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Going car free?

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
Went without a car when I lived in NYC. It was awesome.

Steve and I are still in the planning toward moving close by the business in the county just north of where we live right now. Kids with their friends and hubbie's daily commute into the city keeps us here for now. But within the next 3-5 years, if the business continues to grow in the way it is now, we will be moving our lives and ridding ourselves of one or both of our petroleum-burning cars.

Personally, I wonder if going diesel would be helpful, though. Especially for the times when my work needs me to travel outside the immediate vicinity. We plan on building our dance company into a touring show at some point. And I'll have to consider options. Like, traveling Willie Nelson-style. :D
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Thoughts and advice about a car-free lifestyle or finding that tree-hugger dream vehicle?
As I have never driven a car in my life, I can't really offer advice to compare the car lifestyle with the car-free lifestyle. I can, however, attest that it's perfectly easy getting around on the bus, at least where I live.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Went without a car when I lived in NYC. It was awesome.

Steve and I are still in the planning toward moving close by the business in the county just north of where we live right now. Kids with their friends and hubbie's daily commute into the city keeps us here for now. But within the next 3-5 years, if the business continues to grow in the way it is now, we will be moving our lives and ridding ourselves of one or both of our petroleum-burning cars.

Personally, I wonder if going diesel would be helpful, though. Especially for the times when my work needs me to travel outside the immediate vicinity. We plan on building our dance company into a touring show at some point. And I'll have to consider options. Like, traveling Willie Nelson-style. :D
Diesel's advantages wouldn't accrue to you if you drive only short distances.
- They have better fuel economy, but their capital & maintenance costs are higher.
So they're best suited for a whole lotta driving.
- They are more tolerant of poor fuel quality, but that's a 3rd world problem.

The car I'd love to own is....
Swine_Flu_Car.jpg
 

Drolefille

PolyPanGeekGirl
Brazilians buy cars mostly out of status considerations.

That is the only halfway rational explanation for what a car costs here. It is also easily verifiable in everyday situations.

Even a new "popular", entry-level car is worth about 28 months or 6000 hours of work by a minimum wage worker. And yet it takes considerable face for anyone of any social class to actually say that they do not desire to have a car of their own.

This inspired me to check this out:
5 Cool Cars For Under $15,000 | Bankrate.com

The first car listed is the Honda Fit, that seems "popular" and entry level-ish.

Comparatively, this is about 1 year's wages for a person on IL state minimum wage: The Fit is $14.9K, the wages are $17.1K. That doesn't count taxes and such being taken out and other withholdings but I don't know how to contrast that with Brazil anyway so whatever, rough estimate.

Someone on the Federal Minimum wage of $7.25 would just squeak it out at $15.1K

That's half the "work time" for a car as it is in Brazil. Although many, many people in the US on minimum cannot afford a new car, or a car at all particularly in the cities, which is a whole other thing.
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
Diesel's advantages wouldn't accrue to you if you drive only short distances.
- They have better fuel economy, but their capital & maintenance costs are higher.
So they're best suited for a whole lotta driving.
- They are more tolerant of poor fuel quality, but that's a 3rd world problem.

I was thinking diesel would be my choice for when I do travel well outside the immediate area. I plan on biking to work or taking the local bus transit (the county north of us has great bus routes).

The car I'd love to own is....
Swine_Flu_Car.jpg

Ooooooh, SWANKY. :yes:
 
Certainly possible if you live in a big city where public transportation is cheap, common and also punctual. It's harder in the countryside or the suburbs.

I used to live in a large city where it was more convenient, but not necessarily more economical, to take mass transportation. In NYC I hear it's quite expensive to own a car because you have to pay monthly to rent parking spots. Other than that I could do it.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
bike, public transportation, but it depends on where you live of course.
Is it possible? Sure, did it for a long time, and periodically am still in that situation sometimes so....
 

kashmir

Well-Known Member
I have no car but not by choice and have to walk where ever I need to go.
Neighbors want $10, just to start their cars, no public transportation, and taxi is a huge joke.
We have only one provider and they present themselves as gods.
Growing up I always had a car, ahhh the days of buying a $100 beater and driving it everywhere.
If it broke down, go to junk yard, buy the needed part for $20, stick it on and good as new.
Today a beater is $1000, if you are lucky.
 

work in progress

Well-Known Member
As I have never driven a car in my life, I can't really offer advice to compare the car lifestyle with the car-free lifestyle. I can, however, attest that it's perfectly easy getting around on the bus, at least where I live.
Before WWII, it was relatively easy for most people to get around by bus, train and streetcar. People who lived in more isolated rural areas years ago, had better access to inter-urban transport than they do today.

There are a multitude of reasons...mostly economic and environmental...why we have to end this strategy of making cities car-friendly rather than people-friendly. But, a switch to rail and transit...especially high speed rail like they are building in China...has to be done now, before creaking economies completely collapse and have no money left for infrastructure improvements.
 

work in progress

Well-Known Member
I have no car but not by choice and have to walk where ever I need to go.
Neighbors want $10, just to start their cars, no public transportation, and taxi is a huge joke.
We have only one provider and they present themselves as gods.
Growing up I always had a car, ahhh the days of buying a $100 beater and driving it everywhere.
If it broke down, go to junk yard, buy the needed part for $20, stick it on and good as new.
Today a beater is $1000, if you are lucky.
I don't know where you live, or what the conditions are there; but as I mentioned in the post above, in most of North America mass urban transit and rural transit came to an end after WWII, as the private automobile was being promoted.

This was not by accident, but by design - a so called Highway Lobby of car makers and oil companies conspired to rip up streetcar tracks, bankrupt passenger rail service, encourage cities to cut back on bus transit; while on the flipside - billion dollar highway systems were created under the guise of national security.

My father said he was trying to save money, rather than buy a car in the early 50's, but by the end of the decade, he had no choice other than to fork out money for a car, after the factory he was working at, stopped providing bus service for workers, and an intercity streetcar system was shut down.

Most people, starting in the 50's, 60's and 70's loved their cars and became fanatics about what they drive; but people weren't given a choice other than car ownership, because other options were removed for most people, except for those who lived in the most populated cities, which were too crowded for car culture.
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
Would do it if i could.

It would take me 2 1/2 hours each morning to get to work by public transportation, if the Bus and Train are on time(and they usually arent). Same for the way back home.

By car i only need around 45 minutes thanks to the Autobahn.


If i'd work in a different city that is around as far from here as my current workplace it wouldnt take so long if it'd be in the public transportation net that i live in. Really sucks to live on the border of one public transportation association. Doesnt really help that its the biggest of the continent.
 

work in progress

Well-Known Member
Would do it if i could.

It would take me 2 1/2 hours each morning to get to work by public transportation, if the Bus and Train are on time(and they usually arent). Same for the way back home.

By car i only need around 45 minutes thanks to the Autobahn.


If i'd work in a different city that is around as far from here as my current workplace it wouldnt take so long if it'd be in the public transportation net that i live in. Really sucks to live on the border of one public transportation association. Doesnt really help that its the biggest of the continent.

45 minute drives are tolerable! That's what the average daily drive was for me when I started at my present employer almost 25 years ago.

I read somewhere that one hour is the psychological limit that most people can accept for a daily commute. I was driving the highway for over 10 years and willing to put up with it to stay in my hometown and not have to talk my wife and sons into moving to a new place. But as more and more people kept spreading out from the Toronto region and making the drive on the highway slower, the commute started averaging more than one hour. And that's when I wanted to pull the plug and move....since I still had about 20 years left before retiring...if I was lucky enough to be among the few who's employer is still in business and offering decent working conditions that long.

There were also the high costs of living in a fairly remote suburb that required having two cars on the road, and I was starting to become more aware of environmental issues, and the huge carbon and resource impacts of car culture. But, the long daily drive....especially in the winter...that was what sealed the deal and led to packing up and moving closer to work...which turned out to be the best decision I made in recent years.
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
Namaste

I love the freedom of having a "personal chariot" (verse a bunch of benches on a big chariot where you have to wait at some tiny stand to first get on the big chariot, like the bus idea), you get in a personal chariot without waiting and go any of a multitude of directions.

Oddly though, I do like trains and rocket trains and airplanes and such. I like taxis too. But the bus idea, while I do not totally object, is lower on the rug unless it is one of those "tourist buses".

But, while I would find it hard to ever "give up my chariot", the mechanics of the chariot, when improvements are made that benefit the environment, that I like too. For example, I hope the electric car or some alternative is truly a benefit and success (but is it as environmental as they say? Are you sure? ). I even bought stock in Tesla Motors when it was very cheap, and now it is $182 dollars a share so I made good money. Tesla makes some hot electric cars, I love them.

As far as NOT using any kind of chariot, yes I once did an experiment, monitored by many of my rather eccentric friends, decades ago (before marriage) where I lived without (well didn't use - all was there a key or switch away but didn't "turn it over" or on) a car, electricty, heat, nothing. I walked a LONG distance to work instead of driving my 1968 Firebird 400 V8 with McCleod clutch and four barrel with four speed stick. I purposely slept in a sleeping bag on the patio balcony each night, looking up at the slow moving satellites as they followed their steady path across space. Inside at night, I would only burn candles for light. I ate raw vegies, did not use a stove. Bottled water was my only luxury. The TV boob tube was right there, but I never would turn it on. When my friends came over for fun and company, knowing full well my experiment, even on "Super Bowl Sunday" they came, we would simply tell stories, including spookie stuff. Or play the guitar and sing "bhajans". It even got more goofy, when someone suggested I no longer use the toilet, but instead go out in nature. I almost thought to do that, but the furthest I went was to pass urine in a bottle if nighttime, and then find a place "in nature" to pour it out. But I didn't go very far with that, and so ...

The entire experiment blew up in my face if you will, when one day there were about five friends over and it was dark early (Winter time), cold. I had the candles burning as usual.

Actually we were having a grand old time, but I had been lazy with one of the big cans I was using to burn those "camp candles" in. The wax, a lot of it, had accumulated on the bottom of the big can over time. It was also turning sort of greasy.

So like we are going from a living room to a bedroom with another candle to get another chair to bring into the livingroom since someone was sick of sitting on the floor, when suddenly some fantastic spontaneuus combustion of flame shot up from the can burning like a firework up and continously licking towards the ceiling and everyone is shouting you know what, and like someone grabs a fire extinguisher from the kitchen and "rustic be damned" and put out this dancing devil.

Yes I almost burnt the place down. What an idiot I am.

So yes, once I lived without using my car, and to the next level. But you still need to mind your P's and Q's or you may end up polluting the air with burnt rubber, plastics, wood, glues, and God knows what toxins and other living beings as everything burns down to ashes.

For some reason, guys when they go jungle, they still cannot stop lighting fires. I guess that is just what we do.

Burning man.

Om Namah Shivaya
 
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atanu

Member
Premium Member
I belong to Delhi, where in childhood days, 30-40 years ago, it used to take 10 -15 minutes by taxi or by bus to travel 15 kilometres. We had no car then.

Then I went out of Delhi and travelled through many parts of India, mostly in small cities. I got a car very early, compared to India standard. I enjoyed it as a status symbol, its utility, and the joy it gave on long open drives.

Then about 6 years back I came back to Delhi. And now it takes me 1 hour to navigate that span which used to take 15 minutes. And there is no joy left and on the contrary, the daily drive to office and home is the most difficult part of my life. Perhaps, this is progress and development.

india_traffic0109.jpg
 

omnifarious

Acolyte of Revelation
I feel there is an ethical imperative to avoid owning one. Additionally, owning a car is just a pain, especially financially. I don't want to deal with it.

Same here.

Thoughts and advice about a car-free lifestyle or finding that tree-hugger dream vehicle?

I take the bus or train, otherwise I'd use a bike. Petitioning for the expansion of city bike lanes seems like the next step.
 

MD

qualiaphile
I have very briefly owned a car. Most of my life have taken public transportation, walked or biked.

It can be pretty annoying sometimes and I'm buying a car next year.
 

Jake1001

Computer Simulator
If your choices were either going car free, or getting a Tesla Roadster Sport, can you guess which I would choose ??
 

AmyintheBibleBelt

Active Member
Hey all,

I was wondering if any of you have experience living a car-free lifestyle. It's something I've been seriously considering for many reasons, environmental ones first and foremost. If you live in an area where having a car is not required for your survival, I feel there is an ethical imperative to avoid owning one. Additionally, owning a car is just a pain, especially financially. I don't want to deal with it.

Or of I do want to deal with it, I want the kind of vehicle we should all be bloody driving in the 21st century. Enough with these gigantic, ancestor-burning monstrosities! I just need something to move me. What I want is something like this or this - a simple, modest vehicle with a little bit of cargo room that runs full electric and has a decent range. You'd think that these things would be more readily available by now at a reasonable consumer price point. A big part of me wants to refuse to purchase a car unless I can get a full electric or what I actually want - which is the above. Unless people put their foot down and demand change, it isn't going to happen.

Thoughts and advice about a car-free lifestyle or finding that tree-hugger dream vehicle?
Public transportation is not prevalent in most places. Average commuye to work in US surburbia, 30 minutes in a car. Impoissible on bike or foot.
 
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