• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Going to hell without committing a sin>

Skwim

Veteran Member
In a DIR forum, Is Unbelief a Sin? it came to mind that there were a number of reasons god sends people to hell, and as I remembered them some had not been declared sins.

Reasons for being sent to hell
Revelation 21:8 lists; cowardliness, faithlessness, detestability, murder, sexual immorality, sorcery, idolatry, and lying.

Romans 2:6-8 lists; self-seeking and obeying unrighteousness (whatever that is)

Romans 2:12 being ignorant of god's law

So my question is, is it safe to assume all these things are sins? That being a coward or detestable are sins? That is: a sin can be considered to be anything that gets one thrown into hell?
 
Last edited:

Thana

Lady
Well we all sin, Christian, Jew and Atheist alike so I wouldn't say you can define sin as something that gets you thrown into hell otherwise we'd all be going.

Considering them as things that will be judged against you when the time comes may be more accurate.

If you continue reading Romans 2:12 and onwards it explains a lot -

"When Gentiles, who do not have the Law [since it was given only to Jews], do instinctively the things the Law requires [guided only by their conscience], they are a law to themselves, though they do not have the Law. They show that the essential requirements of the Law are written in their hearts; and their conscience [their sense of right and wrong, their moral choices] bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or perhaps defending them on that day when, as my gospel proclaims, God will judge the secrets [all the hidden thoughts and concealed sins] of men through Christ Jesus."
 

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
Nope. What ya got?
Peace be on you.
Quran:
[6:69] And when thou seest those who engage in vain discourse concerning Our Signs, then turn thou away from them until they engage in a discourse other than that. And if Satan cause thee to forget, then sit not, after recollection, with the unjust people.

[4:41] And He has already revealed to you in the Book that, when you hear the Signs of Allah being denied and mocked at, sit not with them until they engage in a talk other than that; for in that case you would be like them. Surely, Allah will assemble the hypocrites and the disbelievers in Hell, all together;

[24:20]Those who love that immorality should spread among the believers, will have a painful punishment in this world and the Hereafter. And Allah knows, and you know not.


[90:8] Does he think that no one sees him?
[90:9] Have We not given him two eyes,
[90:10] And a tongue and two lips?
[90:11] And We have pointed out to him the two highways of good and evil.
[90:12] But he attempted not the ascent courageously.
[90:13] And what should make thee know what the ascent is?
[90:14] It is the freeing of a slave.
[90:15] Or feeding in a day of hunger
[90:16] An orphan near of kin,
[90:18] Again, he should have been of those who believe and exhort one another to perseverance and exhort one another to mercy.
 
Last edited:

Skwim

Veteran Member
Well we all sin, Christian, Jew and Atheist alike so I wouldn't say you can define sin as something that gets you thrown into hell otherwise we'd all be going.

Considering them as things that will be judged against you when the time comes may be more accurate.
Good point. But some things in the Bible are pointed out as sins that are said to definitely get one thrown into hell. However, other things, not mentioned as sins, will definitely get one thrown into hell as well, cowardliness being one of them. So is it fair to conclude that these too are sins on par with the others that will definitely get one thrown into hell?
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Peace be on you.
Quran:
[6:69] And when thou seest those who engage in vain discourse concerning Our Signs, then turn thou away from them until they engage in a discourse other than that. And if Satan cause thee to forget, then sit not, after recollection, with the unjust people.

[4:41] And He has already revealed to you in the Book that, when you hear the Signs of Allah being denied and mocked at, sit not with them until they engage in a talk other than that; for in that case you would be like them. Surely, Allah will assemble the hypocrites and the disbelievers in Hell, all together;

[24:20]Those who love that immorality should spread among the believers, will have a painful punishment in this world and the Hereafter. And Allah knows, and you know not.
Nice that Allah condemns those to hell who, through no fault of their own, remain disbelievers.
 

Thana

Lady
Good point. But some things in the Bible are pointed out as sins that are said to definitely get one thrown into hell. However, other things, not mentioned as sins, will definitely get one thrown into hell as well, cowardliness being one of them. So is it fair to conclude that these too are sins on par with the others that will definitely get one thrown into hell?

I don't think sins really have much degree to them, A lie is just as much of a sin as say a murder is.
And as the bible says, It's the hearts of men that God judges. He's the one with the measuring stick I suppose, so what will definitely get you thrown into hell and what won't is up to Him.

As far as I know some cowards won't go to hell, some will. It depends on their hearts and what God sees in them.
 

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
[95:5] Surely, We have created man in the best make;
[95:6] Then, if he works iniquity, We reject him as the lowest of the low,
[95:7] Except those who believe and do good works; so for them is an unending reward.
[95:8] Then what is there to give the lie to thee after this with regard to the Judgment?
[95:9] Is not Allah the Best of judges?

Thus the Best of judges will judge the best. We cannot know why some one is disbeliever. It is between God and person.
 

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
Then I'm not impressed. 'Man' is a terrible design, and biologically outdated.
Peace be on you.
Yet with this "terrible" design human is unique to reach, study and get benefit from all other species, sent ships to others planets (or reached at moon), kept others in zoo, studies elementary particles, found electricity and radiations and uses, grown crops, fought wars, made peace, and many other things.....
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
I don't think sins really have much degree to them, A lie is just as much of a sin as say a murder is.
Boy, that's surprising. Quite unlike human ethics that does make the distinction.

As far as I know some cowards won't go to hell, some will. It depends on their hearts and what God sees in them.
Are you talking about some aspect of the cowardliness that god takes into consideration, or something aside from the cowardliness that mitigates his decision?
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
Then I'm not impressed. 'Man' is a terrible design, and biologically outdated.
Well, He spent all His money beefing up other primates so they are cool. We are what's left. :)

Peace be on you.
Yet with this "terrible" design human is unique to reach, study and get benefit from all other species, sent ships to others planets (or reached at moon), kept others in zoo, studies elementary particles, found electricity and radiations and uses, grown crops, fought wars, made peace, and many other things.....
If you asked other animals, though, we would probably be seen as hopelessly enamored of stupid things. Sending people to the moon won't pay our grocery bills, etc. There are ants who grow crops, btw. Lots of social animals go to war and make peace.
 

Intojoy

Member
In a DIR forum, Is Unbelief a Sin? it came to mind that there were a number of reasons god sends people to hell, and as I remembered them some had not been declared sins.

Reasons for being sent to hell
Revelation 21:8 lists; cowardliness, faithlessness, detestability, murder, sexual immorality, sorcery, idolatry, and lying.

Romans 2:6-8 lists; self-seeking and obeying unrighteousness (whatever that is)

Romans 2:12 being ignorant of god's law

So my question is, is it safe to assume all these things are sins? That being a coward or detestable are sins? That is: a sin can be considered to be anything that gets one thrown into hell?
Babies die because of sin. It is inherited and we don't have to commit a single sin to go to hell, we are born dead.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Babies die because of sin. It is inherited and we don't have to commit a single sin to go to hell, we are born dead.

Actually Tanakh doesn't say people inherit sin. Nor does it say people go to hell. They go to the grave/Sheol - to await the Messiah, and final judgment.

It says people are born into this world because of Adam and Chav'vah's sin, which caused humans to be born into this world which has a sin choice.

*

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

*

Later Christians come up with inherited sin, and Satan being evil, and hell.

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and through this offense death; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Fourteen says death overcomes us all because of Adam's sin, but mentions those that HAVE NOT SINNED, so obviously - they can not have been born sinners.


*
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Babies die because of sin. It is inherited and we don't have to commit a single sin to go to hell, we are born dead.
So by default of being human everyone is scheduled for the burning pit right out of the gate. And how nice it is of god to condemn those who never get the chance to redeem themselves, dead babies and the feeble minded for instance, to have a spot waiting for them he know will be filled. They don't even have to bother with ever trying to be worthy of salvation---it just ain't an option.

So god's game of Welcome to Hell ®

welcome-to-hell-10248-1.jpg


is one of watching the playing pieces try to atone for the original sin he laid on them before they reach end of their road.

..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
dropping%20off%20to%20hell_zps44uohwy6.png
 

Aquitaine

Well-Known Member
In a DIR forum, Is Unbelief a Sin? it came to mind that there were a number of reasons god sends people to hell, and as I remembered them some had not been declared sins.

Reasons for being sent to hell
Revelation 21:8 lists; cowardliness, faithlessness, detestability, murder, sexual immorality, sorcery, idolatry, and lying.

Romans 2:6-8 lists; self-seeking and obeying unrighteousness (whatever that is)

Romans 2:12 being ignorant of god's law

So my question is, is it safe to assume all these things are sins? That being a coward or detestable are sins? That is: a sin can be considered to be anything that gets one thrown into hell?
Heh, I'm so glad I don't get bogged down believing in any of this claptrap. I'm strongly convinced that the concept of Hell was an early attempt at coercing people into accepting dogma (and as a result certain social behavoural traits) based on fear of eternal punishment.
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So by default of being human everyone is scheduled for the burning pit right out of the gate. And how nice it is of god to condemn those who never get the chance to redeem themselves, dead babies and the feeble minded for instance, to have a spot waiting for them he know will be filled. They don't even have to bother with ever trying to be worthy of salvation---it just ain't an option.

The bibles words are written by domesticated primates barely smarter than the average chimpanzee -- it is obvious that every line is designed to cultivate fear and dehumanize someone. If there were a god, he would be the type of god whom manifests the oneness or nirvana -- the bliss of infinite love, and exhalation of the interconnected oneness of all beings. A God would not write anything in this book because a god is love, and loves those unlike himself and takes the responsibility of being their custodian very seriously.

These words were written by men trying to dominate other men, and that is all..
 
Top