in a way, that "Hell" (remember that Heaven and Hell are always described allegorically, how can we explain the taste of chocolate to someone who has never tasted it?) is our lack of developing our souls and, hence, becoming further away from GOD.


2) The debate about the statistical probability of life (or more specifically, human life) evolving has been done ad nauseum. It may be new to you, but it has truly been covered time and again. In a nutshell, the probability is exactly 1.

If I have this down correctly, you are saying that the evolution of humans (and if I may assume that by evolution of humans you mean complete with common ancestry in apes) is 1.

I can't fully agree on this until I have completely studied human evolution but to me, to have a probability of 1 (at least in this world that we know) you must either physically see that it evolved (evidence is strong but still not a probability of 1, at least as far as I know, maybe there is a study that shows it is) or use math to provide a proof (remember proofs in high school? pain in the butt but we still need them). I know that some may argue even what we "see" isn't proof that it is there or even what we "prove" but I am keeping this debate earthly for our purposes.

Now if there is PROOF of human evolution (and by human evolution I am talking about having a common ancestor with Apes/(Chimpanzees?) I will definitely read up on it (whether or not it is presented here now I plan on doing the studies). With GOD in the equation, if evolution just indefinitely finds "evidence" but not "proof" this could be a test in our eyes. I am not saying evolution contradicts religion, but I still think there is a need for proof before we can use it. As far as I know Scripturally, GOD did create mankind but GOD also mentions initiating life from water, so to me it is not a contradiction that GOD created mankind through any means possible given to us in this world.



I am a reasonable man and I apologize if I gave any impression that atheists were all clumped together. I don't see atheists as one "religion" sharing the same belief (just as all Christians,Jews,Muslims don't all share the same beliefs within their individual 'sects'). This was made apparent to me the moment I saw two atheists not agreeing on something. Never meant to give that impression, sorry if I did.



Whether evolution is wrong or right I would still submit to the fact that GOD created the universe <-- Insert assumptions about my ignorance here -->

Not because I simply read a scripture and say "Ok GOD said He exists, so I'll believe Him", not at all. In fact, if that were the case I wouldn't consider myself religious today (might even label myself as an atheist). In fact my personal beliefs are based on evidence (what many see as proof) of GOD's existence whether by common sense or by scientific/mathematical evidence in Scriptures.

I'm sorry if I missed anything, I tried grabbing quotes and going back and forth but im not sure I got everything..

Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non being, and again from non being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.” ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

The nights and days of Brahma are called Manvantara or the cycle of manifestation, ‘The Great Day,’ which is a period of universal activity, that is preceded, and also followed by ‘Pralaya,’ a dark period, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity. ‘Manvantara,’ is a creative day as seen in the six days of creation in Genesis, ‘Pralaya,’ is the evening that precedes the next creative day. The six periods of Creation and the seventh day of rest in which we now exist, are referred to in the book of Genesis as the generations of the universe.

The English word “Generation,” is translated from the Hebrew “toledoth” which is used in the Old Testament in every instance as ‘births,’ or ‘descendants,’ such as “These are the generations of Adam,” or “these are the generations of Abraham, and Genesis 2: 4; These are the generations of the Universe or heavens and earth, etc. And the ‘Great Day’ in which the seven generations of the universe are eternally repeated, is the eternal cosmic period, or the eighth eternal day in which those who attain to perfection are allowed to enter.

There they shall be surrounded by great light and they shall experience eternal peace, while those who do not attain to perfection are cast back into the refining fires of the seven physical cycles that perpetually revolve within the eighth eternal cosmic cycle.

Origen, , was a Christian writer and teacher who lived between the years of 185 and 254 AD. Among his many works is the Hexapla, which is his interpretation of the Old Testament texts. Origen holds to a series of worlds following one upon the other,-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it.

 

[johnhanks]

immortalFlame: post 117: No, because there is no "high" or "low" in the evolution process.

Post 120: I have repeatedly stated that there is no such thing as "higher" or "lower" in terms of evolution

Post 123: I am saying that there is nothing inherent in life that makes one species "superior" to another

Gabethewiking: post 124: You are wrong, all animals living today, including all apes, are equal to all other animals in their Evolution

As your posts appeared to be in support of these two people, I assumed that you were of the same mind, sorry if you were offended.

I am very much of their mind, and offense doesn't come into it. You posted (with my added emphasis)

Originally Posted by S-word
Yea mate, you might find some gullible people who will accept your veiw that Bacterium and Virus' are on an equal step upon the ladder of evolution as mankind, but you're wasting your time attempting to convince me.

The words I have bolded make no biological sense at all. Evolution is not a 'ladder', and there is no scale for measuring organisms' 'equality' or 'inequality'. When Gabe in post 124 wrote of "equality ... in their evolution" he was - correct me if I misinterpret you, Gabe - referring to the fact that all extant species are 'evolved' to the same extent, not to their position on some imaginary scale of worth.

 

[S-word]

I am very much of their mind, and offense doesn't come into it. You posted (with my added emphasis)
The words I have bolded make no biological sense at all. Evolution is not a 'ladder', and there is no scale for measuring organisms' 'equality' or 'inequality'. When Gabe in post 124 wrote of "equality ... in their evolution" he was - correct me if I misinterpret you, Gabe - referring to the fact that all extant species are 'evolved' to the same extent, not to their position on some imaginary scale of worth.

Which is the greater, the space shuttle or the billion and billion of creations from the wheel to the day when all the infrastructure and knowledge had been gathered, by which the space shuttle could then be created? Now I understand, that without those billions and billions of creations that preceeded the space shuttle, it could never have been formed, but surely the house is a more grander creation than the material from which it was built.

 

[johnhanks]

Which is the greater, the space shuttle or the billion and billion of creations from the wheel to the day when all the infrastructure and knowledge had been gathered, by which the space shuttle could then be created? Now I understand, that without those billions and billions of creations that preceeded the space shuttle, it could never have been formed, but surely the house is a more grander creation than the material from which it was built.

Sorry, but the idea of a more (or less) 'grander creation' still has no biological meaning whatsoever. Organisms are selected for their viability and reproductive capacity, not for their grandness.

 

[painted wolf]

Ahh! So you classify &#8216;saprophytes,; which are living organisms such as fungus or bacterium, and viruses, which are microscopic pathogens that have the ability to replicate only inside a living cell, as belonging to the animal kingdom, and you believe also, that these are more complex and higher that WE, in the evolutionary process from which mankind came into being, do You?

Matey, if they, which are part and parcel of the life within the body of mankind are forever evolving, then this should prove to you that the living body in which you, the mind/spirit is developing, is still in the process of evolution.

Saprophytes... are you sure this is the term you wanted to use? Parasites and symbiotes are what I was referring to... and not all viruses are pathogenic.

Which is greater, blue or purple? What branch of a tree is the greatest?
Evolution is not composed of levels or steps no matter how much the human ego needs to feel like its the 'best'.

wa:do

 

[Gabethewiking]

And what evidence do you follow? As you refuse to believe anything that I have said, it is obvious that you do not believe that the Big Bang theory is the best model of the origin of the universe that we have according to all the available data that has been accumulated by the mind of man thus far.

As you refuse to accept that the singularity of origin which was torn asunder with a Big Bang that still reverberates throughout the cosmos today, and which is believed to be the origin all that was, all that is, and all that ever will be, then please feel free to present the EVIDENCE that you have in regard to the origin from which all things evolved. Or should I say, "then please feel free to present the EVIDENCE that you have in regard to that which was in the beginning and has evolved to be all that has, does, and will ever exist."

S-word, as johnhanks points out (just as I did), there is no "equality" or "inequality", there is no "scale" to climb here.

You seem not only to misunderstand Evolution, but also most of Science such as Cosmology which you seem to combine into Evolution and everything else. I will try to clarify to explain to you the fact of the matter and I hope you wont misunderstand this time.

Human beings are Apes - Fact
Human beings share a common ancestor with other Apes - Fact

It is so hard to explain without graphical representation if you have no foundational knowledge about evolution, so this is rather hard for me to formulate, others would do it better.

Have a look at this:

>---------------------------------------------------------------------<

Each of the points represents a "time" in which we look at it. During one of these "times" some of what we call our ancestors diverged from the "main group" and got, somehow, isolated in which, during a certain amount of time, caused them to be so different from their original decent that they would be defined as a different species (by us), now, they continue to change with each child born and with the help of natural selection whatever (most) was suitable for mother nature stayed in their genetic pool and they changed and formed during time. Eventually, We came to be, and whiles we live today, your child is different from you, just as any other child is different from their parents, and with time, Humans will cease to be Humans and something else.

Do you understand?

Now, our closest relative the Chimpanzee have the same ancestor, the group that would eventually come to be Chimpanzees would most likely live during a different time, perhaps they diverged earlier then our group, or later, moder nature made them suitable for the enviroment they lived in, and here they are today.

Both are Equal, they are the Same on all levels, Two different Animals going different paths. We are not superior, and they are not inferior, we are both suited for the world we live in but took different paths.

Do you understand?

 

[S-word]

S-word, as johnhanks points out (just as I did), there is no "equality" or "inequality", there is no "scale" to climb here.

You seem not only to misunderstand Evolution, but also most of Science such as Cosmology which you seem to combine into Evolution and everything else. I will try to clarify to explain to you the fact of the matter and I hope you wont misunderstand this time.

Human beings are Apes - Fact
Human beings share a common ancestor with other Apes - Fact

It is so hard to explain without graphical representation if you have no foundational knowledge about evolution, so this is rather hard for me to formulate, others would do it better.

Have a look at this:

>---------------------------------------------------------------------<

Each of the points represents a "time" in which we look at it. During one of these "times" some of what we call our ancestors diverged from the "main group" and got, somehow, isolated in which, during a certain amount of time, caused them to be so different from their original decent that they would be defined as a different species (by us), now, they continue to change with each child born and with the help of natural selection whatever (most) was suitable for mother nature stayed in their genetic pool and they changed and formed during time. Eventually, We came to be, and whiles we live today, your child is different from you, just as any other child is different from their parents, and with time, Humans will cease to be Humans and something else.

Do you understand?

Now, our closest relative the Chimpanzee have the same ancestor, the group that would eventually come to be Chimpanzees would most likely live during a different time, perhaps they diverged earlier then our group, or later, moder nature made them suitable for the enviroment they lived in, and here they are today.

Both are Equal, they are the Same on all levels, Two different Animals going different paths. We are not superior, and they are not inferior, we are both suited for the world we live in but took different paths.

Do you understand?

You seem not only to misunderstand Evolution, but also most of Science such as Cosmology which you seem to combine into Evolution and everything else.

It was not until the singularity of origin had become Galaxies with their solar sytems and planets that conditions became sutible for the eventual evolution of the first life forms that would eventually evolve into Mankind who is Lord of Creatures and the current Most High in the creation. Do you understand?

Believe as you will my dear friend but you will never convince me to abandon my belief that the theory of an eternal cyclic universe was around long before our scientific friends came up with the Big Bang theory with its expansion from an infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity to the universe that we know today, and its possible eventual contraction, where all that will be in existence at that time, will be returned to the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity from which it originated.

Brahman the singularity, is said to be the essential divine reality of the universe; the eternal and invisible spirit from which all being originates and to which all must return. At the close of each period of universal activity, the most high that Brahman becomes/evolves into, enters into the singularity as the Supreme Personality of Godhead: the Most High in the creation at that point in time.

Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non being, and again from non being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.&#8221; ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

The days of Brahma are called Manvantara or the cycle of manifestation, &#8216;The Great Day,&#8217; which is a period of universal activity, that is preceded, and also followed by &#8216;Pralaya,&#8217; a dark period, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity. &#8216;Manvantara,&#8217; is a creative day as seen in the six days of creation in Genesis, &#8216;Pralaya,&#8217; is the evening that precedes the next creative day. The six periods of Creation and the seventh day of rest in which we now exist are referred to in the book of Genesis as the generations of the universe.

The English word &#8220;Generation,&#8221; is translated from the Hebrew &#8220;toledoth&#8221; which is used in the Old Testament in every instance as &#8216;births,&#8217; or &#8216;descendants,&#8217; such as &#8220;These are the generations of Adam,&#8221; or &#8220;these are the generations of Abraham, and Genesis 2: 4; These are the generations of the Universe or heavens and earth, etc. And the &#8216;Great Day&#8217; in which the seven generations of the universe are eternally repeated, is the eternal cosmic period of the eighth eternal day in which those who attain to perfection are allowed to enter, where they shall be surrounded by great light and they shall experience eternal peace, while those who do not attain to perfection are cast back into the refining fires of the seven physical cycles that perpetually revolve within the eighth eternal cosmic cycle.

Origen, , was a Christian writer and teacher who lived between the years of 185 and 254 AD. Among his many works is the Hexapla, which is his interpretation of the Old Testament texts. Origen holds to a series of worlds following one upon the other,-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it.


Genesis 1: 2; "The earth was without form and void." Should be correctly translated; "The earth became formless and void." The Hebrew word "Hayah," which is here translated "WAS," means; "To become. Occur. Come to pass. Be." (Vines complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, 1985, "To Be.")

For the day will come when the heavens shall roll up as a scroll with a great hissing noise, and the elements of this living universal body will become so excited they shall burn up and fall as Massive columns of fire beyond all measure in height and depth, into the great Abyss, Black Hole, the seemingly bottomless pit, from which this universal body will be resurrected, to continue on in the eternal process of evolution. Good bye dear friend.

 

[Amill]

Yea mate, you might find some gullible people who will accept your veiw that Bacterium and Virus' are on an equal step upon the ladder of evolution as mankind, but you're wasting your time attempting to convince me.

What makes you think it's a ladder? And what is the factor that determines where organisms are at on the ladder?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

We human being, whether Black, white , brown, yellow or brindle, are the most high in the evolution of the animal world, and WE have gained dominion over all animal life forms that preceeded US, and WE, mankind are currently the Most High in the creation.

Complete an utter nonsense!....:areyoucra

 

[Kerr]

We human being, whether Black, white , brown, yellow or brindle, are the most high in the evolution of the animal world, and WE have gained dominion over all animal life forms that preceeded US, and WE, mankind are currently the Most High in the creation.

And ebola kills us very easy.

 

[tumbleweed41]

And ebola kills us very easy.

Indeed.
If we must rank life on Earth in some arbitrary hierarchy, I would think the simple, yet evolutionary superior virus would be ranked #1.

 

[Gabethewiking]

You seem not only to misunderstand Evolution, but also most of Science such as Cosmology which you seem to combine into Evolution and everything else.

It was not until the singularity of origin had become Galaxies with their solar sytems and planets that conditions became sutible for the eventual evolution of the first life forms that would eventually evolve into Mankind who is Lord of Creatures and the current Most High in the creation. Do you understand?

Believe as you will my dear friend but you will never convince me to abandon my belief that the theory of an eternal cyclic universe was around long before our scientific friends came up with the Big Bang theory with its expansion from an infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity to the universe that we know today, and its possible eventual contraction, where all that will be in existence at that time, will be returned to the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity from which it originated.

Brahman the singularity, is said to be the essential divine reality of the universe; the eternal and invisible spirit from which all being originates and to which all must return. At the close of each period of universal activity, the most high that Brahman becomes/evolves into, enters into the singularity as the Supreme Personality of Godhead: the Most High in the creation at that point in time.

Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non being, and again from non being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.” ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

The days of Brahma are called Manvantara or the cycle of manifestation, ‘The Great Day,’ which is a period of universal activity, that is preceded, and also followed by ‘Pralaya,’ a dark period, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity. ‘Manvantara,’ is a creative day as seen in the six days of creation in Genesis, ‘Pralaya,’ is the evening that precedes the next creative day. The six periods of Creation and the seventh day of rest in which we now exist are referred to in the book of Genesis as the generations of the universe.

The English word “Generation,” is translated from the Hebrew “toledoth” which is used in the Old Testament in every instance as ‘births,’ or ‘descendants,’ such as “These are the generations of Adam,” or “these are the generations of Abraham, and Genesis 2: 4; These are the generations of the Universe or heavens and earth, etc. And the ‘Great Day’ in which the seven generations of the universe are eternally repeated, is the eternal cosmic period of the eighth eternal day in which those who attain to perfection are allowed to enter, where they shall be surrounded by great light and they shall experience eternal peace, while those who do not attain to perfection are cast back into the refining fires of the seven physical cycles that perpetually revolve within the eighth eternal cosmic cycle.

Origen, , was a Christian writer and teacher who lived between the years of 185 and 254 AD. Among his many works is the Hexapla, which is his interpretation of the Old Testament texts. Origen holds to a series of worlds following one upon the other,-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it.


Genesis 1: 2; "The earth was without form and void." Should be correctly translated; "The earth became formless and void." The Hebrew word "Hayah," which is here translated "WAS," means; "To become. Occur. Come to pass. Be." (Vines complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, 1985, "To Be.")

For the day will come when the heavens shall roll up as a scroll with a great hissing noise, and the elements of this living universal body will become so excited they shall burn up and fall as Massive columns of fire beyond all measure in height and depth, into the great Abyss, Black Hole, the seemingly bottomless pit, from which this universal body will be resurrected, to continue on in the eternal process of evolution. Good bye dear friend.

+

So you decided not to respond to my post. Fine. You will never accept Evidence that contradics your personall subjective belief, is that the point here?

 

[Gabethewiking]

Indeed.
If we must rank life on Earth in some arbitrary hierarchy, I would think the simple, yet evolutionary superior virus would be ranked #1.

If animals are concerned, Cockroaches and such are clearly superior to man, who lived a very short time in comparison. But Viruses are obviously rather hard to beat.

I wonder if he considers Trees to be alive or Dead?

 

[S-word]

Indeed.
If we must rank life on Earth in some arbitrary hierarchy, I would think the simple, yet evolutionary superior virus would be ranked #1.

Evolution: 1: A gradual process in which something changes into a significantly different, especially more complex and more sophisticated, form.

This living universal body, is much more complex and sophisticated than the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity that was torn asunder for the foundation of this universe, wouldn&#8217;t you agree?

The virus of today may have evolved to be a more complex and sophisticated virus than that which existed millions of years ago, but the virus is just one integral part of the evolving singularity of origin which is the only thing that is evolving, because all that exist, are it. And it evolves through the evolution of all the integral parts which make up the entirety of the living singularity.

The very first things that we could classify as living, could not have evolved, until the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity that was torn asunder for the foundation of this universe, had evolved into this galaxy in which is the solar system wherein our earth was formed, and when conditions upon the earth were suitable for the formation and sustainability of life; life began to evolve from the universal elements that the singularity had evolved into.

Today, Apart from the living universal body itself, which is the evolved singularity; the most complex and sophisticated of all the life forms that the singularity is known to have evolved into, is the current Most High within the evolved living universal body, and that most complex and sophisticated life form is Mankind, &#8220;The Lord of Creatures.&#8221; End of story, it&#8217;s up to you to prove otherwise. Goodbye my friend.

 

[Gabethewiking]

Evolution: 1: A gradual process in which something changes into a significantly different, especially more complex and more sophisticated, form.

NO, INCORRECT!!!
You where kinda right until the point of "sophisticated" and "complex". No, it only means "A gradual process in which something changes", nothing else.

This living universal body, is much more complex and sophisticated than the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity that was torn asunder for the foundation of this universe, wouldn’t you agree?

False premise on what is "superior" and "inferior". What do you base your claim on?

The virus of today may have evolved to be a more complex and sophisticated virus than that which existed millions of years ago, but the virus is just one integral part of the evolving singularity of origin which is the only thing that is evolving, because all that exist, are it. And it evolves through the evolution of all the integral parts which make up the entirety of the living singularity.

Ok.

The very first things that we could classify as living, could not have evolved, until the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity that was torn asunder for the foundation of this universe, had evolved into this galaxy in which is the solar system wherein our earth was formed, and when conditions upon the earth were suitable for the formation and sustainability of life; life began to evolve from the universal elements that the singularity had evolved into.

You are now talking abiogenesis, you also make a claim that the first "living thing" could not have evolved , I do not know what you base this on.

Toda Apart from the living universal body itself, which is the evolved singularity; the most complex and sophisticated of all the life forms that the singularity is known to have evolved into, is the current Most High within the evolved living universal body, and that most complex and sophisticated life form is Mankind, “The Lord of Creatures.” End of story, it’s up to you to prove otherwise. Goodbye my friend.

What do you use to define "most high"?
You have not given us a Benchmark to what is "more" or "less" complex to others as well as you given no logical reason to accept such a thing. It seems you want humans to be "the most high" and therefore it is true.


Okej, Say I accept this, my question to you now is as Humans EVOLVE into BETTER things, according to you, WHICH humans are above OTHER humans? We humans EVOLVE UPWARDS by your own words, that means SOME Human tribes MUST BE SUPERIOR to others. Please tell me which.

Africans? Asians? Scandinavians? White Americans? Native Americans?

This is by your OWN LOGIC, as we evolved into BETTER beings that means One Trbie of Humans MUST be superior to Others because of seclusion. Are Blacks less then Whites? You can not escape this, YOUR OWN WORDS, Which Humans are the "Most High"?

Whites have been a popular one these last centuries, you got plenty racist material on that, but you could go with Asian? Blacks? Anything you want, just respond.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Standard religionist logic = "this is my claim, and it stands until you can disprove it"

I certainly hope I never find myself in a creationist courtroom.

 

[S-word]

And ebola kills us very easy.

You've made the statement matey, now you prove it.

When you say us, you are referring to the species, that is "Mankind." and I maintain that the intelligence that the singularity of origin has evolved and which is expressed as the species of Mankind, is capable of defending itself from any attack by the ebola virus that would theaten to distroy the species of mankind.

The ebola virus has never been able to kill the species of mankind.
So your claim that the ebola virus is able to kill US, who are the most complex and sophisticated species that is known to have evolved within the eternal evolving singularity of origin, is baseless. Good bye friend.

 

[Gabethewiking]

So your claim that the ebola virus is able to kill US, who are the most complex and sophisticated species that is known to have evolved within the eternal evolving singularity of origin, is baseless. Good bye friend.

Please provide evidence that Homo sapien sapien are "the most complex and sophisticated species that is known to have evolved within the eternal evolving singularity of origin". This is an amazing claim as we have not even left our own Galazy yet.

Provide evidence or retract your claim.