Has human evolution been disproved?

[ImmortalFlame]

Well one difference is animals evolve to adapt to its environment and humans make our environment evolve to us!

With humans it's kind of firing out of both pipes (if you'll excuse the expression). We're building environments that best fit us, but that doesn't stop some populations from reproducing more successfully than others. In other words: we're evolving more to fit our environment that, in turn, is being adapted to fit us.

Thinking about that concept for any prolonged period of time makes your mind do a back-flip.

 

[S-word]

No, because we have the intelligence to contain them.

But that's all we have. Intelligence. We are inferior to those animals in practically every other way. The fact is that it is our intelligence, and our intelligence alone, that separates us and has allowed us to gain what you would call "dominion" over the earth. In truth, we're really no different to them - we just have one distinct advantage that happens to account for a lot. I mean, do you think mankind just appeared on earth and instantly the animal world bowed down before us? Hell no. We were living hand-to-mouth, running scared of any predators on the plains for thousands of years before modern technology and society made them less and less of a threat.


Depends how you define "dominion". In the sense that we have a kind of "controlling share", if you like, of nature and the largest ability to exert control over it - then sure, we do. Does that mean that we are somehow inherently superior to them? No, it does not. We are just as evolved as they are, and we are just as much a part of the animal kingdom as they are. Why does our intelligence alone make us inherently superior over all other forms of life than, say, a shark's ability to track blood? Or a bear's physical strength? Or a bat's sense of direction?

I mean, consider the following: cockroaches and cats. Because of human society, cockroaches have thrived by feeding on our unused resources and taking homes within the labyrinthine constructs we have put together. They outnumber us, can outlive us and are perfectly adapted for living as a result of humans. Cats have become domesticated by humans, and as a result most cats live entirely from human's efforts to sustain them, and have come to rely on us for just about every facet of their lives - and what do they give us in return? Practically nothing. In many ways, cockroaches and cats could be considered a far more successful species than humans are, since both have developed to a point where they can live and thrive without any real effort or threats thanks to human society.


No, I don't. In fact, I have repeatedly stated that there is no such thing as "higher" or "lower" in terms of evolution, and that everything that is alive today is just as "evolved" as anything else. You seem to have this strange idea that just because other forms of life aren't as intelligent or evolved "before" us (even though, as I have stated, that is a fallacious statement to make) makes us somehow superior. It does not. We are living things just as much as any other living thing is. There is no inherent superiority in being a human - we just happen to be the most intelligent species on the planet (thus far).

So what you are saying in reality is, that the Space shuttle is no higher in relation to the creations of man, than the first wooden wheel that your most ancient ancestor rolled down a hill; am I correct? And by the way, you do not have intelligence, you, the mind/spirit that develops in that body of animated universal elements, is intelligence, which has evolved within this living universal body, and the intelligence that has evolved, is the Most High in the evolution of the singularity of origin.

The animals whom you seem to prefer over your brothers, "Mankind," are simply one with the great ecco system, they cannot be disobedient to the evolving ancestral spirit within them. Unlike we, "mankind," who broke away from the great evolving spirit and condemned the commands of our indwelling ancestral spirit as being evil, we decided that we would determine for ourselves that which is good and bad, and until the war that rages within us has come to its ultimate completion, and we become true to who we are, we will not be re-united to our ancestral spirit who was, who is, and who always will be. It is we who condemn as cruel, the hunting and killing instints of animals such as cats etc, we snatch the poor tortured mouse from the claws of its murderer, it is we who sheild the eyes of our chilren from the disgusting dogs who are copulating on our lawn, those evil and filty creatures. We will not be subject to the controlling spirit of those disgusting sex crazed and murdering blood lusting creatures.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

So what you are saying in reality is, that the Space shuttle is no higer in relation to the creations of man, than the first wooden wheel that your most ancient ancestor rolled down a hill; am I correct?

Again, no. Because now you're comparing man-made things with living systems.

I am saying that there is nothing inherent in life that makes one species "superior" to another in the way that you assert, and that there is no such concept in reality as "more" or "less" evolved. Humanity simply evolved to be intelligent, and this intelligence allows us a great degree of control over nature. This does not mean that we are somehow inherently superior, we are just smarter. That is all.

And by the way, you do not have intelligence, you, the mind/spirit that develops in that body of animated eniversal elements, is intelligence, which has evolved within this living universal body, and the intelligence that has evolved, is the Most High in the evolution of the singularity of origin.

None of this makes any sense. There is no concept of "high" or "low" in terms of evolution. You're just babbling now.

 

[Gabethewiking]

We human being, whether Black, white , brown, yellow or brindle, are the most high in the evolution of the animal world, and WE have gained dominion over all animal life forms that preceeded US, and WE, mankind are currently the Most High in the creation.

You are wrong, all animals living today, including all apes, are equal to all other animals in their Evolution. So how do you mean life forms "preceeded" us?


This strange "high" and "low" you speak of and "us" and "them" is pure racism talk. This is what the KKK and any other racial system use to define "us" superior to "them", be it blacks and whites or whales and humans, it makes no sense and you provide no evidence for your claim.

 

[S-word]

You are wrong, all animals living today, including all apes, are equal to all other animals in their Evolution. So how do you mean life forms "preceeded" us?

how do you mean life forms "preceeded" us?

What! Do you believe that man existed before the primates such as apes etc, or do you believe as I believe, that those animals preceeded, the evolution of mankind.

 

[Gabethewiking]

how do you mean life forms "preceeded" us?

What! Do you believe that man existed before the primates such as apes etc, or do you believe as I believe, that those animals preceeded, the evolution of mankind.

I do not believe anything and your belief is irrelevant to the evidence we have. The evidence show us that we have evolved from a common ancestor just as chimpanzees which is our closest relative.

We are defined as part of the Ape family together with other animals such as the Chimpanzee, which we share a common ancestor with, do you deny this fact which is based on evidence?

Do you think your belief or opinion is superior to evidence?

 

[S-word]

I do not believe anything and your belief is irrelevant to the evidence we have. The evidence show us that we have evolved from a common ancestor just as chimpanzees which is our closest relative.

We are defined as part of the Ape family together with other animals such as the Chimpanzee, which we share a common ancestor with, do you deny this fact which is based on evidence?

Do you think your belief or opinion is superior to evidence?

No my dear friend, we have evolved from the same thing that the chimpanzees evolved from, and that is the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity that was spatially separated by the animating principle that pervades all that was, all that is, and all that every will be. why; do you believe that the chimpanzee, is the beginning of the evolutionary process?

 

[Gabethewiking]

No my dear friend, we have evolved from the same thing that the chimpanzees evolved from, and that is the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity that was spatially separated by the animating principle that pervades all that was, all that is, and all that every will be. why; do you believe that the chimpanzee, is the beginning of the evolutionary process?

I do not think english is your first language, am I right? No insult intended but you did not seem to understand what I said previously.

You also seem not to understand Eovlution. No, we did not evolve "from the same thing" Chimpanzees evolved "from", we share a common ancestor with the Chimpanzees. We change constantly, when you have children they are a change to you and so forth, at some point the family of the past family of Chimpanzees and the past family of Human got SEPERATED and evolved into different types of animals, the ones you seem today.

Once again, I do not believe, you seem very hot on this belief, it is called self-projection, you think that because You believe something, everyone else do it to, no, I follow the EVIDENCE.

 

[S-word]

Again, no. Because now you're comparing man-made things with living systems.

I am saying that there is nothing inherent in life that makes one species "superior" to another in the way that you assert, and that there is no such concept in reality as "more" or "less" evolved. Humanity simply evolved to be intelligent, and this intelligence allows us a great degree of control over nature. This does not mean that we are somehow inherently superior, we are just smarter. That is all.


None of this makes any sense. There is no concept of "high" or "low" in terms of evolution. You're just babbling now.

No my dear friend, it was not humanity that evolved intelligence, it was the singularity of origin that evolved to be humanity, who evolved intelligence, which intelligence was gathered before the creation of humanity. The eternal evolving spirit, rules the creation from the Most High species that he has evolved into at any given point in time. He ruled the earth for over three million years in the body of the old upright walking reptile who was the Most High in the creation during the Jurassic age, and the first human being was the compilation of the evolved intelligence.

We, “mankind,” were created in the image and likeness of the creator of all that is. Only a fool would look at the complexity and beauty of the creation and believe that it simply came into existence through the process of random chance and that there is no creator. To understand the creator God we only have to look at his earthly image, the multi celled androgynous body of (Adam) mankind, which body of mankind is of both male and female cells.

How many are there who would look at the space shuttle and the ground control system ,without which the space shuttle would be useless, and believe that it had no designer and that it had come into existence through random chance? Not too many I would suggest. But only the fools would believe that it was not created through the long and slow gradual process of the evolution of the mind of its creator. When one of our most ancient ancestors watched a log roll down a hill and thereafter created the first wheel, he did not turn to his partners and say, “There you are, I have just created the first component that will go into the creation of our future space shuttle.”

From the first wheel, the first primitive wheel barrow was created, then the multi wooden wheeled cart, etc, etc, over tens of thousands of years, and billions and billions of creations, each creation being the expression of the height to which the mind of the creator had evolved to at the point in time of each of those creations, man was ready to create the space shuttle.

When the mind of man (who is created in the image and likeness of God) had evolved to the point where it contained the necessary data to create the Space shuttle and all its supporting infrastructure, the space shuttle was created and the creator saw that it was good. The space shuttle could never have come into existence until the mind of man had evolved to the heights where he was capable of completing such a creation, and had accumulated all the data from the previous creations from which he could create the space shuttle, which is the compilation of all the previous creations.

And so it is with the invisible mind that is God in whose image and likeness mankind was created. The creation at any given point in time is merely the expression and visible manifestation of the invisible mind that is God, and mankind, who is but the current Most High in the creation, is the compilation of all that preceeded him.

 

[S-word]

I do not think english is your first language, am I right? No insult intended but you did not seem to understand what I said previously.

You also seem not to understand Eovlution. No, we did not evolve "from the same thing" Chimpanzees evolved "from", we share a common ancestor with the Chimpanzees. We change constantly, when you have children they are a change to you and so forth, at some point the family of the past family of Chimpanzees and the past family of Human got SEPERATED and evolved into different types of animals, the ones you seem today.

Once again, I do not believe, you seem very hot on this belief, it is called self-projection, you think that because You believe something, everyone else do it to, no, I follow the EVIDENCE.

And what evidence do you follow? As you refuse to believe anything that I have said, it is obvious that you do not believe that the Big Bang theory is the best model of the origin of the universe that we have according to all the available data that has been accumulated by the mind of man thus far.

As you refuse to accept that the singularity of origin which was torn asunder with a Big Bang that still reverberates throughout the cosmos today, and which is believed to be the origin all that was, all that is, and all that ever will be, then please feel free to present the EVIDENCE that you have in regard to the origin from which all things evolved. Or should I say, "then please feel free to present the EVIDENCE that you have in regard to that which was in the beginning and has evolved to be all that has, does, and will ever exist."

 

[ImmortalFlame]

No my dear friend, it was not humanity that evolved intelligence, it was the singularity of origin that evolved to be humanity, who evolved intelligence, which intelligence was gathered before the creation of humanity.

Again, none of this makes any sense.

The eternal evolving spirit, rules the creation from the Most High species that he has evolved into at any given point in time. He ruled the earth for over three million years in the body of the old upright walking reptile who was the Most High in the creation during the Jurassic age, and the first human being was the compilation of the evolved intelligence.

Evidence, please.

We, “mankind,” were created in the image and likeness of the creator of all that is. Only a fool would look at the complexity and beauty of the creation and believe that it simply came into existence through the process of random chance and that there is no creator. To understand the creator God we only have to look at his earthly image, the multi celled androgynous body of (Adam) mankind, which body of mankind is of both male and female cells.

1) Provide evidence that God exists.
2) Provide evidence that mankind is made in God's image.
3) Provide evidence that complexity can only be the result of design.
4) Provide evidence that any process which does not involve God is inherently "random".

How many are there who would look at the space shuttle and the ground control system ,without which the space shuttle would be useless, and believe that it had no designer and that it had come into existence through random chance? Not too many I would suggest. But only the fools would believe that it was not created through the long and slow gradual process of the evolution of the mind of its creator. When one of our most ancient ancestors watched a log roll down a hill and thereafter created the first wheel, he did not turn to his partners and say, “There you are, I have just created the first component that will go into the creation of our future space shuttle.”

But there is a difference between structures which we know to be designed, such as a space shuttle, and an organic living body, which we know to be the result of natural processes.

What's more, have you taken into account where the materials came from that mankind used to shape the shuttle? Natural processes. Why is it that you make the claim that complex things can only be designed, when complex atomic structures - such as those found in the ores used in the making of space shuttles - form through natural processes within the earth. Equally, a snowflake has an incredibly intricate, symmetrical shape. Why is it that you do not conclude, therefore, that snowflakes were individually crafted by God?

It is because we know that ore and snowflakes form through well-understood natural processes. What evidence can you present that makes life any different?

From the first wheel, the first primitive wheel barrow was created, then the multi wooden wheeled cart, etc, etc, over tens of thousands of years, and billions and billions of creations, each creation being the expression of the height to which the mind of the creator had evolved to at the point in time of each of those creations, man was ready to create the space shuttle.

When the mind of man (who is created in the image and likeness of God) had evolved to the point where it contained the necessary data to create the Space shuttle and all its supporting infrastructure, the space shuttle was created and the creator saw that it was good. The space shuttle could never have come into existence until the mind of man had evolved to the heights where he was capable of completing such a creation, and had accumulated all the data from the previous creations from which he could create the space shuttle, which is the compilation of all the previous creations.

nd so it is with the invisible mind that is God in whose image and likeness mankind was created. The creation at any given point in time is merely the expression and visible manifestation of the invisible mind that is God, and mankind, who is but the current Most High in the creation, is the compilation of all that preceeded him.

This is all just presumptive, spiritual woo that has absolutely no basis whatsoever. Answer my four objections above, and then you might have a case worth discussing.

 

[S-word]

Again, none of this makes any sense.


Evidence, please.


1) Provide evidence that God exists.
2) Provide evidence that mankind is made in God's image.
3) Provide evidence that complexity can only be the result of design.
4) Provide evidence that any process which does not involve God is inherently "random".


But there is a difference between structures which we know to be designed, such as a space shuttle, and an organic living body, which we know to be the result of natural processes.

What's more, have you taken into account where the materials came from that mankind used to shape the shuttle? Natural processes. Why is it that you make the claim that complex things can only be designed, when complex atomic structures - such as those found in the ores used in the making of space shuttles - form through natural processes within the earth. Equally, a snowflake has an incredibly intricate, symmetrical shape. Why is it that you do not conclude, therefore, that snowflakes were individually crafted by God?

It is because we know that ore and snowflakes form through well-understood natural processes. What evidence can you present that makes life any different?


This is all just presumptive, spiritual woo that has absolutely no basis whatsoever. Answer my four objections above, and then you might have a case worth discussing.

Have you taken into account where the materials came from, by which mankind and the entire living universal body were formed? Natural processes.

Immediately after the Big Bang, the primitive universe was nothing but liquid like electromagnetic energy which was in the billion and billions of degrees. As the universal temperature began to cool, the quantum of that liquid-like electromagnetic energy, was gathered in the creation of all that is, and the quantum of that electromagnetic energy, which h is believed to be wave particles which in reality, are not particles at all, as they have zero mass, no electric charge and yet carry angular and linear momentum, which is the animating principle that becomes all that was, is, and ever will be.

All visible matter is but invisible wave particles. What is a rock? Except a gathering of molecules that you perceive as that rock. But what is a molecule? It is no more than a gathering of atoms which are but sub-atomic particles that you perceive as atoms, which sub-atomic particles are simply wave particles, each occupying different position in space and time, in the apparent one point in time.

So we understand that the visible universe is no more than a cloud of wave particles that you, through the senses of that body in which you, the mind/spirit is developing, and which body is but a vibrating pattern of wave particles within the greater cosmic cloud, perceive as the visible universe.

Now I know that a person, who, is in a state of deep meditation or hypnosis, is able to descend into his inner most being where space and time are as one, and there they are able to merge with a living mind of their past and experience the life and times of their living ancestor. And while merged with a mind of their living ancestor, their comatose body in the present begins to speak in the tongue of their ancient ancestor, which language is totally foreign to the person in question, while the ancient ancestor in his own time, babbles incomprehensively in his attempt to give form and terminology to the visions that he is receiving from the mind of his as yet unborn descendant of the future, which terminology to express such visions have not even developed in his point in time. Knowing this to be true, I would ask you, have you ever received a visitation of your as yet unborn descendant of the far distant future?

Evidence, please.
1) Provide evidence that God exists.
2) Provide evidence that mankind is made in God's image.
3) Provide evidence that complexity can only be the result of design.
4) Provide evidence that any process which does not involve God is inherently "random".

The only evidence I will give to you, is that what ever was in the beginning, has evolved to become all that has ever existed, all that now exists, and all that will ever exist. I will show that the universal body is no more than a cloud of animated wave particles which in reality are not particles at all, but are generally accepted as discrete stable elementary particles. I will show that within the cosmic cloud, there teams a myriad of patterns that we perceive as life forms within the body of universal elements which are but Wave particles, in which perceived universal body, an intelligence evolves which is able to comprehend the mind that is developing within the body, and that an intelligent godhead which is the compilation of the life within the body, develops as the supreme person of godhead to that living body.

I can prove that whatever was in the beginning has become “Who I Am,” and that “Who I Am” is joined to his beginning by an unbroken genetic thread of life and He has never experienced death. And I have no reason to believe that “Who I Am” will ever experience death. I believe that as long as I, the mind/spirit that is developing in this body, which is the tabernacle of “Who I Am,” remain true to, and an extension of, “Who I Am,” I will continue to live in him as he now lives in me. That is why I say:

Get behind me you charlatan priests and you shams
For I am true to my God, to MY God, “Who I Am.”

For today I became the one I am
The one that I was yesterday is gone
The one I’ll be tomorrow I will be
But today I found, “I Am Who I Am.”

Yes, I am who I am, and may I never lose sight
Of the fact that I am, ‘who I am’ day and night
I’m not who I was, nor who I will be
For “Who I Am,” is the name that my God gave to me.

 

[johnhanks]

Ahh! So you classify ‘saprophytes,; which are living organisms such as fungus or bacterium,

Saprophytes are specifically microorganisms which decompose dead matter by extracellular digestion. When a microorganism is pathogenic it is acting as a parasite, whether obligate or facultative.

... and viruses, which are microscopic pathogens that have the ability to replicate only inside a living cell, as belonging to the animal kingdom and you believe also, that these are more complex and higher that WE, in the evolutionary process from which mankind came into being, do You?

Who said anything about more complex or higher?

But if you insist your remarks were restricted to the animal kingdom, just go for a swim somewhere where bilharzia is endemic and impress the schistosomes with your dominance.

 

[S-word]

Saprophytes are specifically microorganisms which decompose dead matter by extracellular digestion. When a microorganism is pathogenic it is acting as a parasite, whether obligate or facultative.
Who said anything about more complex or higher?

But if you insist your remarks were restricted to the animal kingdom, just go for a swim somewhere where bilharzia is endemic and impress the schistosomes with your dominance.

Yea mate, you might find some gullible people who will accept your veiw that Bacterium and Virus' are on an equal step upon the ladder of evolution as mankind, but you're wasting your time attempting to convince me.

 

[johnhanks]

Yea mate, you might find some gullible people who will accept your veiw that Bacterium and Virus' are on an equal step upon the ladder of evolution as mankind, but you're wasting your time attempting to convince me.

I suspect I might be wasting my time talking to you at all, as I did not post anything like the statement you have quoted. Mate.

 

[DarkSun]

Just like computers go back to being "1's and 0's", Science itself is derived from math.

Galileo is quoted to have said:



Using the concept of math, we should be able to prove or disprove things, even the existence of GOD, using math. Maybe it was not possible at certain times but we are at an era where the mind reigns. Knowledge has become true power. For example, one man who could create a bomb may be able to win against 20 of the strongest men.

Now moving on to how math relates to evolution (specifically human evolution).

I've taken much of this information from here if you are interested in reading more:

Evolution and Math

A reminder before I continue, GOD wants us to use our minds to verify information, a true GOD is not afraid of being debated if they hold the absolute truth:



Now let us look at evolution mathematically:



Now, according to the article, let's go ahead and assume the monkey's gene is 99% similar to a human's gene (many evolutionists believe it is in the 90% range, please correct me if im mistaken).

At 99% similarity we're saying that we still need to "haphazardly rearrange" (or rearrange in a random manner) 300,000,000 nucleotides to turn a monkey into a human being.

See "Nucleotides" here:

Nucleotides

Probability laws state that this is simply impossible.

Human genes contain 3.3 BILLION nucleotides, so 300 million would be about .9-1%.

Now I couldn't finish this better myself so I just took the quote at the bottom:



I guess you could say that humans had a chance to evolve billions of times if you wanted to, but who initiated all those chances?

Nothing you have said here disproves evolution.
And nothing you have come up with in the following pages disproves evolution.

End of thread.

 

[S-word]

I do not think english is your first language, am I right? No insult intended but you did not seem to understand what I said previously.

You also seem not to understand Eovlution. No, we did not evolve "from the same thing" Chimpanzees evolved "from", we share a common ancestor with the Chimpanzees. We change constantly, when you have children they are a change to you and so forth, at some point the family of the past family of Chimpanzees and the past family of Human got SEPERATED and evolved into different types of animals, the ones you seem today.

Once again, I do not believe, you seem very hot on this belief, it is called self-projection, you think that because You believe something, everyone else do it to, no, I follow the EVIDENCE.

No, we did not evolve "from the same thing" Chimpanzees evolved "from",

Righto, here you are saying that we (Human Beings) did not evolve from the same thing/ancestor as the chimpanezees evolved from.

we share a common ancestor with the Chimpanzees.

Now in the same sentence, you reckon that we Human beings came from the same ancestor as did the chimpanezes. Make up your mind mate, which one is it to be?

 

[DarkSun]

Yea mate, you might find some gullible people who will accept your veiw that Bacterium and Virus' are on an equal step upon the ladder of evolution as mankind, but you're wasting your time attempting to convince me.

1 - There is no 'ladder' of evolution, since evolution is almost never linear.
2 - Prokaryotes have been around much longer than eukaryotes, so bacteria have been around much longer than us. But because we all derived from a common ancestor (if not more than one) I'd say we're on equal footing in evolutionary terms, tbh.
3 - A virus is just a bunch of genetic material wrapped up in a wall of glycoproteins and other macromolecules. It doesn't get much more simple than that.

 

[S-word]

I suspect I might be wasting my time talking to you at all, as I did not post anything like the statement you have quoted. Mate.

immortalFlame: post 117: No, because there is no "high" or "low" in the evolution process.

Post 120: I have repeatedly stated that there is no such thing as "higher" or "lower" in terms of evolution

Post 123: I am saying that there is nothing inherent in life that makes one species "superior" to another

Gabethewiking: post 124: You are wrong, all animals living today, including all apes, are equal to all other animals in their Evolution

As your posts appeared to be in support of these two people, I assumed that you were of the same mind, sorry if you were offended.

 

[DarkSun]

immortalFlame: post 117: No, because there is no "high" or "low" in the evolution process.

Post 120: I have repeatedly stated that there is no such thing as "higher" or "lower" in terms of evolution

Post 123: I am saying that there is nothing inherent in life that makes one species "superior" to another

Gabethewiking: post 124: You are wrong, all animals living today, including all apes, are equal to all other animals in their Evolution

As your posts appeared to be in support of these two people, I assumed that you were of the same mind, sorry if you were offended.

Those two people are absolutely right.
Why do you disagree with them? What scientific evidence do have on which to base your disagreement?