Gun Control: The Conversation

[Curious George]

It's not my fault they have a very serious problem with violent religious fanatic, even supporting it at the state level in some instances.
This is what happened when they gave Israeli teachers guns
We shouldn't be like that. We shouldn't strive to be like that. We should strive to be better. We should at least reach the par for a 21st century Western nation. Instead, gun nuts are insisting looking at the violence of just Western nations isn't accurate or fair because we have to include Brazil. Why? It's violent, very corrupt, not a good place, and we are supposed to include it so we don't look so bad? We should be like everywhere else that doesn't know gun violence as a daily reality. Not engaging in a race to the bottom like the many Republicans, Conservatives, and the NRA want.

I think you have misunderstood. I don't think it is irrational or unreasonable to want lower death or suicide rates, or less gun violence. This is a very different question than who to include when we compare. Yes let us agree that we should strive for less violence. But let us not neglect to include other countries that have tried or enacted the reforms we are discussing. If it is the reform that will make the difference then that should be the variable we isolate.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think you have misunderstood. I don't think it is irrational or unreasonable to want lower death or suicide rates, or less gun violence. This is a very different question than who to include when we compare. Yes let us agree that we should strive for less violence. But let us not neglect to include other countries that have tried or enacted the reforms we are discussing. If it is the reform that will make the difference then that should be the variable we isolate.

Without neglecting those countries, in very many things have gotten better. Sure, they have more knife and axe attacks, but they don't kill nearly as many people. It's very rare to see a double-digit death count, which is something we routinely see here.
The regular discourse is like how America handles the discussion on socialism and socialist policies. It never goes to Scandinavia or other places that have successfully integrated a number of socialist reform, it's always Venezuela, China, or North Korea. And, with guns, it's always Brazil and bad guys shooting good guys risk free.

 

[Curious George]

Without neglecting those countries, in very many things have gotten better. Sure, they have more knife and axe attacks, but they don't kill nearly as many people. It's very rare to see a double-digit death count, which is something we routinely see here.
The regular discourse is like how America handles the discussion on socialism and socialist policies. It never goes to Scandinavia or other places that have successfully integrated a number of socialist reform, it's always Venezuela, China, or North Korea. And, with guns, it's always Brazil and bad guys shooting good guys risk free.

Well i think that is because if someone say x works then any example of x not working disproves the statement. If someone says x works under conditions y, then it is more limiting but a person must explain why condition y has a bearing on the issue.

I typically won't say remember brazil when i discuss the subject though. I am not a huge fan of comparing different countries in the first place. Each county has its own makeup and culture which can have dynamic effects on how laws play out. This doesn't mean they how different countries tackle problems isn't useful in discussing potential solutions; but, other countries should never be decisive.