So why have you not accepted it then, why do you cling to previous ideas that others shown to be wrong?
What has been shown wrong here? That a completely different and much more intricate system in the Koran is incorrect because someone was able to find the names of 7 assassinations in a 2,000 page long book? Do I have to keep repeating my answer here, it seems we're beating around the bush. Go and find me something that truly compares, I doubt you've read all of the evidence presented on the number 19 in the Koran, WHY the #19 is used, and evidence of it being used in previous scriptures. This is something that far surpasses finding 7 names in a 2000 page long book. Keep in mind the Koran is more like 200-300 pages long and revealed 1400 years ago.
Haha, correct, you did not literally say that, but that was the meaning of your responses, was it not?
Again this is an accusation, where is your support to show that I really meant "no it's true" without showing any evidence. Again, I repeat myself, go through the two long posts and find reasons to make me disbelieve it rather than indirectly accuse me of meaning something I did not. Remember, I am a human being like anyone else on these forums, and unlike many human beings, I am not ashamed to admit my mistakes. I am not claiming to have authored the Koran, only GOD could have done that.
Immortal showed you that the Evidence, which you admit is subjective proof for you, was wrong and that it did not mean anything. How do you relate to that as the only thing I see now is repetition and more quatation if meaningless text.
I could say the same thing about repetitive arguments coming from you friend. I admit that the assassinations in Moby Dick were interesting but in the end it loses it's credibility because the chances of coming up with 7 names of people assassinated in a 2000 page book is far greater than finding 100's if not 1000's (and constantly growing) "coincidences" in a 200-300 page revelation from 1400 years ago. Am I wrong to say this?
You seem to be a reasonable man but when it comes to these religious issues you oppress your own reason, do you agree with my statement about you on that?
If you are referring to me not being reasonable about the mathematical evidence in the Koran, please note that before I believed it, when I was still SKEPTICAL about it and, in fact, naturally angry about it (coming from a traditional Muslim background, these teachings were "Heresy").. I was looking for every possible contradiction to it. This meant google-ing counter arguments about it, similar "miracles", etc. I could not find anything to compare to it.
If in the future I find clear evidence to disprove it I will reject it. I realize the fact that, in the past, people upheld ridiculous scientific teachings as the truth when they were later proven wrong. I believe this may very well still hold true for our teachings as well.
I ask you dear Gabe,
Before having this discussion with me, did you already label me as an ignorant religionists? I'm sorry if this is what causes people to disregard the evidence.
Actually, humans tend to belief in things that do not exist, such as gods, in overly majority. Reason and secularism is rather new to human kind which came with more the knowledge we gained about the world.
I agree, humans do agree to believe in things that do not exist.
Why would you have to believe anything, why not just accept what is real?
What is real to me doesn't have to be what I see physically. We have never SEEN evolution, but we believe it exists based on evidence. The same goes for belief in GOD. The evidence makes sense, our reason for being here makes sense, is that really worse than ignoring everything around us and just striving to live another day, each and every day?
For example, I accept the Fact of Evolution because of the Evidence that shows its true. Evolution is thus True. This is not any belief system or based on any opinions at all, it is based on the real wrold showing us the evidence for its existence. Is this not better then to believe things because you are told it or because you want it to be true?
Just as you believe in Evolution because of the evidence, I believe in GOD because of the evidence. In fact, neither of us have seen GOD or evolution personally, we don't see 'Dark Matter' which makes up a great majority of the universe, but we still believe it's there. Why is it so wrong when someone uses evidence to believe in GOD? I mean I understand that many people have corrupted religion and given it a bad impression, but anyone who truly researches it should know that in religious history, it was almost always a fact that very few people "really believed".
And this takes us back to Immortal, he showed you that the numerology means nothing, but you want it to and ignore the fact that Moby Dick can be exchanged for the Qu'ran, do you not see your biased here?
There is no real evidence to show that numerology truly means nothing. Instead I think I've already been labeled under what is understood to be "numerology" and that has diverted people's attention away from real evidence. Call it numerology or whatever you will, in the end the evidence is there. I don't know how times I have to repeat this as well: that Moby Dick, a 2000 page long book, has letters line up in 7 instances to spell names of 7 different assassinations ( even if they found more than that) is far from qualifying it to be exchanged with true evidence. We know that the writer's intention was never to "predict assassinations" in Moby Dick, whereas in the Koran, we learn the (even though it was revealed in a time of ignorance) that the evidence concerning the #19 was destined to be a powerful force in uniting those who would accept the evidence.
I leave you, my dear friends, with another 'coincidence' to ponder on:
[54:1]: The moon has split and the hour has drawn closer
Until recently traditional Muslims thought that the moon was actually split 'in half'. In fact, this prophecy was fulfilled when we landed on the moon and brought back lunar rocks, thus "splitting the moon".
More evidence of this is that in 54:1, we see the "19th" occurence of "Al-Qamar", or "The Moon"
Even more confirmation is that the lunar module "left" the moon's surface at:
17: 54: 1 (Universal Time) or 1: 54: 1 (EDT)
54:1, we see, is the name as the Chapter/Verse number in the Koran that speaks of the splitting of the moon.
Another interesting point: This prophecy came to pass on July 21, 1969
In a format used by most countries this would be:
21/07/1969, 21071969 = 19 x 1109051
BUT, even if with take the American date of the landing..
7-20-1969
We see that 7201969 = 19 x 379051.
Now if we get into the "crazy numerology" business we'll see more evidence:
The Chapter number (54) plus the verse number (1) plus the time format gives us:
54+1+21+7+1969=2052 = 19 x 108
From the beginning of the Koran to verse 54:1 we have 4845 verses = 19 x 255
Let's see what GOD says about it:
[54:1]: The moon has split and the hour has drawn closer
[54:2] Then they saw a great miracle; but they turned away and said, Old magic.
[54:3] They disbelieved, followed their opinions, and adhered to their old traditions
I mean I understand that we find "coincidences" in life, but how many coincidences does it take to get the hint that something bigger than us is going on?
