McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
I notice you are well schooled at avoidance.
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Going to hell without committing a sin>
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
Thief
Rogue Theologian
and your crutch of shallow retort still hobbles you....
cambridge79
Active Member
I would love to know what god would consider sorcery considering that magic doesn't exists. Would he send someone to eternal damnation for pretending to be a mage?
Skwim
Veteran Member
Nice point.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
I noticed in the gospels occasion of which the Carpenter did refrain....
tempted to turn stone to bread.....nay.....though He hungered.
tempted to show His allegiance to heaven....nay....and did not step from that high place.
tempted to wear a crown over all kingdoms.....nay again.
but He did perform service to those in need.
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
like the one I quoted above?
Your hypocrisy is most entertaining.
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
Do you think that a child, who died one hour after birth, was not free of sin?
Ciao
- viole
Thief
Rogue Theologian
I believe we are born separate of the Spirit.....without God.
the separation is there to allow the spirit within the body to become unique.
going back to God is a different issue.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Indeed, a God should know.
However, they were still practicing magic and sorcery, real or not.
The Hebrew did many of the things modern Pagans do - including cutting magic wands from trees - and using them with incantations, - to supposedly make fertility magic, or water spring from rocks, etc.
Joseph actually says he is a sorcerer.
Magic in the Bible is a very interesting study.
Gen 44:5Is not this it in which my lord drinketh, and whereby indeed he divineth? ye have done evil in so doing.
Gen 44:15 And Joseph said unto them, What deed is this that ye have done? know ye not that such a man as I can certainly divine?
The last two words are actually nâchash, nâchash - so it probably should be
I cast divinations - or I whisper incantations, etc.
I always found it interesting that nâchash is also the hiss of a serpent = to hiss incantations.
And the Sorcerers and Diviners are related to Serpents.
Could give a different meaning to the Adam, Chav'vah, and Serpent story.
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Thief
Rogue Theologian
would this throw light unto the serpent of the garden?Indeed, a God should know.
However, they were still practicing magic and sorcery, real or not.
The Hebrew did many of the things modern Pagans do - including cutting magic wands from trees - and using them with incantations, - to supposedly make fertility magic, or water spring from rocks, etc.
Joseph actually says he is a sorcerer.
Magic in the Bible is a very interesting study.
Gen 44:5Is not this it in which my lord drinketh, and whereby indeed he divineth? ye have done evil in so doing.
Gen 44:15 And Joseph said unto them, What deed is this that ye have done? know ye not that such a man as I can certainly divine?
The last two words are actually nâchash, nâchash - so it probably should be
I cast divinations - or I whisper incantations, etc.
I always found it interesting that nâchash is also the hiss of a serpent = to hiss incantations.
And the Sorcerers and Diviners are related to Serpents.
Could give a different meaning to the Adam, Chav'vah, and Serpent story.
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I have always contended....
the devil is serpent.....not by form......but of character.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
I think the Serpent and Satan are two different characters - that later got strung together.
Satan is a servant of YHVH - his job is to be the adversary - to put stumbling blocks in our paths - to test us.
For instance his first appearance in the NT is his testing of Jesus.
Serpent on the other hand - goes to Sorcery, Magic, being wise, etc.
Gen 3:1 Now the Nachash/serpent was more Crafty/prudent/subtil than any living/beast in the land/garden which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
The Nachash tells the truth, - and YHVH confirms this in Gen 3:22. In the story we don't get death from the tree - as the Nachash said. We get death after YHVH kicks them out of the garden.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For Elohiym doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Gen 3:22 And YHVH Elohiym said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore YHVH Elohiym sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
The story says THIS NACHASH - is condemned to be a real snake slithering on his belly and tasting the air with his tongue - ALL of his life.
Gen 3:14 And said YHVH Elohiym to the NACHASH, because thou brought forth this, cursed are you of all the life, and of all animals in the land, upon thy belly shall go forth, and dust shall eat/taste all the days of your life.
So in this story, - this Nachash, - now a real snake, - is obviously not Satan.
This Nachash is associated with Sorcery - craft - and intelligence, which gets him in trouble.
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Harbinger of Darkness
New Member
What kind of Father would create an Adversary He supposedly knows will betray him? What kind of supposedly all-knowing Father would create humanity if He knows they will sin and thus condemn them to a place of eternal torture? A Father who apparently enjoys creating little beings to toy with them. In fact, depending on your translation of the Bible, Isaiah 45:7 states god created all evil. Why, unless he thoroughly enjoys playing with his playthings?
Please don't give me anything about "god's plan". It just doesn't make sense when you critically think about it, does it?
Please don't give me anything about "god's plan". It just doesn't make sense when you critically think about it, does it?
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
EDIT- Forgot to add - the Bible does not say Jesus is an actual son of God/trinity.
He is a son of God in the same sense as King David and many others. Even the Hebrew are called sons of God.
The Adversary TESTS to make sure one is ready.
The story tells us Jesus was tested, and passed the test.
He then starts on his mission.
Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted (TESTED) of the devil. (That word is actually πειράζω - peirazō - To TEST.)
Mat 4:2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
Mat 4:3 And when the tempter (TESTER) came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Mat 4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Mat 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Mat 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
Mat 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Mat 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
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Unification
Well-Known Member
All of that stuff will leave one empty, suffering, and burning inside. It is off target to the way of peace. People send and throw themselves into hell/suffering.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
I thought I should add to that - Satan as YHVH's servant, - the TESTER, - who if you are found wanting, - brings you before YHVH to accuse you.
Zec 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him.
Zec 3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
Zec 3:3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
Zec 3:4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity/sin to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
In this story above we see Satan dong his JOB. Joshua has been found guilty of sins- but for some reason YHVH chooses to take away that sin, and rebuke Satan.
In the story below - a wronged man is begging that Satan stand at the right hand - at judgment - to accuse the one that wronged him (prosecuting attorney.) This shows they had that belief.
Psa 109:5 And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love.
Psa 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
Psa 109:7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.
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Zec 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him.
Zec 3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
Zec 3:3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
Zec 3:4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity/sin to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
In this story above we see Satan dong his JOB. Joshua has been found guilty of sins- but for some reason YHVH chooses to take away that sin, and rebuke Satan.
In the story below - a wronged man is begging that Satan stand at the right hand - at judgment - to accuse the one that wronged him (prosecuting attorney.) This shows they had that belief.
Psa 109:5 And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love.
Psa 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
Psa 109:7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.
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