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Gun Control: The Conversation

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by The Hammer, Apr 10, 2021.

  1. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    Have you considered that suggesting people should have the authority to restrict others fundamental rights is what is illogical and absurd? Have you considered that you are the emotional or delusional one, especially with your rhetoric and your insistence on asserting those who disagree with you have a fetish, and let us not forget about your assertion that one's genitals are somehow the problem.
     
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  2. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    not sure if I can be appreciated here.....

    if I am assaulted.....with a weapon
    I want to return fire

    if my weapon shoots as fast as his
    I might have a chance
     
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  3. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Do you understand that this is exactly why human beings have formed governing bodies throughout human history? That we humans are social animals that cannot live, except in groups. And yet in order for us to live together in these groups, we have to be willing to forgo out desire for total freedom and autonomy to accommodate an equal degree of freedom and autonomy for those humans we are living with and among as a group. We simply cannot just do as we please, and survive. We must control and limit our behaviors for the sake of the well-being of the group of humans we are living among and with, and from whom we in tern receive that ability. And to help us do this (because we may not want to do it) we establish forms of governance to ensure that the behaviors of any one individual not be allowed to harm the others individuals in the group.

    Why do you not see the absolute necessity for behavioral governance, determined by the group, and imposed on the individuals within it, for the survival of all? How do you imagine that humans could live without this form of collective behavioral limitation?
     
  4. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    I've seen criticism, but not actual debate.
    Calling our views a "fetish" doesn't rise to the level of cogent argument.
    It suggests lack of understanding of the other side.
     
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  5. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    Interestingly enough, this exact same phenomenon is found in those who propose laws that will not change a damn thing other than make them feel they helped and then absolutely flat out refuse to explain how their completely worthless law will prevent anything and instead make bold empty false accusations that the person(s) asking them to explain how their proposed law would have made a difference thinks that if the new proposed law is not 100% effective then NO law should even be proposed.

     
    #25 Mestemia, Apr 11, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
  6. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    Fair enough.
     
  7. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    Sounds like an argument for slavery to be honest.

    No one is talking about a "desire for total freedom and autonomy."

    You seem to mischaracterize the oppositional view and then rant against that imagined argument. Are you aware of that?
     
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  8. Poisonshady313

    Poisonshady313 Well-Known Member

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    When I hear about "assault weapons bans", it makes me think of this sort of thing:

    [​IMG]

    It is the essence of doing nothing and trying to pass it off as doing something.
     
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  9. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    The link in post #25 shows that this is exactly what they are doing...
     
  10. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    I have noticed that the majority of times the term "assault weapon" is used is it referring to weapons that "look scary"...
     
  11. The Hammer

    The Hammer White Wolf - kvite ulfh
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    See my previous thread: Gun Control A History
     
  12. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    News flash, red or blue, dem or rep, larger cities have more violence.
    And what about the Wild West? Gun laws and policies back then were way more strict across the board, and proper citizens would not want the attention that carrying a firearm (especially open) would bring. And it was banned in many, many places. Laws get relaxed, guns become more common, we start to have more gun problems, we get more guns, we have more gun problems, so we get some guns and still have gun problems.
     
  13. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
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    Yes... the "older portion is just political party baiting". I was interested in the statistics and not the baiting.

    Agreed that we should check loopholes but as I said... the 10 most violent cities have the most stringent laws. So what is the real issue?
     
  14. The Hammer

    The Hammer White Wolf - kvite ulfh
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    Loopholes, gun shows, no set enforced federal standard (buy one place, bring illegally to another for instance). Mental health.
     
  15. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    How about we START by enforcing the laws already on the books?
    Then we can see what is and is not actually working.

    Personally, I see no use in passing ineffective laws that will not be enforced anyway.
    And how many laws will be passed that would be effective if only they were actually enforced?

    As it stand now, you can not say which laws currently in effect are working and which are not working simply because the current laws are not being enforced.
    Background checks are a prime example.
    Chances are if lies on the application for a background check are discovered, there will be no repercussions for lying on the background check application.
    The background check itself is worthless if the information needed for a reliable background check is not entered into the system.
    Mental illnesses that would disqualify one from legally purchasing a firearm are not currently included in background checks.
    And yes, it can be set up in a manner to not be a HIPAA violation.
    But we still need to have the information entered into the system...

    So as it stands now, background checks are broken.
    Meaning they are not nearly as effective as they already could be if the information was entered like it is supposed to be.
     
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  16. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Is it illogical for us to expect our country to be more comparable to the other Western civilizations rather than Brazil?
     
  17. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    Comparable in what ways? In homicide rate, suicide rate, or in whether a certain law is passed? Yes to the two former; no to the latter most.
     
  18. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    The term "fetish" is accurate. Do you understand what a fetish is? I do. And I have explained it on here a number of times. I also have seen no reasonable rebuttal to my use of the term in this instance. All I see instead are absurd 'counterpoints' that only support the definition of this emotional obsession with guns in the U.S. as a fetish.
     
  19. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Ah, the "nut-huh, YOU did it!" argument. AND the single instance equates to ALL instances argument, in the same post.
     
  20. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Your desire to play with guns endangers the lives and well-being of the humans you live among and with. That's why they have the right to tell you that you can't play with guns. Just like your right to drive drunk endangers the lives and well-being of the humans you share the roads with, and so they have the right to tell you that you can't drive drunk. Most of us understand this need for restricting our behaviors for the sake of our fellow humans by the age of 5 or 6. But here in the U.S., thanks to 100 years of commercial advertising and grotesque pandering by politicians, many grown ups still can't accept being told what they can and can't do by their fellow humans, through the mechanism of government. You appear, here, to be one of them.
     
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